Why not 1 really good formal night instead of 2 half hearted ones?

[tserface]

I'm one of the ones who would not tell anyone else how ot dress, but, that said, I fully agree with you. There is something special about a whole ship full of people dressed up really nicely. It isn't like it ruins my vacation if someone isn't dressed up for the formal dinner, but I really appreciate it when people take advantage of one of the few times in our lives that we get to have this kind of atmosphere. We used to dress up for church, we dont' any more. We used to have restaurants that were "fancy" and we don't any more. It's ironic that the trend is to care less and less about dress and yet the TV is littered with shows telling us what we should wear.

 

I still really like formal nights. It's not all about being dressy. I like hat part, but I also like different experiences. Someone who dresses extremely casual on those nights doesn't ruin my vacation, but they do take away some from the overall feel of the night.

 

They'd have to be pretty poorly dressed for me to notice. I've seen people in really nice slacks and designer T-shirts that were not in tuxes or dark suits and they still looked really formal. I don't see why a "tie" needs to be involved. I wear one, but I question that decision ever time. There is something in between "shorts and a T-shirt" and dressed in full tux regalia.

 

Tom

 

If you really say that honestly, then you are extremely naive about social interaction. Sure, anyone can dress up on any night that they please. But dress-up events are largely about a different type of social interaction. If you go somewhere "dressed to the nines" and everyone else is wearing t-shirts and shorts, it's just not the same atmosphere.

 

There are lots of social activities and customs that are fun, at least for some people, in the appropriate setting, that might seem weird or even concerning, if you did them alone.

 

Of course, there are lots of people in these discussions who seem socially clueless, evidenced by how often you get comments like, "I don't let what someone else is wearing ruin my vacation." Those comments are either intentionally disingenuous, or they reflect the same kind of naivety that you are showing. It's not really about someone else's clothes ruining your meal or your vacation, but the fact that we humans are social animals, and some of the social customs associated with a "formal night" just lose their luster, if a significant number of people treat it like just any other night.

 

I know you like to pin the blame on the cruise line for not making it "special" enough or differentiating it enough from other nights, but I think it's almost completely on the people. Tastes are changing, and fewer people are interested in the dress-up thing, so it makes it less fun for those who are into it. When I first started cruising 20+ years ago, the formal nights, like today, were not much different from any other night on the ship, except that the suggested attire was formal (and they tried to have some of the "fancier" menu items like lobster, as they still do today).

 

I say that just to try to explain to you that it's not the same to just dress formal whenever you want, since you didn't seem to get it. As for me, I enjoy the formal nights, and I find that, at least in my experience, the demise of formal nights is greatly overstated. We still dress up, and find that most others in the dining room do, as well. The level of dress has dropped somewhat over the last couple decades, but not as drastically as some report.

[LMaxwell]

I also think most of the name calling on cruise critice is done by those who want strict enforcement of the suggested dress code, so it makes sense to me that they seem to be frustrated because they are losing the evolution battle.

Happy cruising.

 

Agreed. Not sure what they are defending though. They like to see more people dressed up, and call other people names and are demeaning, yet they don't ask RCI to do anything to entice or encourage people to participate.

 

RCI has to pick a side eventually.

[American Bear]

Agreed. Not sure what they are defending though. They like to see more people dressed up, and call other people names and are demeaning, yet they don't ask RCI to do anything to entice or encourage people to participate.

 

RCI has to pick a side eventually.

 

 

I really do think that when enough people want it, you'll see cruises where every night is 'dress up/formal', sort of like a specialty cruise.

I would suggest to those who really feel strongly about this to contact RCL to see if they'd give it a try. :)

Happy cruising

[coldflame]

I'd agree with you, and would add that is most likely the reason RCL is not enforcing any strict dress code, just suggesting.

I'd agree with those who see the evolution moving towards a less dressier MDR.

I also think its possible some ships in the future advertised with strict MDR formal nights for those who want it.

I do think RCL reads the threads, and I think it affects them to a point in their business, but not anywhere near as much as ships sailing with empty cabins.

I also think most of the name calling on cruise critice is done by those who want strict enforcement of the suggested dress code, so it makes sense to me that they seem to be frustrated because they are losing the evolution battle.

Happy cruising.

 

Once upon a time, cruising was for the affluent and maybe, just maybe, a upper-middle class family after saving every dime they had to spare. There are lines who still cater to this day to this clientele. They are more intimate, formal, traditional, "quiet", impecable service and facilities and also very, very pricey -- which keeps the cruising proletariat (i.e. most of us) from ruining their fun.

 

Due to new ship technologies, CAD, design and engineering methods, as well as manufacturing processes, ships became larger and larger and also more expensive to build and maintain. Cruise lines that adopted the strategy of bigger is better could not keep the ultra exclusive pricing model if they wanted to remain viable. So, to fill vacancies and improve ROI, many of the "mega ship" lines made their pricing more accessible for everyone to pretty much anyone with a few thousand dollars to spend. Many of the new clientele did not have formal-wear nor the need to spend money on it for a night or two. There's also a group in this clientele who are 9-5ers in uptight and formal environments and want to get away from that when they go on vacation. There's yet another group for which appearances aren't all that important and prize behavior and conduct far above what people wear. There's many groups in the new clientele with many different reasons why they don't want to 1) bring formal wear on board, 2) feel they want to be in a relaxed attire for the length of their trip 2) have small kids who tend to be/get messy and pointless to be formal around them and very many other valid reasons.

 

Those folks who enjoy formal settings can and are encouraged to do so. If they want everyone else to observe their choice in clothing most cruise lines have premium dining experiences with strictly enforced dress codes.

 

So that said, those of us who loathe dressing formally in normal life, let alone in a cruise, are *not* requesting they make "flip-flop, jorts and tanktop night" or requesting the cruise lines do away with formal nights. In fact, we aren't requesting anything other than a modicum of respect for our choice of dress and stop using pejoratives or calling us "rude" or uncouth or whatever else.

[tip]

... those of us who loathe dressing formally in normal life, let alone in a cruise, are *not* requesting they make "flip-flop, jorts and tanktop night" or requesting the cruise lines do away with formal nights. In fact, we aren't requesting anything other than a modicum of respect for our choice of dress and stop using pejoratives or calling us "rude" or uncouth or whatever else.

 

Very well said!

[Paul65]

We would get all glitzed up if there were a reason to. Right now it's just a fashion parade in the dining room and then everyone goes back to change for the evening to something more comfortable because there's no formal activities or anything special going on anywhere. Our first cruise many years ago had some special things that are now gone. I don't blame people for not caring about it. The host doesn't care either. OP has a good idea!

 

What "special things that are now gone" did your cruise have? I'm just curious, because I don't remember that from my first cruise.

 

I don't think there is ever a "reason" to get all glitzed up, other than going somewhere that is billed as formal attire. That's all a formal event is - an excuse for a fashion parade.

[toxicfairy]

We love and look forward to BOTH formal nights. I bring and wear 2 full length gowns,my husband brings at least 3 full suits . We would hate to see even one disapear and i know we can't be the only ones to feel this way.

[ryano]

What "special things that are now gone" did your cruise have?

 

Even in the short time Ive been cruising, it seems I remember a Captains reception on Formal night with champagne or rum punch along with Hors d'oeuvres and a chance to have your picture taken with him. Three years ago, in the RP on Freedom, the Orchestra was set up and the Captain came out and spoke and it made a for a great evening. That was kind of special to me. That doesnt exist anymore, on Freedom of the Seas at least.

Edited May 5, 2015 by ryano

[RocketMan275]

What "special things that are now gone" did your cruise have? I'm just curious, because I don't remember that from my first cruise.

 

I don't think there is ever a "reason" to get all glitzed up, other than going somewhere that is billed as formal attire. That's all a formal event is - an excuse for a fashion parade.

 

Paul, in another response to this thread you said: " It's not really about someone else's clothes ruining your meal or your vacation, but the fact that we humans are social animals, and some of the social customs associated with a "formal night" just lose their luster, if a significant number of people treat it like just any other night."

 

That was an excellent point which applies here. We are, as you say, social animals. Formal events are more than just an excuse for a fashion parade. It is also a chance for some to show that they are part of a social grouping, a pack, if you will. A formal event is a chance to show that you are a part of an elite pack. Not a part of a (insert any derogatory term you prefer) pack, but a member of a special pack, an elite pack. It is saying "Look at these people. Look at me. Aren't we cool?".

 

The reason that some are upset when others do not dress up, is they perceive that those who choose not to dress up are diminishing the pack and, by extension, themselves. The pack has lost part of it's luster and it is less 'cool'. Then there are those like myself who just are not really good at being a 'social animal'.

 

I'm not attributing this motivation to you or anyone else specifically.

[Stitchman]

Paul, in another response to this thread you said: " It's not really about someone else's clothes ruining your meal or your vacation, but the fact that we humans are social animals, and some of the social customs associated with a "formal night" just lose their luster, if a significant number of people treat it like just any other night."

 

That was an excellent point which applies here. We are, as you say, social animals. Formal events are more than just an excuse for a fashion parade. It is also a chance for some to show that they are part of a social grouping, a pack, if you will. A formal event is a chance to show that you are a part of an elite pack. Not a part of a (insert any derogatory term you prefer) pack, but a member of a special pack, an elite pack. It is saying "Look at these people. Look at me. Aren't we cool?".

 

The reason that some are upset when others do not dress up, is they perceive that those who choose not to dress up are diminishing the pack and, by extension, themselves. The pack has lost part of it's luster and it is less 'cool'. Then there are those like myself who just are not really good at being a 'social animal'.

 

I'm not attributing this motivation to you or anyone else specifically.

 

 

 

Ann just did a little fashion parade for me (formal and just beautiful)....And all I can say is ........

I'm gutted you won't be there to see her looking so good !!

[Paul65]

Even in the short time Ive been cruising, it seems I remember a Captains reception on Formal night with champagne or rum punch along with Hors d'oeuvres and a chance to have your picture taken with him.

 

We had that last month on Serenade. Not with Hors d'oeuvres, but then I don't ever remember that being involved with the Captain's Welcome Aboard reception.

[LoveyHowell]

What "special things that are now gone" did your cruise have? I'm just curious, because I don't remember that from my first cruise.

 

I don't think there is ever a "reason" to get all glitzed up, other than going somewhere that is billed as formal attire. That's all a formal event is - an excuse for a fashion parade.

No matter what I tell you existed in the past you will tell me it doesn't matter to you or you don't remember it. Those that are observant have definitely seen a major decline in formal nights and it is NOT only due to the way people want to dress.

 

Suffice it to say, formal night now is just a night to dress more fancy in the dining room if you feel like it and absolutely nothing more at all. It's not even formal night anymore. It's just formal dining room dress. The cruise lines used to make an effort, now they don't. Royal isn't the only one guilty. For those that love formal nights NOW the way they are, wouldn't you like it a whole lot better with a special cocktail reception, live dinner music, and a really lavish menu? That would be fun!

 

It takes two to tango.

[Paul65]

Formal events are more than just an excuse for a fashion parade. It is also a chance for some to show that they are part of a social grouping, a pack, if you will. A formal event is a chance to show that you are a part of an elite pack. Not a part of a (insert any derogatory term you prefer) pack, but a member of a special pack, an elite pack. It is saying "Look at these people. Look at me. Aren't we cool?".

 

It can be that, but that is not really the case most of the time (at least in my life). I have dressed up on cruises, for weddings, for fundraiser "galas," for proms in high school, and probably another occasion or two that doesn't come to mind. But none of these events were about being elite. Almost all the juniors and seniors in school went to prom (and this was a small-town public high school); the weddings I've attended have not been high-society; the cruises have had people from all walks of life; the fundraisers were just local organizations selling tickets and doing silent auctions to raise a little money.

 

Sure, there are people who like to be elite and flaunt wealth and/or status, but I don't think that's usually what a formal event is about.

[Paul65]

Suffice it to say, formal night now is just a night to dress more fancy in the dining room if you feel like it and absolutely nothing more at all. It's not even formal night anymore. It's just formal dining room dress. The cruise lines used to make an effort, now they don't. Royal isn't the only one guilty. For those that love formal nights NOW the way they are, wouldn't you like it a whole lot better with a special cocktail reception, live dinner music, and a really lavish menu? That would be fun!

 

There has always been a "cocktail reception" on the first formal night for the Captain's Welcome Aboard reception on my cruises (right up to the one last month). I only started cruising in the early 90s, though, in the era of the Sovereign class ships. You can't really have any kind of intimate reception for 2500 people, so maybe that is the difference for those who remember way back to ships with only a few hundred passengers max.

[Stitchman]

It can be that, but that is not really the case most of the time (at least in my life). I have dressed up on cruises, for weddings, for fundraiser "galas," for proms in high school, and probably another occasion or two that doesn't come to mind. But none of these events were about being elite. Almost all the juniors and seniors in school went to prom (and this was a small-town public high school); the weddings I've attended have not been high-society; the cruises have had people from all walks of life; the fundraisers were just local organizations selling tickets and doing silent auctions to raise a little money.

 

Sure, there are people who like to be elite and flaunt wealth and/or status, but I don't think that's usually what a formal event is about.

 

 

 

Absolutely the most positive thing I've seen on this thread.

 

I'm going to hook up with my dreams later too :)

 

And we are not "elite", I fit kitchens for a living, and the chance for me to "really" dress up is superb !!

[LoveyHowell]

There has always been a "cocktail reception" on the first formal night for the Captain's Welcome Aboard reception on my cruises (right up to the one last month). I only started cruising in the early 90s, though, in the era of the Sovereign class ships. You can't really have any kind of intimate reception for 2500 people, so maybe that is the difference for those who remember way back to ships with only a few hundred passengers max.

Our first cruise was in the 1990's. I've never been on what some would call a "small" ship though smaller than most of todays ships.

 

A better question to ask is; what did they do for "Formal" night for you on the Serenade that they did not do on any other casual evening? Sure doesn't sound like much to me. Oh well, if people are happy as muddy pigs to get nothing out of the deal, they'll get nothing out of the deal.

[Paul65]

Our first cruise was in the 1990's. I've never been on what some would call a "small" ship though smaller than most of todays ships.

 

A better question to ask is; what did they do for "Formal" night for you on the Serenade that they did not do on any other casual evening? Sure doesn't sound like much to me. Oh well, if people are happy as muddy pigs to get nothing out of the deal, they'll get nothing out of the deal.

 

Well, that was my original point, as well. They didn't do much different on formal night in the 90s or last month on the Serenade. The menu is usually a bit upgraded, and the dress suggestion is formal. The first formal night on a seven-nighter was always "Captain's Welcome Aboard" and there was some sort of reception, depending on the layout of the ship. The second formal night has traditionally been "lobster night", and I don't recall it involving anything else unusual, then or now.

 

Then, as now, we always enjoyed a nice dinner, then usually ended up at one of the lounges sometime after dinner for a little dancing, while still gussied up. I did, and still does, make for an enjoyable evening. :)

[RocketMan275]

Ann just did a little fashion parade for me (formal and just beautiful)....And all I can say is ........

I'm gutted you won't be there to see her looking so good !!

 

Probably just as well I won't be there. Probably only make a fool of myself. Congratulations!

[RocketMan275]

It can be that, but that is not really the case most of the time (at least in my life). I have dressed up on cruises, for weddings, for fundraiser "galas," for proms in high school, and probably another occasion or two that doesn't come to mind. But none of these events were about being elite. Almost all the juniors and seniors in school went to prom (and this was a small-town public high school); the weddings I've attended have not been high-society; the cruises have had people from all walks of life; the fundraisers were just local organizations selling tickets and doing silent auctions to raise a little money.

 

Sure, there are people who like to be elite and flaunt wealth and/or status, but I don't think that's usually what a formal event is about.

 

Fashion has always been about wealth and status. Either the display of the wealth and status one has or the wealth and status one pretends to have. Try googling 'fashion and status'.

[richstowe]

Once upon a time, cruising was for the affluent and maybe, just maybe, a upper-middle class family after saving every dime they had to spare. There are lines who still cater to this day to this clientele. They are more intimate, formal, traditional, "quiet", impecable service and facilities and also very, very pricey -- which keeps the cruising proletariat (i.e. most of us) from ruining their fun.

 

I agree with many of your points but it seems that all cruise lines are de-emphasizing the formal element of cruising not just the popular priced ones. According to CC, Azamara mentions "The dress code is resort casual"

while on Oceana, " Formalwear is not a requirement on Oceania ships" . On Regent Seven Seas , "Regent Seven Seas Cruises adopted a more relaxed dress code in 2010, and, frankly, it's a joy. With "elegant casual" the order of the evening, passengers can relax and not worry about lugging along formal gear if they'd rather not" .

 

The point is ALL cruise lines , even the premium ones are becoming less formal.

[Stitchman]

Fashion has always been about wealth and status. Either the display of the wealth and status one has or the wealth and status one pretends to have. Try googling 'fashion and status'.

 

 

Funny, I just thought it was about enjoying oneself ......

I just love it, and so does my partner. But if it's not your thing then that's fair enough. But it's a little unfair you dig at people that want to participate.

 

just saying.

[SW.FloridaPhil]

IMHO, formal nights are a treat. We dress casually for work. We look forward to getting dressed to the nines for our vacation, which is special to us.

 

All ships, and all itineraries probably should not have formal nights. I would like to see it on 7 or more night cruises. I would like to see it on some of the smaller/older ships. This way if 70% of the people dress up, it looks like dressing up is the norm.

 

Hate me if you need to, but for me, formal, for gentlemen, is a tux or formal white dinner jacket PERIOD!

[Paul65]

Fashion has always been about wealth and status. Either the display of the wealth and status one has or the wealth and status one pretends to have. Try googling 'fashion and status'.

 

Sort of true, but you are overemphasizing it to try to justify your opinions. The same could be said about many things, like cars always being about wealth and status. But they are also about transportation. And there are people who drive vehicles associated with "wealth and status" that bought them used and paid less than I paid new for my Hyundai. But do those who drive a used Mercedes do it for status, or because it's a good quality car? Probably some of both.

 

The same is true for clothing and fashion. It is partly about status, but not completely. None of the occasions that I mentioned having worn formal wear were "status" or "elite" events. That is true, regardless of what you want me to "google."

[tserface]

This may be true in "real life", but one of the best things about cruising is for a week or so we get to live like the other half. I think that's why the formal stuff is such a hot button with some. I think it's fair to say that one of the reasons many of us enjoy cruising is it makes us, for a little while, feel pampered and special. That's not a bad thing. Most of us work regular jobs, pay mortgages, and do otherwise normal things. During a cruise we get to forget all of that and have that luxury we typically could only dream about.

 

OK, I sound like a marketing commercial, but it makes sense and I'll own up to feeling this way. I have to believe others do as well.

 

I don't spend a lot on getting dressed up. I only wear my suit on cruises so it's lasted a really long time.

 

Sure there are probably some who go on cruises just to get sunburned and drink, but I could do both of those things at home for a lot less.

 

Tom

 

Fashion has always been about wealth and status. Either the display of the wealth and status one has or the wealth and status one pretends to have. Try googling 'fashion and status'.

[Stitchman]

This may be true in "real life", but one of the best things about cruising is for a week or so we get to live like the other half. I think that's why the formal stuff is such a hot button with some. I think it's fair to say that one of the reasons many of us enjoy cruising is it makes us, for a little while, feel pampered and special. That's not a bad thing. Most of us work regular jobs, pay mortgages, and do otherwise normal things. During a cruise we get to forget all of that and have that luxury we typically could only dream about.

 

OK, I sound like a marketing commercial, but it makes sense and I'll own up to feeling this way. I have to believe others do as well.

 

I don't spend a lot on getting dressed up. I only wear my suit on cruises so it's lasted a really long time.

 

Sure there are probably some who go on cruises just to get sunburned and drink, but I could do both of those things at home for a lot less.

 

Tom

 

 

 

Not a marketing commercial, a perfect analysis of what cruise holidays are about.

IMHO You may as well be on a static holiday If there is nothing special about it.

but there you go.

Edited May 5, 2015 by Stitchman
I left a bit out.