Deceptive Advertising for cruise?

[GandM-nq]

The following query is related to full disclosure of all costs upfront by a TA in relation to a cruise booking:

 

I have booked a complete packaged holiday (international - Europe) through a local Australian website based TA. Price seemed more than reasonable for the full package. Cruise + flights + accommodation pre/post cruise with a few extras thrown in (Hotel breakfasts, city day tours, transfers) .

 

But looking through all the documentation I have received (and all fineprint on the website), there is absolutely no mention of the gratuities. Nowhere does it say the cost of the package I booked includes gratuities. But, nor does it mention that gratuities will be an added expense that I would need to take care of on ship!

 

So I had to actually contact the TA and have them confirm that gratuities were indeed not included in the Package price!

 

The point here is that, by advertising the cruise package but then not listing or mentioning the gratuities anywhere seemed somewhat deceptive. Making the cost of the holiday seem cheaper than it really will be in reality.

 

In my case, the gratuities for the cruise booked are not insignificant - 2 adults x 21 days x $12USD pp.

 

Ok, so the gratuities are 'optional'. And I guess if I wanted to I can have them removed from my cabin folio. But they are still a cost expected by any reasonable person, and I can't understand why a supposed reputable cruise specialist TA would not list or mention an expected expense such as gratuities.

 

So, what do you all think?

 

After finding out that the gratuities were an 'extra' undisclosed cost, I did re-evaluate the holiday package and still found it to be reasonable - well, not as reasonable but still acceptable value. Just would have liked to have been made aware of ALL upfront costs and not have that expense of gratuities hidden through (deceptive?) omission.

[MMDown Under]

I thought all travel advertisements in Australia had to show the total cost. In this case $x, plus gratuities.

 

I agree with you that it is deceptive to not show, in any of the documentation, that gratuities are additional.

[GUT2407]

But it's also typical.

 

Some lines show a price say From $2000.

 

You get to the pick cabin stage and it says for the cabin you want $2100 [sounds good]

 

But then at the end it's $2100 + Taxes $350 + Grats $200 =$2650

 

Sure I can get a cabin for $2000 all included but if that's not the category I want the price when I select my category is still misleading advertising.

[goodycruising]

I think we are all a bit tired of these practices. We have had some pretty strong laws in Australia for decades now about false advertising, but it seems these sort of tactics are just too common with the cruise pricing, and they shouldn't be.

 

It leaves a nasty taste when you go to look at prices and find as you go through the research that what you first see is not what you get.

 

It is also a huge time waster, as when I want to have a quick look through different cruise options I need to actually do a dummy booking just so that I can see what the cost will be with taxes and gratuities. That is just not how we do business in Australia.

 

The gratuities are a real source of discontent. With the arguments that the cruise staff work so hard and don't earn much. Hell my feet are killing me. I work hard to to earn the money for my cruises. I get paid properly though and don't have my hand out to my customers. I pay the gratuities and if I get good service I give a bit extra, but I know many get a nasty surprise when they have to come up with more money than they budgeted for because of this gratuities being "optional".

Edited March 24, 2015 by goodycruising

[GUT2407]

I freely admit that the tips came as a real shock on our first cruise.

 

It was at a time when we were a one income family and as I was self employed money came in when it came in. Fortunately I got a BIG payment the day after we left which DD banked, in all honesty if it hadn't arrived we probably didn't have enough money to pay the tips.

 

In fact embarkation day we said Oh well good job everything is paid for because we haven't got anything in the bank.

 

I am sure that there are plenty of others in the same situation, and no one from the line had told us that there would be about $250 extra to pay.

[Sparky74]

I'll repeat what I said in August last year.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2090878

 

Are you sick and tired of cruiselines and travel agents advertising prices that do not include fees and taxes (and gratuities)?

I believe that this is actually illegal under the Australian Consumer Law.

What can we do about it?

I suggest that we ALL complain to the ACCC about this practice of "drip pricing" (aka "component pricing").

Take a few moments to fill out the form found at https://www.accc.gov.au/contact-us/contact-the-accc/consumer-complaint-form

[windsor26]

Normally I would not agree with you regarding including gratuities in the price advertised for most of the world BUT as we are in Australia and some cruise lines ie Princess do NOT have gratuities added as their staff are p[aid correctly, it seems that now the other lines should include the gratuities in their pricing or advise that it will be extra

[johndon]

Yesterday I listened to an interview with Graham Samuel from ACCC on one of our local radio stations on "deceptive advertising".

His comments were mainly directed at two major Australian airlines who have been advertising cheap airfares on line when customers accessing these fares found that after add ons and credit card charges the fares were substantially more expensive than what was advertised

The ACC currently had court cases going against both airlines

In my opinion, the matter of gratuities added on to cruise fares (although deceptive) do not come under the same category as what the airlines are doing because the gratuities are not compulsory and passengers do not have to pay them if they so choose

The add ons with the airlines cannot be avoided

It is arguable that cruise companies and/or TAs are "deceptively advertising" by not advertising that gratuities are an addition to the fare and that they are not a compulsory cost but it is not the same as what the airlines are doing as that cost can be avoided

Mr Samuel's whole argument on "deceptive advertising" was anything that deceives or misleads by deception the decision of a customer to purchase goods or services

It is gratifying to know that the ACC will and is prosecuting large corporations and companies for this type of conduct. Coles and Woolworths are also being pursued on similar lines

Perhaps the cruise lines and TAs should take note

 

John

[joybook]

I'm not sure that I agree with the sentiments that are being expressed here. Yes I do agree that there continues to be a fair amount of deceptive advertising, but I would have thought that as you have the opportunity to reduce or eliminate completely your gratuities they would not have fallen into this category of deceptive advertising.

 

Additionally, I would doubt that I would ever take a holiday (particularly a relatively expensive one) without reading the detailed brochures and doing some research (there is plenty around). I would be therefore amazed that the subject of gratuities had not come up previously in these brochures etc. :)

[mr walker]

Maybe I have just been lucky in the TA's & cruiseline I have dealt with??

 

1. like GUT2407, prior to our first cruise I knew nothing T&G's, but in my very first conversation with the TA (online) she asked me what I wanted to do about T&G's and we discussed options. We elected to pre-pay

 

2. On 7 subsequent cruises with a variety of TA's (online & bricks & mortar) in every case the T&G's were brought up be the TA & we have always pre-paid.

 

3. Our most recent cruise was booked directly online with the cruiseline. The advertised price included everything except T&G's. As you proceed with the booking an option to pre-pay T&G's comes up & you can 'check' or not. We 'checked'

 

I agree that it would be best for all concerned if the T&G's were just included in the price, but the law does not require that (as in practice they are optional) & the business chooses not to as no-one wants to be viewed as more expensive, at least not be first to do that.

 

All that said, the OP's post was about disclosure & total costs and the discussion that ensued was in line with that. The thread was not about whether the staff should receive T&G's or not, at least until someone butted in with their thoughts on that. Please, that is a whole separate matter & you are free to do what you want in that regard, but is is not the matter in question.

 

OP - next time use a better TA:)

[Tara Jane]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned and I recall reading a post by someone but am computer illiterate so cant find it by just doing a search.

The person was unable to book set dining so was automatically charged tips and they were put on anytime dining.

They had decided they wouldn't use the dining room at all, tried to have tips removed, saying they would just use the buffet.

So yes they can be removed if on set dining, but if set dining isn't available and you don't intend using the dining room for anytime dining the tips still had to be pre-paid.

Some people would say they were just trying to not pay the tips, which could be the case but technically they did not have an option to not pay them.

Edited March 25, 2015 by Tara Jane

[goodycruising]

All that said, the OP's post was about disclosure & total costs and the discussion that ensued was in line with that. The thread was not about whether the staff should receive T&G's or not, at least until someone butted in with their thoughts on that. Please, that is a whole separate matter & you are free to do what you want in that regard, but is is not the matter in question.

 

 

Sorry, I did get off topic a bit. My original point was going to be that while the gratuities are seen as an optional charge, they are a bit more of a set charge that is not so simple to take off. If you don't prepay them, then you get charged daily on your sea pass on Royal Caribbean, and it is my understanding that to get them removed is a black mark on the staff. Anyhow, sorry to have diverted off the original OP's intention.

[mr walker]

If you don't prepay them, then you get charged daily on your sea pass on Royal Caribbean, and it is my understanding that to get them removed is a black mark on the staff. Anyhow, sorry to have diverted off the original OP's intention.

 

goody, no need to apologise. I guess I just get overexcited when I see discussions about T&G's and their inclusion in total 'advertised' cost develop into whether there should T&G's at all, but thinking about it, that is mostly on the US boards & not here where we are much more civil. So I trust we are all good.

 

On the removal point, I think that the cruiseline would be sensible in their interpretation of why that particular guest was removing, so that it would not necessarily become a black mark on their waiter, assistant waiter, head waiter & room steward.

Edited March 25, 2015 by mr walker

[mr walker]

The person was unable to book set dining so was automatically charged tips and they were put on anytime dining.

They had decided they wouldn't use the dining room at all, tried to have tips removed, saying they would just use the buffet.

So yes they can be removed if on set dining, but if set dining isn't available and you don't intend using the dining room for anytime dining the tips still had to be pre-paid.

Some people would say they were just trying to not pay the tips, which could be the case but technically they did not have an option to not pay them.

 

Yes, I recognise there is a now a case in this regards. I use RC as an example as that is what I am familiar with - perhaps it is the one you refer to.

The requirement to prepay T&G's for MTD made sense. When the auto tips were then added for 'regular' dining it made less sense to require MTD T&G's to be prepaid. Perhaps they will address that at some point?

Buffet dining is not a reason to not pay T&G's - your eating in the buffet should not affect T&G's for your room steward. Pay them or not as you choose, but don't use buffet dining as a reason.

 

Oh, I just re-read what I wrote. When I wrote 'your' I was not referring to you personally, or indeed any particular individual. It was just in general, sort of equivalent to the royal 'we'

Edited March 25, 2015 by mr walker

[goodycruising]

goody, no need to apologise. I guess I just get overexcited when I see discussions about T&G's and their inclusion in total 'advertised' cost develop into whether there should T&G's at all, but thinking about it, that is mostly on the US boards & not here where we are much more civil. So I trust we are all good.

 

On the removal point, I think that the cruiseline would be sensible in their interpretation of why that particular guest was removing, so that it would not necessarily become a black mark on their waiter, assistant waiter, head waiter & room steward.

 

We are good, I did go a bit off on a tangent. I also realised yesterday it was 5 weeks since we got off our cruise, and I am struggling with waiting until our next booking in November! (and my feet are sore, but that really does have no relationship to false advertising!) :)

[chester32]

It is not just AUS there is a certain TA that will do AUS and USA and they claim to have a certain % discount but first they double the price ,when I asked about a cruise I had enquired about with them and with there discount that why was there price the same if not more than others so where is the advertised discount there was no reply ?

But I have been told that all TAs get around there advertised price by simply adding the word FROM so that makes it all legit?

Edited March 25, 2015 by chester32

[The_Big_M]

Buffet dining is not a reason to not pay T&G's - your eating in the buffet should not affect T&G's for your room steward. Pay them or not as you choose, but don't use buffet dining as a reason.

 

Further to that, the dining staff in the buffet are also part of the tip pool.

 

So agreed that eating in the buffet isn't a reason for the removal of tips.

[kuldalai]

The following query is related to full disclosure of all costs upfront by a TA in relation to a cruise booking:

 

I have booked a complete packaged holiday (international - Europe) through a local Australian website based TA. Price seemed more than reasonable for the full package. Cruise + flights + accommodation pre/post cruise with a few extras thrown in (Hotel breakfasts, city day tours, transfers) .

 

But looking through all the documentation I have received (and all fineprint on the website), there is absolutely no mention of the gratuities. Nowhere does it say the cost of the package I booked includes gratuities. But, nor does it mention that gratuities will be an added expense that I would need to take care of on ship!

 

So I had to actually contact the TA and have them confirm that gratuities were indeed not included in the Package price!

 

The point here is that, by advertising the cruise package but then not listing or mentioning the gratuities anywhere seemed somewhat deceptive. Making the cost of the holiday seem cheaper than it really will be in reality.

 

In my case, the gratuities for the cruise booked are not insignificant - 2 adults x 21 days x $12USD pp.

 

Ok, so the gratuities are 'optional'. And I guess if I wanted to I can have them removed from my cabin folio. But they are still a cost expected by any reasonable person, and I can't understand why a supposed reputable cruise specialist TA would not list or mention an expected expense such as gratuities.

 

So, what do you all think?

 

After finding out that the gratuities were an 'extra' undisclosed cost, I did re-evaluate the holiday package and still found it to be reasonable - well, not as reasonable but still acceptable value. Just would have liked to have been made aware of ALL upfront costs and not have that expense of gratuities hidden through (deceptive?) omission.

 

Lodge a formal complaint with the ACCC in Melbourne it is illegal in Australia to sell a product where the advertised product does NOT include all hidden costs . So where gratuities are automatically added to an on board account they (the Cruise Line) not the TA are in breach of Australian Law.

[Royalty X]

But I have been told that all TAs get around there advertised price by simply adding the word FROM so that makes it all legit?

Of course they have to use the word "from" with regards to pricing. The advertised specials are usually the lead-in category room type or a guarantee basis. Yes, you can sail on the ships "from" whatever price is advertised, but if you want something in particular (highest category balcony stateroom for example), you have to pay for it. Why should you have the highest category for the lead-in price or a balcony for the price of an inside? There is nothing wrong with this sort of advertising.

 

Regarding online TAs and their use of pricing without gratuities, I guess it all depends on the cruise line. This is how they get people to buy and make you think they are cheaper than anywhere else.

[GandM-nq]

It is certainly not the Cruise Line's fault. I have never seen a Cruise line misrepresent or not disclose gratuities. And this is not a debate on the merits or otherwise of passengers being charged gratuities.

 

This is squarely on the TA concerned not disclosing an expected cost regarding a product they are selling. This web based TA, which by the way specialises in cruises, should know better than to try and 'hide by failure to disclose' the gratuities when listing/quoting prices.

 

Just like GUT2407 's first cruise experience (which he related above), if I had been a first time cruiser booking this package and thought I had paid everything up front because there is no mention of expected further expenses, the gratuities bill at the end of this cruise would have been a big shock! (I am looking at $504 USD for the cruise I am going on)

 

Anyways, I did fill in an ACCC complaint form. Not that I am expecting anything personally from it. Would be happy if the ACCC just made a directive that the TA specifically highlight the 'Gratuities' (whether included in costing or will indeed to be an additional extra) in all future cruise/cruise tour package listings. Like I personally think should have been all along.

Edited March 26, 2015 by GandM-nq