Cruising Alaska with Holland America- the Biggest Trap Ever

[BetterToBeSmarter]

Why do I say they set up the Biggest Tourist Trap Ever?

Because as a temporary US resident, you will never be given adequate information before you book the whole trip, check online and show on the pier with your whole family. And then boom! You will hear they telling you that you cannot get on the cruise as you don’t have proper documents! Afterwards, they will totally ignore your email to the Guest Relations and just simply take all your money away! So from when doing business becomes a merely robbing without services? If you don’t believe me, please be patient to read my entire story:

I booked a stateroom of Amsterdam, Holland American for three people, sailing to Alaska on July 12th 2015. We were denied to get on board because they said we didn’t get Canadian visas. During the whole process of booking the cruise and doing online check-in, I’ve been consulting the visa issues, here’s what I did and how Holland America responded:

1. I booked the cruise online through SmartCruiser in April 10th. Since my citizenship is Chinese, and my visa to US expires on June 23rd 2015, I called the agent to see if I can travel in July to Alaska. The one in SmartCruiser was not sure about that and asked me to call Holland America. So I called the toll free number and was given again another number of a so-called “Visa Center”. I called this Visa Center, and was told that within 90 days of the expiration of my American Visa, I can still travel within US, Canada and Mexico.

Attention: They didn’t say anything about acquiring Canadian visa, they said we CAN travel WITHIN these three countries in 90 days with our expiration of US visa! That was why I booked the cruise that day after making those calls.

2. I did our online check-in on April 24th, 2015. And the online system refused to check me in because it automatically denies my visa which would expire before the sailing date, without knowing the 90 days policy. So I called Holland America again regarding this visa issue, telling the agent that my daughter and I are Chinese citizens temporarily living in Arizona with almost expired visas, and my husband has got a new valid US visa to join us for the cruise trip. The lady at the other line said that there would be no problem and manually modified my visa date.

Attention again: I over and again addressed our citizenship and non-permanent resident status (which means we don’t have green cards, put it in a professional term), but I was not informed in any sense that we need Canadian visas to take the cruise. Have to mention: this all happened in April, if I was told by any of those agents that we need Canadian visas, we have plenty of time to apply!

3. I and my five-year old girl went all the way from Phoenix to Seattle and my husband from Shanghai China to cruise with Holland America and were given a denial letter by a Guest Relations lady.

I told her that I’ve consulted with different departments and agents. She said SmartCruiser is not smart and whoever I’ve spoken to didn’t give me the right information. She said if we booked directly with Holland America, there would be information about what documents we need on the website, which later on, turned out to be untrue. There were altogether eight Chinese who were led aside to a corner and we pleaded that she would check this with her supervisor again. She said she was pretty sure we could be none exceptional as this happened before. It truely did! As I later on searched, there are awful amount of Chinese people had the same experience, which almost convinces me that this business is taking advantage of independent Chinese travelers by tricking them into purchasing the Alaska cruise without informing them well enough on how to be qualified to get onboard! But at that point on the pier, I could not even have this assumption, as I was being busy trying to call the counselors and Holland America, but could reach none in a Sunday. We asked to see this guest relations lady again, but regretfully she said she would come soon but didn’t show up again.

4. In the denial letter, it says: “Details regarding travel documentation requirements are provided on the Holland America Line website and in the Holland America Line brochures. Information is noted in the ‘before You Go- Cruising FAQ’s’ section and the ‘Information’ sections online and in your Express Docs.”

The truth is, there is no such claimed “Details” exist. The only thing I found listed on the above sources concerning the visa part is: “Guests are responsible for verifying and obtaining any necessary travel documents for entry and exit to the countries visited, as these requirements vary depending on the specific port and nationality of the traveler. This includes payment of all costs related to arrangements to obtain entry to the countries you visit. Boarding may be denied or fines levied against those guests arriving at the pier without the proper documentation, and those guests will not be eligible for a refund. “

The only thing this service provided here is reminding us that THEY will be waived of any responsibilities if WE don’t have the proper documents. But what are the proper documents? Their website asked us to fill in our nationality and destination but didn’t say what kinds of documents we need. It is always the same statement, no matter what your destination and nationality are. So I’ve called to figure out what are the proper documents, but was completely misled.

5. I called SmartCruiser number after we were denied on board. It was on July 29th, 12:45pm ET, one day before I left US. I was yelled and taught a lesson by an agent without even knowing my name and booking details. She insisted that I must not have called them while I booked online. She then said that document requirement was listed on the booking page, but I told her the only statement as such is: “Proper documentation, including passport validity and/or applicable visa requirements are the sole responsibility of each passenger traveling. This information must be verified with each consulate for every country and respective port visited on your cruise. Passengers traveling without complete and proper documentation MAY BE DENIED BOARDING ON DAY OF DEPARTURE WITHOUT REFUND! ” , which is very similar to Holland America’s Edocs’.

I questioned that there is no specification of required documents. She said there is not possible to provide detailed information.

Anyone who has a little knowledge of programming from their computer classes would have known that it is not just possible but easy to do, if the system is properly designed. As I’ve said, we’ve input our citizenship and destination, it should appear on our Edocs exactly what documents we need instead of by saying “proper documentation”, which means nothing in details. Only by providing the specification of information, can we call it a proper service.

There is sharp difference between “don’t want to do” and “cannot do”. If that proper service has not been taken into account before, we could call it “inconsiderate”/ “bad” service or as “a slip of mistake”. But with huge number of guests, particularly Chinese passengers were denied to get on board, it might not be an assumption but could be a conclusion that they are taking advantage of certain group of people and hiding important information from them. I found out overwhelmingly number of Chinese had this on-board denial experiences on Chinese BBS but it was not exposed much on English-based media probably because they are mostly short-term visitors with some sort of language barrier.

As a professor from tourism major, I did know Chinese market is the biggest growing tourist market and very lucrative but Chinese tourists are far much more constrained by visa issues than those from developed countries who travel equally often (like Japanese). So it would be easily guessed that Chinese are number 1 victims from their unspecified visa policies. Trust me, subjective as it might sound, it would be an objective fact.

To make the situation even more puzzling in this case is that: Alaska is part of US, and the cruise’s destination is Alaska. The guest relations lady from Holland America explained that we would sail through Canada, and even if we promise not to land on Victoria, we could be evacuated to Canada in case of emergency. That seemed to be a weak excuse too. We cruised to the Caribbean in March and landed a couple of independent countries which require no visa at all.

In one word, in this Alaska cruise case, by not addressing the Canadian visa issue publically online, it seems to be more deliberately tricky to foreigners.

6. I contacted online the Guest Relations from Holland America in Aug 2nd 2015, as soon as I got back to China. I told them the whole story and asked for refund. So far, more than two weeks have passed, they gave me zero reply.

After being hung up by the insane SmartCruiser agent, I thought it was better contact Holland America directly. I asked if they have any doubt of what I’ve described, they can track the audio telephone record, and I provided my US telephone number back then. Well, I guess I’m wrong again!! Not only did they do no investigation, but they could totally ignore you!!! Probably they figured you’re far away from US and have to be another easy victim anyway!?

I’ve travelled independently to 5 different continents and 40 states in US; this whole process of cruising (could hardly call it a “cruising” this time though) really tops the worst traveling experiences I’ve ever had!

I still cannot believe that they could simply walk away like nothing ever happened! My friend said: “To keep your money for no services rendered is criminal!” True! But who’s going to give our justice back??

[kazu]

All I can say is that I would never travel with expired documents nor expect them to be honoured. Heck, it's recommended that your passport have at least 6 months until expiry.

 

Sorry this happened but Alaska is not a trap. You do have to clear Canadian Customs and just as when I must clear U.S. Customs, you do need to meet their criteria.

[3rdGenCunarder]

I find it odd that someone at HAL would modify your visa date in the Voyage Personalizer. Then your HAL documents wouldn't match your actual documents, which is almost a guarantee of trouble.

 

Anyone who's a citizen of country A, living in country B (with expired documents), and wanting to travel to country C is in a complicated situation. The fact that you kept asking shows that you know this. But you asked the wrong people.

 

I'm sorry that you didn't get to take your cruise, but this should be a lesson to anyone who reads this thread. If you're in doubt about documents, contact the State Department (or whatever it's called ) in the countries you'll visit. Start by reading their websites to see exactly what is required. If you need more information, the website will give you contact information.

[sapper1]

Why didn't you check with the proper Canadian government agency to see what documentation you required to travel to Canada? You also could have checked the Canadian government's website. Why trust that the person who answers the phone at HAL knows all about foreign government regulations?

 

Holland America just sells you the cruise ticket. The onus is on you to have proper documents. Any other cruise line would have had to refuse you boarding as well. If you had purchased Holland America's "cancel for any reason" insurance you would have received 90% of your money back.

 

I don't think you will generate much sympathy here as you knew you were travelling with expired Visas. It was a hard lesson for sure.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Sorry that this happened to you.

But rules are rules.

I would never attempt to go anywhere with expired documents.

We even renew our passports early just to make certain that we are within the 6 month limit for cruises and countries.

[take us away]

So sorry that this has happened to your family but you did not research your requirements.

 

All documents are very clear that you are responsible for regulations for each country from HAL and obviously from the agency you used and what the ramifications will be if not followed.

 

You are responsible for what is required under YOUR CHINESE PASSPORT - not your US visa - for visiting Canada.

 

Per the HAL website under Do I Need a Visa:

 

"Canadian visa requirements affecting all Alaska sailings, Alaska tours and Canada & New England sailings that enter Canada:

 

If you are a NON-U.S. or NON-CANADIAN citizen, you will be DENIED BOARDING without compensation if you do not hold the proper VISA documents! Regardless of what your Consulate official may advise, Canadian officials WILL NOT allow guests to remain onboard while in a Canadian port without proper documentation, so you will be denied boarding if the visa is not presented at the pier at the time of your scheduled cruise departure. To learn more, please visit: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/index.asp

 

U.S. citizens are NOT required to obtain a Canadian Visa. To verify if your nationality requires a Canadian visa, please visit the following Canadian immigration website, which may be useful to determine what is required: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/visas.asp"

 

The above referenced Canadian visa website says that if your passport is from People’s Republic of China (and you do not have a US green card) that you need a visa to visit or transit Canada.

Edited August 18, 2015 by take us away

[DeeniEncinitas]

I agree with all my CC members!

First you need to be hyper vigilant !! Always looking to the future and being focused on your documentations. Even if it were me, no way would I booked a cruise until I got all my ducks in a row with visas etc.

Sorry to hear you misfortune and money lost, but it is a lesson learned.

I do not agree with your comments about Alaska Trap!!

You unfortunately trapped yourself in this predicament.

Denise:)

[sppunk]

I'm not sorry Holland America followed the law and didn't allow you to sail illegally.

 

Actually, this wasn't a HAL decision but a CBP decision. I'm really not sorry CBP officers prohibited you sailing without proper documentation.

[3rdGenCunarder]

I agree with all my CC members!

First you need to be hyper vigilant !! Always looking to the future and being focused on your documentations. Even if it were me, no way would I booked a cruise until I got all my ducks in a row with visas etc.Sorry to hear you misfortune and money lost, but it is a lesson learned.

I do not agree with your comments about Alaska Trap!!

You unfortunately trapped yourself in this predicament.

Denise:)

 

I will book first, but the next thing I do is look at our passports to make sure they'll be valid for the travel dates. And then I start checking into visas. All well before deadlines.

[Aquahound]

BetterToBeSmarter: She said if we booked directly with Holland America, there would be information about what documents we need on the website, which later on, turned out to be untrue

 

You're wrong about that. It certainly is true, and it was very easy to find. Here's a link:

 

http://www.hollandamerica.com/cruise-vacation-planning/PlanningAndAdvice.action?tabName=Cruise+Preparation&contentMenu=Passports,+Visas+%26+Vaccinations&WT.ac=pnav_FBG_EssentialDocs#

 

click "Do I need a visa"

 

Sorry you were denied boarding but next time, hopefully you'll take the advice of your screen name.

Edited August 18, 2015 by Aquahound

[Alberta Quilter]

I suspect that the reasons that HAL nor the travel agency post the exact requirements for each country's entry requirements would be onerous to research as these are updated frequently. And, just because one did not require Visas to enter the Caribbean does not mean that the same rules apply to enter Canada. Every country has their own rules, even China.

 

The reasons that the HAL guest relations person gave are valid. There is a real chance that a pax, on an Alaskan cruise, would be evacuated to Canada in a medical emergency, not to mention the port stop in Victoria.

 

As for HAL keeping your money, well, they, on good faith that you had the proper travel documents, had your stateroom available for your use right up until you were denied embarkation. They cannot resell your cabin by that time.

 

I understand that it's disappointing but it does seem to be clear that the onus was on you to contact the Canadian authorities for entry information.

[DeeniEncinitas]

I will book first, but the next thing I do is look at our passports to make sure they'll be valid for the travel dates. And then I start checking into visas. All well before deadlines.

 

Did you see etc? All included.

Denise:)

[Lizzie68]

So familiar - scream discrimination whenever you don't like the rules. I used to hear that a lot where I worked. Your own fault, you didn't take responsibility for checking you had the correct paperwork, and you admit yourself your visa had expired. The information is readily available and you therefore should have been well aware of visa requirements -no one else is responsible for ensuring that. No sympathy here. Holland America was NOT discriminating against groups of Chinese nationals - they were simply following the laws and requirements.

[Susie51]

As a professor of tourism, you should know not to travel with expired documents.

[Fouremco]

Your e-docs say it all:

 

Visas: Certain countries require that you obtain official authorization

(called a visa) before entering the country, and some countries require

that you obtain a visa regardless of whether you plan to go ashore in

that particular port or not. Usually there is a fee required. Guests are

responsible for verifying and obtaining any necessary travel

documents for entry and exit to the countries visited, as these

requirements vary depending on the specific port and nationality of

the traveler. This includes payment of all costs related to

arrangements to obtain entry to the countries you visit. Boarding

may be denied or fines levied against those guests arriving at the

pier without the proper documentation, and those guests will not be

eligible for a refund.

 

The bolding is HAL's, not mine.

 

The e-docs also contain a link to Visa Central:

 

Holland America Line provides guests with the following link to

VisaCentral as a service to assist with the collection of necessary

documents. Applications and additional information may be

downloaded from their website:

http://hollandamerica.visacentral.com

 

Had you pursued the link, you would have seen the visa requirement and the recommendation that you contact the nearest consular office. You claim that you telephoned Visa Central and were told that no visa was required to enter Canada, but if this was the case, I suggest that you either didn't provide full details of your status or that there was a communication problem.

 

The bottom line is that you are responsible for your documentation. HAL can not take you on board knowing that you don't have a Canadian visa and was obliged to deny you passage. Unfortunate, but there it is.

[Dave in NJ]

The original poster's story just stretches rational thinking well past the breaking point - and to blame it on someone other than himself is mind-boggling. And if I read it correctly, would he not have already been in the US at the time of cruise departure beyond the expiration of his visa and thus here illegally an probably subject to deportation? Or perhaps I read it incorrectly.

[OlsSalt]

Reminds me of the craziness we faced when trying to get a Chinese visa in Los Angeles.

 

They refused to issue one last time because we could not show them confirmed paper copies of hotel reservations or flight plans in and out of China, ........ because we were on a cruise ship that was making only port stops in China.

 

We had to abandon our passports to them overnight (instead of the one-day turnaround promised) and get copies of all our cruise documents so a supervisor could review the application. Which required a return visit to the Los Angeles office. And they darn well demanded we have a passport that did not expire within six months and enough empty visa pages for them to stamp.

Edited August 18, 2015 by OlsSalt

[Fouremco]

The original poster's story just stretches rational thinking well past the breaking point - and to blame it on someone other than himself is mind-boggling. And if I read it correctly, would he not have already been in the US at the time of cruise departure beyond the expiration of his visa and thus here illegally an probably subject to deportation? Or perhaps I read it incorrectly.

No, she does say that her visa expired on June 23 and the cruise was July 12, so you read it correctly.

 

At one point she says: "I called this Visa Center, and was told that within 90 days of the expiration of my American Visa, I can still travel within US, Canada and Mexico", and I wonder if she interprets "within 90 says" as including the 90 days FOLLOWING the expiry of her visa. In which case, she may well be in the US illegally.

[Dave in NJ]

Well, I guess it's possible one could have interpreted "within 90 days" to mean 90 days after expiration, not 90 days before. But then, the meaning of "expiration" is not ambiguous. What part of expired, kaput, no longer valid did they fail to recognize?

Edited August 18, 2015 by Dave in NJ

[Essiesmom]

No, she does say that her visa expired on June 23 and the cruise was July 12, so you read it correctly.

 

At one point she says: "I called this Visa Center, and was told that within 90 days of the expiration of my American Visa, I can still travel within US, Canada and Mexico", and I wonder if she interprets "within 90 says" as including the 90 days FOLLOWING the expiry of her visa. In which case, she may well be in the US illegally.

 

This. And, if the cruise line had let her sail, she might not have been admitted back into the US at the end of the cruise. EM

[Fouremco]

Well, I guess it's possible one could have interpreted "within 90 days" to mean 90 days after expiration, not 90 days before. But then, the meaning of "expiration" is not ambiguous.

Think of all those warranty cards we used to have to fill in and mail off "within 30 days of purchase" or similar wording. Clearly that was 30 days AFTER purchase.

 

Take a look at the wording here, first result from a quick Google search:

http://www.flowerhouses.com/content/WarrantyCard.JPG

[Dave in NJ]

I would be pretty hard to turn in a dated register receipt BEFORE purchase.

[Fouremco]

I would be pretty hard to turn in a dated register receipt BEFORE purchase.

Of course. All I'm saying is that "within 90 days" is subject to interpretation. Native English speakers normally understand the meaning based on context, an understanding that the OP might not share.

 

If my doctor prescribed a single dose pill to take "within 3 days" of a pending operation, I'd be darned certain to verify whether he meant before or after! :)

[IRL_Joanie]

So sorry that this has happened to your family but you did not research your requirements.

 

All documents are very clear that you are responsible for regulations for each country from HAL and obviously from the agency you used and what the ramifications will be if not followed.

 

You are responsible for what is required under YOUR CHINESE PASSPORT - not your US visa - for visiting Canada.

 

Per the HAL website under Do I Need a Visa:

 

"Canadian visa requirements affecting all Alaska sailings, Alaska tours and Canada & New England sailings that enter Canada:

 

If you are a NON-U.S. or NON-CANADIAN citizen, you will be DENIED BOARDING without compensation if you do not hold the proper VISA documents! Regardless of what your Consulate official may advise, Canadian officials WILL NOT allow guests to remain onboard while in a Canadian port without proper documentation, so you will be denied boarding if the visa is not presented at the pier at the time of your scheduled cruise departure. To learn more, please visit: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/index.asp

 

U.S. citizens are NOT required to obtain a Canadian Visa. To verify if your nationality requires a Canadian visa, please visit the following Canadian immigration website, which may be useful to determine what is required: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/visas.asp"

 

The above referenced Canadian visa website says that if your passport is from People’s Republic of China (and you do not have a US green card) that you need a visa to visit or transit Canada.

 

There it is, directly from the HAL website under: Do I Need a Visa.

 

Sorry OP, but as this poster pointed out it is on the HAL site and you apparently by passed this section.

 

Do you think that China would be any more lax with their requirements for us, as US citizens if we tried to visit China? I do not and I do not blame any country trying to maintain their laws or....

 

Hope you are able to visit other places around the world, by land, air or sea, without this predicament you placed yourself in this time, in the future.

 

HAL was/is not to blame in this case.

 

Joanie

[DaveOKC]

No, she does say that her visa expired on June 23 and the cruise was July 12, so you read it correctly.

 

At one point she says: "I called this Visa Center, and was told that within 90 days of the expiration of my American Visa, I can still travel within US, Canada and Mexico", and I wonder if she interprets "within 90 says" as including the 90 days FOLLOWING the expiry of her visa. In which case, she may well be in the US illegally.

 

Perhaps the person he/she spoke with on the phone was not clear enough and the OP misunderstood. To me it is pretty obvious that you cannot travel on EXPIRED documents, but to someone else it may not have been obvious. Also, some people hear what they want to hear in these situations.