Any update on Bali port closing

[tomcruiser1234]

The November 23 cruise via Bali was cancelled and diverted to Vietnam

 

We are traveling on the January 18 cruise on millenium from singapore Bali Komodo.

 

No information from Celebrity why it was cancelled and what will happen on the jan 4 or 18 sailings. Anybody got info? Thx

[Beanb41]

My understanding about that Bali visit being cancelled was because the port fees for landing passengers suddenly increased beyond a level the Cruise line was prepared to pay. Seems local officials were running some sort of extortion racket

[tomcruiser1234]

My understanding about that Bali visit being cancelled was because the port fees for landing passengers suddenly increased beyond a level the Cruise line was prepared to pay. Seems local officials were running some sort of extortion racket

 

 

That stinks.... There is a January 4 and 18 that also go to Bali... Were on the January 18... Hope this gets resolved., we booked this cruise to be in Bali.

[loeb]

We also booked the Jan 18th cruise primarily to go to Bali and Komodo Island. We have already been on a cruise to Bangkok and Ho Chi Min.

 

Hopefully by January this will be resolved.

[hamrag]

That stinks.... There is a January 4 and 18 that also go to Bali... Were on the January 18... Hope this gets resolved., we booked this cruise to be in Bali.

 

The silence from X is deafening....that is definitely a cause for concern!

[Beanb41]

Some back ground info

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2130605

[chrismakris]

I would rather silence.

 

As far as their concerned right now everything is still a go and that's how you need to view it as well. That doesn't mean you shouldn't do some research into other ports in the area that Celebrity might have to divert to if whatever disagreement that the parties have can't be resolved.

 

Be prepared so when everyone else is up in arms because of a last minute change, you can sit back and make the decisions quickly because of it.

[need2bespoiled]

My understanding about that Bali visit being cancelled was because the port fees for landing passengers suddenly increased beyond a level the Cruise line was prepared to pay. Seems local officials were running some sort of extortion racket

 

Unless you can quote a source, it seems to me you are purely guessing it is regarding port fees. It could be any number of things, being onboard, talking to the officers (who I believe don't know themselves) and understanding the corruption that is prevalent throughout much of Asia, it could be any number of things, or none of them.

 

While the real reason may come out eventually, I doubt it will come from Celebrity, as it is not in their best interest to say, while continuing to negotiate for the upcoming cruises to safely land.

 

Being in Bali for the last 2.5 days, my advice is to not stay only in the area the ship tenders to, but go inland some and leave Kuta and other developed areas a bit to see more of Bali.

 

Happy sailing,

Jenna

[LancashireCruisers]

Myself and my mother are also concerned about the Bali visit as we have booked on 18 January sailing to visit friends who live in Bali.

 

Spoke to Celebrity office yesterday who said the dispute was around Bali port officials demanding cash from the company on arrival at the port and Celebrity refusing to pay. Also may not allow guests on tenders or allow the ship to depart.

 

I have received an email today from Celebrity stating - "they are hopeful that the issues will be resolved in a timely manner. As sail date approaches continue to monitor Celebrity website".

[Hlitner]

There are parts of the world where bribing officials is the normal way of doing business. What we call "extortion" they call normal. But the US Code (federal law) prohibits a US Corporation from paying bribes to foreign governments. It is a felony, and can cause lots of problems for a corporation's CEO and board. We ran into a similar situation about 2 years ago when the HAL Prinsendam was docked at the port of Sous in Tunisia. When it came time to leave the port, the local authorities demanded a bribe in order to clear the ship for departure. HAL refused to pay and our ship was held hostage for more then 2 hours. It was only when the Captain made it clear that we would not pay, and that our next port (Gabes, Tunisia) would have to be skipped (it was our next port) if they did not release our ship...that the authorities relented and allowed us to depart.

 

Hank

[ghstudio]

I don't think celebrity is a us corporation, so those laws would not apply to them.

 

 

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[omeinv]

I don't think celebrity is a us corporation, so those laws would not apply to them.

 

 

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It absolutely is a US corporation. Look at the board of directors, where they hold their meetings, and the fact it is headquartered in Miami, FL. The ships are foreign flagged, but RCCL is a US corporation for the purposes of this law. Even a company with no US presence, other than it's stock being traded on a US exchange is subject to this law.

 

"An Overview

 

The Foreign Corrupt Practices Act of 1977, as amended, 15 U.S.C. §§ 78dd-1, et seq. ("FCPA"), was enacted for the purpose of making it unlawful for certain classes of persons and entities to make payments to foreign government officials to assist in obtaining or retaining business. Specifically, the anti-bribery provisions of the FCPA prohibit the willful use of the mails or any means of instrumentality of interstate commerce corruptly in furtherance of any offer, payment, promise to pay, or authorization of the payment of money or anything of value to any person, while knowing that all or a portion of such money or thing of value will be offered, given or promised, directly or indirectly, to a foreign official to influence the foreign official in his or her official capacity, induce the foreign official to do or omit to do an act in violation of his or her lawful duty, or to secure any improper advantage in order to assist in obtaining or retaining business for or with, or directing business to, any person.

 

Since 1977, the anti-bribery provisions of the FCPA have applied to all U.S. persons and certain foreign issuers of securities. With the enactment of certain amendments in 1998, the anti-bribery provisions of the FCPA now also apply to foreign firms and persons who cause, directly or through agents, an act in furtherance of such a corrupt payment to take place within the territory of the United States.

 

 

The Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (FCPA) also requires companies whose securities are listed in the United States to meet its accounting provisions. See 15 U.S.C. § 78m. These accounting provisions, which were designed to operate in tandem with the anti-bribery provisions of the FCPA, require corporations covered by the provisions to (a) make and keep books and records that accurately and fairly reflect the transactions of the corporation and (b) devise and maintain an adequate system of internal accounting controls."

http://www.justice.gov/criminal/fraud/fcpa/

 

So in short,

 

If the Captain of the ship calls Miami, and says "They want a $1.00 bribe to let us sail", and the person in Miami speaks the word "pay" into the telephone, or types it in an email; the law has been violated.

 

Harris

Denver, CO

Edited December 2, 2014 by omeinv

[cruisestitch]

From Wikipedia -- I would say that it's pretty clear that it is a US based corporation --

 

Celebrity Cruises is a cruise line which was founded in 1988 by the Greece-based Chandris Group[2] In 1997, Celebrity Cruises Ltd. merged with Royal Caribbean International to become Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd., which operates Celebrity, Royal Caribbean International, Azamara Club Cruises, Pullmantur Cruises and CDF Croisieres de France. The signature "Χ" displayed on the funnel of Celebrity ships is the Greek letter chi, for "Chandris".[3][4] The company has its headquarters in Miami, Florida.[5]

 

And of course RCCL is traded on the US Stock Exchange, if that means anything.

[ghstudio]

From Wikipedia -- I would say that it's pretty clear that it is a US based corporation --

 

 

 

Celebrity Cruises is a cruise line which was founded in 1988 by the Greece-based Chandris Group[2] In 1997, Celebrity Cruises Ltd. merged with Royal Caribbean International to become Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd., which operates Celebrity, Royal Caribbean International, Azamara Club Cruises, Pullmantur Cruises and CDF Croisieres de France. The signature "Χ" displayed on the funnel of Celebrity ships is the Greek letter chi, for "Chandris".[3][4] The company has its headquarters in Miami, Florida.[5]

 

 

 

And of course RCCL is traded on the US Stock Exchange, if that means anything.

 

 

 

 

Don't confuse head office location with where the company is located. Don't confuse stock exchange with where the company is located. Celebrity is subject to only those U.S. laws that apply to any non us company.

 

 

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[WestLakeGirl]

If not a US corporation, then where?

[omeinv]

Don't confuse head office location with where the company is located. Don't confuse stock exchange with where the company is located. Celebrity is subject to only those U.S. laws that apply to any non us company.

 

 

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RCCL is absolutely a US company:

 

Royal Caribbean International, owned by Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd., is a cruise line brand founded in Norway and based in Miami, Florida in the United States of America. As of May 2012, with 21 ships in service, it controls a 17 percent share of the world cruise market.[2] All ships under the Royal Caribbean International brand have had names ending in "of the Seas" since 1991. Sister brands owned by Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd. are Celebrity Cruises, Azamara Cruises, Pullmantur Cruises and CDF Croisières de France.

 

Again, the law would apply in any event, but RCCL is a US company. The fact the ships are flagged in other countries is immaterial

 

Harris

Denver, CO

[c-legs]

The silence from X is deafening....that is definitely a cause for concern!

== X == is far from silent on this. They have made the decision and issued a detailled press release outlining the various facts and reasons.

It was published here in a different thread.

I would also not be surprised if other lines calling on Bali follow similar steps.

Cheers

[ghstudio]

Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd. is a Norwegian / American global cruise company incorporated in Liberia and based in Miami, Florida.

 

"Like other U.S. based cruise lines, Royal Caribbean registered its business overseas (Liberia) and flagged its cruise ships in foreign countries (Liberia, Bahamas) in order to avoid paying U.S. taxes. Although it collects between $5 and $6 billion a year from U.S. tax-paying citizens, Royal Caribbean does not pay U.S. taxes by virtue of its foreign corporate citizenship. Its crew members are 99% non-U.S. citizens".

 

Google "royal caribbean liberia". Look for their 10K report which has a complete section on taxation and where the holding company and each of it's subsidiaries (brands) is registered.

 

Since I'm not a lawyer, I don't know which laws apply to a company incorporated in liberia and which don't. I would not just assume that the US laws about paying bribes applies.

Edited December 3, 2014 by ghstudio

[C-Dragons]

My question/concern would be, going forward, will this issue ever be resolved since this is a standard Indonesian practice. We are also booked on a cruise for 2016 and the stop in Bali was a primary reason for booking. I wonder if X will eventually just drop Bali as a port because they can't change cultural behaviour.

[need2bespoiled]

Crew onboard do not know the status of the upcoming Bali stops. I hope it works out for everyone, at least for Komodo. If you get to Bali be sure to head inland and ideally book a hotel to get the best experience to avoid the tendering situation which isn't great either (as crew has told us).

 

Happy sailing,

Jenna

 

 

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[Merriem]

I am sorry for so many disappointed people, but we were there some years ago, and I don't think you are missing much. It is hot, and the people totally pester you to buy something.

 

We were tendered, and stayed on the ship the second day.

[VK3DQ]

Hello Folks

 

The Australian Government suggests

 

We advise you to exercise a high degree of caution in Indonesia, including Bali, at this time due to the high threat of terrorist attack. You should also be aware of the severe penalties for narcotics offences, including the death penalty; some specific health risks; and risks associated with natural disasters.

 

 

You can find the rest here http://www.smartraveller.gov.au/zw-cgi/view/Advice/Indonesia

 

 

Not a safe place to visit

 

 

Regards

John

[Merriem]

Thank you for the post. When we were there on Royal Caribbean they had retired British Marines as guards on the ship and all the time sailing in Indonesia they had outside lights shining into the water. It is not a safe place at all. Would never go back.

[VK3DQ]

Thank you for the post. When we were there on Royal Caribbean they had retired British Marines as guards on the ship and all the time sailing in Indonesia they had outside lights shining into the water. It is not a safe place at all. Would never go back.

 

Hello Merriem

 

 

People ignore valid government warnings and then cry when they get into trouble

 

The Australian Government says:

 

Visitors to Indonesia, particularly to tourist locations such as Bali and Lombok, should be aware of the specific risks from crime, and from drink-spiking and consumption of alcohol adulterated with harmful substances such as methanol. Tourists may also be exposed to scams and credit card/ATM fraud. There has been an increase in reports of violent crime in Bali. Be aware of your surroundings and conscious of the potential risks of crime (see under

Safety and security for more information).

 

Petty crime, such as opportunistic theft, is common in Indonesia. Thieves on motorcycles may snatch handbags and backpacks from pedestrians. Tourists may be exposed to scams and confidence tricks in Indonesia. Legal disputes are common regarding the purchase of real estate including land, houses, holiday clubs and time share schemes.

 

 

Visit Australia and New Zealand and the Pacific Islands all nice peaceful places where visitors are welcome .....:D

[sandyss]

We seem to have gotten somewhat off topic. The OP asked for ANY UPDATE ON BALI PORT CLOSING - not on whether or not you recommend that port.

 

Does anyone know the status of the negotiations between Celebrity and the Indonesian authorities?