!! I Cringe at my fellow travellers !!

[fletch1027]

The real crazy thing when you think about it is people stress about $12 a day in regards to tipping, and that amount is split amoung several people.

 

Think about what on a cruise you spend in the neighborhood of $12 on without thinking too much about it:

 

- a day of parking

- a frozen drink

- 10% of a Labadee zipline

- 2-3 cupcakes

- half of a 8x10 photo

 

The list goes on. My point is that the tips should be an assumed amount as the cost of the cruise.

 

Unfortunately the lines will probably never embed this into the price because it helps them make the "base" price look lower...

 

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

[PORT ROYAL]

Sorry to deviate slightly from the original post.

But here is another cringe.

My BIL and his Wife always pack a certain T-shirt when cruising on RCL.

It is the Wish Charity one, and they take it out of a deck bag to do the round-the-deck walk, just to speak with the Captain and Officers in an attempt to receive an invite to dine.

This is just wrong on so many levels.

My DW and I always buy a new T to do the walk, but cringe just seeing them perform.

Bye the bye, they also stiff.

[TC1957]

Any service industry professional worth their salt will probably tell you the worst thing for them is mandatory tipping. Most Americans I know are excellent tippers. However, when they (and I) look at a bill and see that the tip has already been added that is all they get 99% of the time.

 

My brother and a friend worked as waiters for years and always said that large parties at nicer establishments typically tipped 20-25% when given the option. One changed to adding 18% and putting a line for "Additional Gratuities" and that line was rarely used. The result was a loss of imcome for him.

[PerferWarmWeather]

Ideally if RCCL were to pay their people a proper salary most would gladly give a tip for great service without even batting an eye, but RCCL chooses to do things the way they do, thus the many pages of discussions.:rolleyes:

[masspector]

Playing devil's advocate here, please do not flame me

 

IF they have never cruised before this may be about their expectation. Being from Europe they expect service to be included not an extra tip.

 

This brings up another point, if the tip was auto and they have never cruised how did they find out that they can remove it? I would have just said that it is a mandatory fee.

 

Look at it another way. As Americans would you expect to have to tip your flight attendant on an airline flight? No. Even though this is a customer service job, passengers are not expected to tip. Just as in Europe service is included and people tip a little extra, some Americans do not know this and tip 15-20% on top of the service charge. Do European waiters etc not take this extra money? In fact in the more touristy areas they know this and encourage Americans to tip even though they know they are getting the service charge too.

[tserface]

Well, actually it could be used as either (people are often called "stiffs",), but either way it's still a word and, from my perspective, it's used in this context to be condescending. I don't think I've heard it used here as a compliment.

 

And technically, as long as RCI allows people to adjust the gratuities and calls them suggested (implying optional), they may be considered "stiffing" in someone's opinion, but certainly not RCI's and not based on any rules (except in someone's imagination).

 

Also, I believe, RCI tries really hard to not consider this part of the cruise cost. I think they do that intentionally in an effort to compete by making the initial cost look less. They are changing that with features like MTD that require "pre-paid" gratuities months in advance. If they can make it look optional there must be some cost/tax/whatever benefit to them in addition to being able to quote lower prices (with this being one of the add-ons).

 

Many of us consider "tips" as part of the cost and understand the system and want to look out for the staff, but, technically, RCI does not care enough to change it. I can totally understand how it causes confusion to so many.

 

But, I guess I'm just one of those hopeful people who believes it's possible to discuss a topic without resorting to insults. Especially, when people have no idea what someone else is really doing. It could be that OP's family ends up tipping more than the originally suggested amounts after they receive great service (the definition of tip). I still remember my first cruise. Frankly, I miss walking around with envelopes and giving them to the staff on the last day. I play the current cruise game, but I do miss it. It was a joy thanking them and feeling like you were rewarding them. Now it is just innocuous (yeah, I know you can give extra)... Regardless, OP's family may end up being more generous than someone who just pays the suggest amounts, rather than the pretty awful things they've been called in this thread. That first cruise can be a magical life-changing experience.

 

Tom

 

The word Stiff is a verb not a Noun;)

[tserface]

Good example using airline attendants. I'd never thought of tipping them. Even when having the unlikely pleasure of going first class. I had an instance the other day where I actually tipped a gas station guy. He came our, pumped my gas, cleaned front and back windows, and was super friendly. I couldn't help myself, and, as you say, he didn't refuse the extra couple of bucks.

 

I don't know what makes one service industry tip-worthy and another not. Many of us fly to our cruises and I wonder what the demographic is of people who tip on planes. I've never seen anyone do it. Yet on a cruise ship it is so expected that people get angry at each other if someone does it later in the cruise rather than before the service is rendered.

 

I know some friends who are airline attendants (not sure what they are called to be PC these days) and they are not over paid so far as I can tell. Could be better than a cruise room attendant though.

 

Tom

 

Playing devil's advocate here, please do not flame me

 

IF they have never cruised before this may be about their expectation. Being from Europe they expect service to be included not an extra tip.

 

This brings up another point, if the tip was auto and they have never cruised how did they find out that they can remove it? I would have just said that it is a mandatory fee.

 

Look at it another way. As Americans would you expect to have to tip your flight attendant on an airline flight? No. Even though this is a customer service job, passengers are not expected to tip. Just as in Europe service is included and people tip a little extra, some Americans do not know this and tip 15-20% on top of the service charge. Do European waiters etc not take this extra money? In fact in the more touristy areas they know this and encourage Americans to tip even though they know they are getting the service charge too.

[Hlitner]

It is kind of interesting to look at some total cost comparisons. Mass market lines line RCI, HAL, etc. do market low prices (they will often advertise the cheapest inside cabin price) and always exclude "tips" from their marketing. Compare an ultra-luxury line like Regent to RCI. Consider that on the ultra luxury line you have all your drinks (including many wines) included, no tipping, some excursions often included, and they are selling you a large (some might call it a suite) outside cabin with balcony. Now take RCI, price out a large outside balcony cabin, add the cost of a decent drink package (over $50 a day) tips, and all the other nickel and diming. Now consider that the ultra luxury line has much better cuisine, great space ratios (you never have to fight for a deck chair), open dining, etc. In the final analysis, if you get a good deal on one of the ultra luxury lines you might actually be paying not much more then the mass market line...and you are going to get a much more upscale experience.

 

Hank

[navybankerteacher]

Good example using airline attendants. I'd never thought of tipping them. Even when having the unlikely pleasure of going first class. I had an instance the other day where I actually tipped a gas station guy. He came our, pumped my gas, cleaned front and back windows, and was super friendly. I couldn't help myself, and, as you say, he didn't refuse the extra couple of bucks.

 

I don't know what makes one service industry tip-worthy and another not. Many of us fly to our cruises and I wonder what the demographic is of people who tip on planes. I've never seen anyone do it. Yet on a cruise ship it is so expected that people get angry at each other if someone does it later in the cruise rather than before the service is rendered.

 

I know some friends who are airline attendants (not sure what they are called to be PC these days) and they are not over paid so far as I can tell. Could be better than a cruise room attendant though.

 

Tom

The fact is: people are made aware that the service charge which cruise lines apply is a major part of the staff's compensation - while no such suggestion is made in the case of flight attendants.

 

There is no logical comparison.

 

Whether tipping is normal "in your culture" or not, only a self-absorbed lout would choose to enter another culture and insist that his way trumps all.

 

If someone has the ability to remove tips, he can do so - but he should not attempt to justify screwing people who make his cruise enjoyable by talking about his "culture".

 

To rephrase an old adage: If you do not want to do as Romans do, stay the h**l out of Rome.

[tserface]

Of course, you have no way to know whether he is "screwing" people or not. I'm not trying to justify anyone's actions. I can just understand how it could be confusing to people (like OP's family) who are not seasoned cruisers.

 

I've never cruised out of Rome. I'm not even sure you can do that :rolleyes:, but I'd sure like to visit Rome some day.

 

Tom

 

 

If someone has the ability to remove tips, he can do so - but he should not attempt to justify screwing people who make his cruise enjoyable by talking about his "culture".

 

To rephrase an old adage: If you do not want to do as Romans do, stay the h**l out of Rome.

[jocap]

There's been a lot of this "culture" mentioned.

How are the people involved to know that a line called both Royal and Caribbean is US owned?

I heard this argument on board an NCL ship sailing from the UK, when many Brits queued up to remove grats., because they believed the line to be owned by Norway, and therefore wouldn't have had much of a tipping culture.

Or perhaps they've spoken to people who have sailed on P&O, Fred or Thomson, where grats are small or included.

It's not a "culture" thing so much as a misunderstanding of which line does what....and also a simple belief that the whole world probably has to pay a living wage to everyone, regardless of their job, just because their country does that.

[time4u2go]

The fact is: people are made aware that the service charge which cruise lines apply is a major part of the staff's compensation - while no such suggestion is made in the case of flight attendants.

 

There is no logical comparison.

 

Whether tipping is normal "in your culture" or not, only a self-absorbed lout would choose to enter another culture and insist that his way trumps all.

 

If someone has the ability to remove tips, he can do so - but he should not attempt to justify screwing people who make his cruise enjoyable by talking about his "culture".

 

To rephrase an old adage: If you do not want to do as Romans do, stay the h**l out of Rome.

How are people made aware of this? Is it stated somewhere along the way when purchasing a cruise ticket?

[tserface]

I think a lot of Americans cruise (myself included) so they think their "culture" trumps everyone else's.

 

I guess one fact is, RCI does suggest that people pay the suggested tips regardless of what country they are from, but they stop short of making it a requirement so it's still left up to the discretion of the customer. There are many who think that if you don't do what they suggest with regards to fashion, tipping, etc. you must be off the rails, but I figure if RCI was admant about it they wouldn't call it a suggestion so people are left the freedom to interpret their suggests as they so choose.

 

I follow the guidelines and try to be a good citizen, but, the point I'm trying to make is I don't think name calling is a great way to convince someone to your point of view. Especially, when they topic and rules are so nebulously defined.

 

Tom

 

There's been a lot of this "culture" mentioned.

How are the people involved to know that a line called both Royal and Caribbean is US owned?

I heard this argument on board an NCL ship sailing from the UK, when many Brits queued up to remove grats., because they believed the line to be owned by Norway, and therefore wouldn't have had much of a tipping culture.

Or perhaps they've spoken to people who have sailed on P&O, Fred or Thomson, where grats are small or included.

It's not a "culture" thing so much as a misunderstanding of which line does what....and also a simple belief that the whole world probably has to pay a living wage to everyone, regardless of their job, just because their country does that.

[masspector]

The fact is: people are made aware that the service charge which cruise lines apply is a major part of the staff's compensation - while no such suggestion is made in the case of flight attendants.

 

There is no logical comparison.

 

Whether tipping is normal "in your culture" or not, only a self-absorbed lout would choose to enter another culture and insist that his way trumps all.

 

If someone has the ability to remove tips, he can do so - but he should not attempt to justify screwing people who make his cruise enjoyable by talking about his "culture".

 

To rephrase an old adage: If you do not want to do as Romans do, stay the h**l out of Rome.

 

Then either include it in the cruise fare or make it trully voluntary for good service like a restaurant in the US. I for one have never walked into a restaurant in the US that automatically charged me a tip on a table for two. I got to decide based on the service. That is the point, a reward for good service. Not a mandatory fee.

[DirtyDawg]

The fact is: people are made aware that the service charge which cruise lines apply is a major part of the staff's compensation - while no such suggestion is made in the case of flight attendants.

 

There is no logical comparison.

 

Whether tipping is normal "in your culture" or not, only a self-absorbed lout would choose to enter another culture and insist that his way trumps all.

 

If someone has the ability to remove tips, he can do so - but he should not attempt to justify screwing people who make his cruise enjoyable by talking about his "culture".

 

To rephrase an old adage: If you do not want to do as Romans do, stay the h**l out of Rome.

 

I'm with the other posters on this. People are not made aware that this is 1) a service charge - it's advertised as a gratuity, and 2) that it is a major part of the compensation. Unless of course I've missed the section in the cruise contracts or the in Q & A section of the cruise line web sites about not having to adhere to U.S labor laws.;)

 

The whole mass market cruise industry could clear this issue up once and for all by either actually making these fees a true mandatory service charge or by increasing the wages of their crews (and the base fares that they charge.) BTW I'm not wagering that either will happen anytime soon.

 

So as long as the cruise lines insist these fees are voluntary some people will choose to not pay them and these endless debates will go on, and on, and on............:(

Edited February 27, 2014 by DirtyDawg

[navybankerteacher]

Then either include it in the cruise fare or make it trully voluntary for good service like a restaurant in the US. I for one have never walked into a restaurant in the US that automatically charged me a tip on a table for two. I got to decide based on the service. That is the point, a reward for good service. Not a mandatory fee.

 

This whole thread is about removing the service charge --- in what conceivable way is a removable service charge a "mandatory fee"? If, in fact, you find the service to be unsatisfactory you do have the option to reduce or remove the service charge.

 

I find it difficult to believe that people are going to sign up to pay many hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars for a cruise and not try to find out what is covered and what is not covered by the fare they pay. Sure, the fact and details of the service charges are not in bold face type surrounding the published fare -- but it is made amply clear in the information provided.

[Artemis908]

Good example using airline attendants. I'd never thought of tipping them. Even when having the unlikely pleasure of going first class. I had an instance the other day where I actually tipped a gas station guy. He came our, pumped my gas, cleaned front and back windows, and was super friendly. I couldn't help myself, and, as you say, he didn't refuse the extra couple of bucks.

 

I don't know what makes one service industry tip-worthy and another not. Many of us fly to our cruises and I wonder what the demographic is of people who tip on planes. I've never seen anyone do it. Yet on a cruise ship it is so expected that people get angry at each other if someone does it later in the cruise rather than before the service is rendered.

 

I know some friends who are airline attendants (not sure what they are called to be PC these days) and they are not over paid so far as I can tell. Could be better than a cruise room attendant though.

 

Tom

 

A flight attendant is there for your safety and although he or she may serve you, that is not their real function, especially on US-based airlines.

 

There are a lot of comparisons you could make, who do you and don't you tip? Your hair stylist? The repair man? The food delivery person? The cashier at Boston Market? The hotel room maid? The cleaning person at your home? The dog groomer?

 

The list just goes on and on... I typically try to go off of whatever I believe the person's base pay is... like waiters get paid below minimum wage. I also don't pay the owner.

 

I am not really clear though how much they get paid on the ship and how room/board/food is handled.

[time4u2go]

This whole thread is about removing the service charge --- in what conceivable way is a removable service charge a "mandatory fee"? If, in fact, you find the service to be unsatisfactory you do have the option to reduce or remove the service charge.

 

I find it difficult to believe that people are going to sign up to pay many hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars for a cruise and not try to find out what is covered and what is not covered by the fare they pay. Sure, the fact and details of the service charges are not in bold face type surrounding the published fare -- but it is made amply clear in the information provided.

Really? Where?

Edited February 27, 2014 by time4u2go

[Ripley's Lady]

Apparently a Problem shared is a problem halved ??

 

We will be travelling in May on INDY , 6th Cruise , 2nd with RCCL .

 

HOWEVER

 

A family that is cruising with us ( never cruised before ) are planning on immediately taking their Auto Grats on as they 'technically don't have to pay them so why would you ?'

 

Makes me cringe , anyone ever been in this situation before , Iv had may say but it has little effect ..... Makes Me Cringe !

 

Sorry to hear your friends do not understand the importance of tips to the staff. I have seen hard working cruise staff in tears when they were denied their tips just before Christmas on TA's.

 

What you might do is quietly model the correct gratefulness to staff.

For instance, let your friends SEE you handing a dollar or two in US currency to bar staff and/or waiters in the Windjammer. When they notice that a waiter runs across the dining room to help you and calls you by name.... the point will be gracefully made. Remember, you are responsible for your actions and attitudes - not theirs!.

 

Let me share a story: My Scottish grandfather used to tell me stories of the sea and sailings by ship.

 

On his first passage from the UK to New York on a Cunard ship, an older friend told him: "Willie, to ensure good service, tip your stateroom attendant and dining staff well on the first night with the words: I want you to have this now, just in case I miss seeing you at the end of the sailing." You must believe, he always had GREAT onboard service.

 

Here's another way to show your friends your own gratefulness:

On a Canada New England cruise, I handed my stateroom attendant some blue and purple Canadian cash before arriving in the port of Halifax. I told her it was the correct currency for Canada and it would be enough for some shopping or a meal and drinks in port. She was delighted and showed me a Tshirt she bought! She said I will remember you when I wear it.

 

Don't stress your friends attitude. If it is their first cruise, just model a different sort of behaviour without lecturing them. Good luck!! Have a wonderful cruise!!

[YubaSutter]

 

The list just goes on and on... I typically try to go off of whatever I believe the person's base pay is... like waiters get paid below minimum wage. I also don't pay the owner.

 

.

 

Do you still tip the dockside porters? Their base pay is between $40-$50/hr.

[PerferWarmWeather]

I tipped the blackjack dealer at the casino on my last cruise.:D

[Artemis908]

Do you still tip the dockside porters? Their base pay is between $40-$50/hr.

 

Holy @#$%, really?!? You know... I am honestly afraid NOT to tip them because they are handling something so important to me and could easily "lose" it...

[DrD]

Then either include it in the cruise fare or make it trully voluntary for good service like a restaurant in the US. I for one have never walked into a restaurant in the US that automatically charged me a tip on a table for two. I got to decide based on the service. That is the point, a reward for good service. Not a mandatory fee.

 

I'm sure this is what they want to do and are trying to do, but as I said in an earlier post there's great competition amongst lines on price, and if some lines publish a cheaper price and then later add tips, all the lines will have to also to avoid being undercut.

 

I've always seen it that way, as an expected expense. The "tip" is the money I give them above that, if they deserve it. Which they have on all 14 of my cruises.

[Mrsdigi]

I've personally seen a list on a cart in the hallway showing who has paid grats. I've also had a table seating list emailed to me from a dining room showing names of everyone at the table, where they are from, how old they are:eek: and whether auto grats were paid. The staff know.

 

 

Hold the phone! they put AGES on stuff? Dude, that's rude!! :)

[The Sunset Glow]

Hold the phone! they put AGES on stuff? Dude, that's rude!! :)

 

 

I know! I was shocked when I saw that. But it was there!

 

 

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