Disability discrimination settlement

[JB&JLG74]

Under a disability discrimination settlement between Carnival and the Justice Department affecting Carnival, HAL, and Princess:

 

Three percent of the cabins on 49 ships will be accessible according to three levels of accessibility: fully accessible cabins, fully accessible cabins with a single side approach to the bed and ambulatory accessible cabins. The remaining 13 ships will be subject to possible remodeling if they continue to be in service in U.S. ports four years after the agreement is entered.

 

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/tourism/sfl-ap-carnival-cruises-disabled-settlement-story.html

 

I hope this does not signal the end of my beloved Prinsendam.

[TiogaCruiser]

So does anyone know what constitutes the three levels?

 

fully accessible cabins,

fully accessible cabins with a single side approach to the bed and

ambulatory accessible cabins.

[Cruising Is Bliss]

This link is to actual settlement announcement with a bit more detail.

 

http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-reaches-agreement-carnival-corp-over-ada-violations-carnival-cruise-line

 

This link is to the actual settlement agreement. I recommend everyone take a look at it. It's not particularly long and it's not hideously legalese.

 

Sections 16A and 16B refer to established design requirements for the first two types of accessible cabin.

 

16C defines Ambulatory Accessible Cabin for the purpose of the settlement agreement.

 

http://www.ada.gov/carnival/carnival_sa.html

Edited July 24, 2015 by Cruising Is Bliss

[GUT2407]

This is great news.

 

I am not 100% sure though does it mean 3% of each category of cabin?

[Cruising Is Bliss]

So does anyone know what constitutes the three levels?

 

fully accessible cabins,

fully accessible cabins with a single side approach to the bed and

ambulatory accessible cabins.

 

I posted a link upstream to the agreement but here's that definition.

 

C."Ambulatory Accessible Cabin (AAC)" means a Standard Cabin that has, at a minimum, the following accessible elements that comply with either the 1991 ADA Standards or the 2010 ADA Standards: entrance door hardware; entrance door threshold and opening force; main cabin mirrors; closet door hardware, closet rods, coat hooks, and shelves; controls and operable parts; bathroom entrance door hardware and opening force; towel bars; toilet seat height, toilet grab bars, and toilet paper dispenser; lavatory height and faucet; bathtub (if provided); if a shower is provided, then shower grab bars, shower seat, and shower spray unit; visual and audible alarms; Closed Caption enabled televisions; and, if provided, safety deposit boxes; hair dryers; refrigerators, and shaver sockets. The toilet grab bars, toilet paper dispenser, shower grab bars, and shower seat in the bathroom must comply with either the 1991 ADA Standards or the 2010 ADA Standards to the maximum extent feasible. For the purposes of this Agreement, AACs do not include clear floor space, turning space, maneuvering clearance or accessible routes within the cabin.

[Cruising Is Bliss]

This is great news.

 

I am not 100% sure though does it mean 3% of each category of cabin?

 

No. It's 3% of total cabins with no set cabin category requirements except that there must be accessible suites.

[Cruising Is Bliss]

This is a link to the settlement Fact Sheet which is blessedly written in plain English with no legalese.

 

http://www.ada.gov/carnival/carnival_fact_sheet.html

Edited July 24, 2015 by Cruising Is Bliss

[Cruising Is Bliss]

Addendum A to the settlement agreement is not available but it's referred to as listing the ships and their scheduled dry dock dates so I think it's safe to assume that any physical remodeling necessary isn't going to happen until scheduled dry docks.

 

The agreement also calls for fully accessible phone services and websites, including booking online.

 

*contemplates the possibility of RCCL also getting sued and trying to achieve compliant websites for RCCL and Celebrity from the wreckage of their current websites*

[ellieanne]

Under a disability discrimination settlement between Carnival and the Justice Department affecting Carnival, HAL, and Princess:

 

Three percent of the cabins on 49 ships will be accessible according to three levels of accessibility: fully accessible cabins, fully accessible cabins with a single side approach to the bed and ambulatory accessible cabins. The remaining 13 ships will be subject to possible remodeling if they continue to be in service in U.S. ports four years after the agreement is entered.

 

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/tourism/sfl-ap-carnival-cruises-disabled-settlement-story.html

 

I hope this does not signal the end of my beloved Prinsendam.

 

So if the ships are moved to itineraries with no US ports then no changes need to be made?

[Krazy Kruizers]

Under a disability discrimination settlement between Carnival and the Justice Department affecting Carnival, HAL, and Princess:

 

Three percent of the cabins on 49 ships will be accessible according to three levels of accessibility: fully accessible cabins, fully accessible cabins with a single side approach to the bed and ambulatory accessible cabins. The remaining 13 ships will be subject to possible remodeling if they continue to be in service in U.S. ports four years after the agreement is entered.

 

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/tourism/sfl-ap-carnival-cruises-disabled-settlement-story.html

 

I hope this does not signal the end of my beloved Prinsendam.

 

 

Thank you for this information.

[Krazy Kruizers]

So if the ships are moved to itineraries with no US ports then no changes need to be made?

 

 

 

That is what I am thinking.

Prinsendam wouldn't be able to make her 1 or 2 stops in Ft Lauderdale anymore.

[chengkp75]

While I am in complete agreement with the necessity of tightening the rules for booking accessible cabins, and making some reasonable changes to improve accessibility, I am really surprised that this settlement was reached, or that the investigation actually looked into many of the areas that it did. I'm also a bit surprised that Carnival agreed to all of this. Before anyone flames me, I am basing this on the Specter v. NCL Supreme Court decision on the ADA, where the Court ruled that the ADA did not apply to "foreign ships' internal business or operations" without a clear mandate from Congress. Since Congress has not passed a bill revising the ADA to specifically include foreign ships, the Court says that only certain aspects of the ADA apply. This settlement makes it sound as if Justice has decided that all aspects will apply.

 

And, yes, since Carnival Corp is a foreign corporation, and the ships are foreign, the ADA has no application for ships that do not call in the US.

[Caribbean Chris]

Very welcome announcement for anyone who is hard of hearing or deaf. The settlement has a paragraph describing the communication assistance to be included. Perhaps it will be taken more seriously now with compliance officers designated on board.

 

A typical example: On a HAL transatlantic, requested an assistive listening device at the front desk. Sitting in the theater ready to enjoy the show, discovered it did not work. Reason? No batteries in device. No batteries at the front desk, nor in the shop on board. Front desk's response - perhaps I could find some in port (eight days later.)

[chengkp75]

Very welcome announcement for anyone who is hard of hearing or deaf. The settlement has a paragraph describing the communication assistance to be included. Perhaps it will be taken more seriously now with compliance officers designated on board.

 

A typical example: On a HAL transatlantic, requested an assistive listening device at the front desk. Sitting in the theater ready to enjoy the show, discovered it did not work. Reason? No batteries in device. No batteries at the front desk, nor in the shop on board. Front desk's response - perhaps I could find some in port (eight days later.)

 

Those are the kind of things that are inexcusable in customer service, and would be considered "easily adopted" by the Specter ruling.

[JB&JLG74]

****Perhaps it will be taken more seriously now with compliance officers designated on board.

 

I'm hoping that the compliance officer will be knowledgeable in both what is required and what is not required. I spent 78 days on the Amsterdam with what was obviously someone's pet dog. I don't know for a fact, but I've been told that the only service animals HAL has to permit onboard are dogs. I would much rather be onboard with a legitimate service monkey ... pig ... you-name-it than a pet dog with purchased service animal papers.

[JB&JLG74]

* * *

And, yes, since Carnival Corp is a foreign corporation, and the ships are foreign, the ADA has no application for ships that do not call in the US.

 

What???? Carnival Corp (CCL) is listed on the NYSE with USA corporate headquarters in Miami FL (how many of us enjoy shareholder benefits in the form of OBC). Nothing foreign about it. It is also dual listed on the London exchange. Carnival, HAL, and Princess all have USA sales and operation offices.

[POA1]

What???? Carnival Corp (CCL) is listed on the NYSE with USA corporate headquarters in Miami FL (how many of us enjoy shareholder benefits in the form of OBC). Nothing foreign about it. It is also dual listed on the London exchange. Carnival, HAL, and Princess all have USA sales and operation offices.

 

Exactly. US Corporate HQ in Miami. UK Corporate headquarters in London. Company HQ is in Panama. There's nothing unusual about that. There are plenty of companies that trade on multiple exchanges and have operating units in different countries.

[kazu]

Under a disability discrimination settlement between Carnival and the Justice Department affecting Carnival, HAL, and Princess:

 

Three percent of the cabins on 49 ships will be accessible according to three levels of accessibility: fully accessible cabins, fully accessible cabins with a single side approach to the bed and ambulatory accessible cabins. The remaining 13 ships will be subject to possible remodeling if they continue to be in service in U.S. ports four years after the agreement is entered.

 

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/tourism/sfl-ap-carnival-cruises-disabled-settlement-story.html

 

I hope this does not signal the end of my beloved Prinsendam.

 

I don't think this will mean the end of the Prinsendam at all. She already has 10 wheel chair accessible cabins, so 2.5% of the ship already.

 

This link is to actual settlement announcement with a bit more detail.

 

http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-reaches-agreement-carnival-corp-over-ada-violations-carnival-cruise-line

 

This link is to the actual settlement agreement. I recommend everyone take a look at it. It's not particularly long and it's not hideously legalese.

 

Sections 16A and 16B refer to established design requirements for the first two types of accessible cabin.

 

16C defines Ambulatory Accessible Cabin for the purpose of the settlement agreement.

 

http://www.ada.gov/carnival/carnival_sa.html

 

thanks very much for posting this second link. It adds a lot of clarification.

[JB&JLG74]

I don't think this will mean the end of the Prinsendam at all. She already has 10 wheel chair accessible cabins, so 2.5% of the ship already.

 

Thanks for the reassurance. With the ever-present rumors that she is for sale (or already sold) I tend to get jumpy whenever management might have any excuse to call it quits. I hope if, after 4 years management does not want to spend the $ for the extra .5 percent, that they will port her outside of the US. I wouldn't mind flying to continue to sail on the Prinsendam.

[kazu]

Thanks for the reassurance. With the ever-present rumors that she is for sale (or already sold) I tend to get jumpy whenever management might have any excuse to call it quits. I hope if, after 4 years management does not want to spend the $ for the extra .5 percent, that they will port her outside of the US. I wouldn't mind flying to continue to sail on the Prinsendam.

 

We always fly to sail on the Prinsendam :)

 

How long she will be in the fleet remains to be seen, but by Captain Tim's own words, at least 3 more years are left in the 5 years he stated as a "for sure" length of time. We love her too and she is one of the reasons we sail HAL :)

[chengkp75]

What???? Carnival Corp (CCL) is listed on the NYSE with USA corporate headquarters in Miami FL (how many of us enjoy shareholder benefits in the form of OBC). Nothing foreign about it. It is also dual listed on the London exchange. Carnival, HAL, and Princess all have USA sales and operation offices.

 

Carnival Corporation is incorporated under the laws of Panama. There are many, many companies that are not incorporated in the US that are listed on the NYSE, and many of those have corporate headquarters in the US. And every one of Carnival Corp.'s subsidiary brands is incorporated overseas. These are not US corporations.

[serendipity1499]

Very welcome announcement for anyone who is hard of hearing or deaf. The settlement has a paragraph describing the communication assistance to be included. Perhaps it will be taken more seriously now with compliance officers designated on board.

 

A typical example: On a HAL transatlantic, requested an assistive listening device at the front desk. Sitting in the theater ready to enjoy the show, discovered it did not work. Reason? No batteries in device. No batteries at the front desk, nor in the shop on board. Front desk's response - perhaps I could find some in port (eight days later.)

 

Hmmm.. I have worn hearing aids since I was 50 years old...It is both an inherited loss of hearing & failure to take precautions when we sat out on the observation decks for lunch & coffee breaks at JFK when jets were nearby..

 

Once in a while I've requested a listening device for the on board shows & fortunately they were always functional.. I actually find that many of the shows are too loud which forces me to remove one or both of my aids..:eek: But if I was told to get my own batteries, I would be sure to register a complaint with either the Hotel Mgr. or HAL Seattle....I hope you did just that!

 

 

I'm hoping that the compliance officer will be knowledgeable in both what is required and what is not required. I spent 78 days on the Amsterdam with what was obviously someone's pet dog. I don't know for a fact, but I've been told that the only service animals HAL has to permit onboard are dogs. I would much rather be onboard with a legitimate service monkey ... pig ... you-name-it than a pet dog with purchased service animal papers.

I agree with you! I have a registered "Therapy Dog" which I take to our local hospital & school.. I would never try to pass her off as a Service Dog, but have known people who actually do try to pass their dogs off as Service Dogs, when they are not..:( On one of our cruises, we met a Father/Daughter who had their dog on board.. I would have bet my last dollar that their dog was not trained properly & was not a Service Dog..

 

I work with a lady who actually trains Service Dogs from puppyhood to be Seeing eye dogs.. She & her DH keep the dogs for two years & then turns them over to "South Eastern Guide Dogs" for at least another year of training.. The dog is placed only with one person who needs the assistance.. If that person can't handle the dog (some are too large), or the dog does not pass muster due to size or temperament, our Friend's can adopt the dog..They have taken their Pup's in training on cruises,..Those dogs are extremely well trained, & would be welcome on any of our cruises...

 

The problem is the ADA rule says you can't question what the Handler's disability is.. You can only ask what the animal is trained to do.. I believe that HAL, some cruise Lines & many airlines are loathe to question the Dog's Handler as they are afraid they would be taken to court..

 

It's a shame that some people would take advantage!:(

Edited July 24, 2015 by serendipity1499

[OlsSalt]

T-Coil is great for hearing assistance instead of individual and trouble prone listening devices - do HAL ships offer this?

[serendipity1499]

Carnival Corporation is incorporated under the laws of Panama. There are many, many companies that are not incorporated in the US that are listed on the NYSE, and many of those have corporate headquarters in the US. And every one of Carnival Corp.'s subsidiary brands is incorporated overseas. These are not US corporations.

 

HAL's ships are incorporated in Rotterdam, but I believe that the new ruling applies to all those Carnival Corp. PLC & subsidiary's ships which port in the United States!

 

Quote D."Auxiliary Aids and Services", include: Qualified interpreters on-site or through video remote interpreting (VRI) services; note takers; real-time computer-aided transcription services; written materials; exchange of written notes; telephone handset amplifiers; assistive listening devices; assistive listening systems; telephones compatible with hearing aids; closed caption decoders; open and closed captioning, Unquote

 

I'm wondering if I should ask for a phone which is compatible with my hearing aids on my next cruise..I have one of those at home which the State of Florida gave me.. Has anyone asked for & received a compatible phone in their cabin?

Edited July 24, 2015 by serendipity1499

[Krazy Kruizers]

I was totally surprised to see that one of our 2 newspapers actually carried this report.