Problems in Europe

[CrossBluePerchance]

In just under six weeks we're flying to Europe; after a week in Genoa we head to Marseille for a 9 day Med/Adriatic cruise.

 

Online news indicates the migrant problem is worsening; Germany has closed its border with Austria, (and we are of the opinion that, when the current wave of optimism among these tens of thousands of, (mainly), young guys is quashed, (as it must be), then things will deteriorate even further, and very quickly). If we weren't committed, and in a non-refundable situation, we'd think twice (or more) about considering a trip at this time.

 

Anyone else in a similar situation? Anyone currently in the region who can provide some input?

[cruisemom42]

Europe is a pretty big "region". On the one hand you mention that you'll be in Italy and France, and in the next breath you're talking about Germany and Hungary....

 

I was just in Romania for a couple of weeks and while the migrant issues are a big news item, there was no impact whatsoever on my trip. I suspect you will find the same to be true unless you are going to be in one of the centers where there are refugee camps and/or migrant demonstrations.

[Floridiana]

Germany has closed its border with Austria

 

Not quite. Trains from Germany to Austria are running. People with valid traveling papers (passport for you and me) can cross the border in any direction. Used to be like that before the Schengen agreement.

 

And you are going nowhere near the itineraries used by the refugees. It's almost like saying you can't visit Vancouver because the woods in California are burning.

Edited September 13, 2015 by Floridiana

[CrossBluePerchance]

Europe is a pretty big "region". On the one hand you mention that you'll be in Italy and France, and in the next breath you're talking about Germany and Hungary....

 

I don't believe I mentioned Hungary. That aside, the 'migrant directional map' shown on the attached link indicates that one of the flows runs northwards through Italy, and appears to veer westward around Genoa, (one of the places we'll be), towards Marseille, where we'll also be.

 

If the previously mentioned Austrian/German border remains restricted then, in all likelihood, those migrants intending to use that route will also head west.

 

We'll be traveling between Genoa & Marseille by bus/train, so I don't believe that it's untoward to be concerned about massive congestion around bus depots and train stations, and we'd appreciate feedback from anyone there now, or who has been there recently.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3232744/We-t-German-authorities-call-urgent-action-migrant-crisis-locals-say-Munich-brink-humanitarian-disaster.html

[CrossBluePerchance]

Not quite. Trains from Germany to Austria are running. People with valid traveling papers (passport for you and me) can cross the border in any direction. Used to be like that before the Schengen agreement.

 

And you are going nowhere near the itineraries used by the refugees. It's almost like saying you can't visit Vancouver because the woods in California are burning.

 

We are not concerned about people with valid traveling papers - we are concerned that those with no papers at all, if they are refused entry, will redirect, thus increasing the numbers of those apparently in the area(s) we'll be.

Edited September 13, 2015 by CrossBluePerchance

[John Bull]

We are not concerned about people with valid traveling papers - we are concerned that those with no papers at all, if they are refused entry, will redirect, thus increasing the numbers of those apparently in the area(s) we'll be.

 

You need to accept what others on this thread have told you.:rolleyes:

The situation doesn't affect & won't affect Genoa or Marseilles or the region between them. Plain & simple.

 

JB :)

[maywell]

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Europe/@46.1405643,10.8256487,6.5z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x46ed8886cfadda85:0x72ef99e6b3fcf079

 

 

You're literally on the other side of Austria, no where near the 3 problem countries. Relax and enjoy your trip!

[CrossBluePerchance]

On the link I posted there was a map with the following information:

 

Libya to Italy: Of the migrants who have crossed the Mediterranean in 2015, 104,000 landed in Italy.

 

Looking at the route through Italy to Calais, it appears that Genoa and Marseille are on the way.

[maywell]

On the link I posted there was a map with the following information:

 

Libya to Italy: Of the migrants who have crossed the Mediterranean in 2015, 104,000 landed in Italy.

 

Looking at the route through Italy to Calais, it appears that Genoa and Marseille are on the way.

 

Okay, No offense - Cancel your trip if you're that concern about the immigrant problem ruining your vacation plans. Really, if it worries you that much than don't go, spare yourself the grief of wondering if going to run across migrants while enjoying Genoa and Marseille.

 

Its not to be mean but at some point you going to have to deal with unpleasant things while traveling and learn to toughen up if want to see parts of the world, even the supposedly safe places. If you think that the worst than stop by certain parts of US where we deal with illegals and homeless people all the freaking time. Personally, Europe is finally dealing with what the US has been going through for decades with illegal immigration - Welcome to the club.

[rvsullivan]

One suggestion. A few have tried to reassure you and it seems you are going to worry about this no matter what. I would suggest you call your version of the State Department and tell them your trip plans and ask what they have to say. If you want to be reassured, they may be the ones to do it for you. However, if they are anything like our State Department, they tend to lean towards being very conservative. If you can't be reassured, then it may be best to cancel your plans.

No matter what any of us tell you, you will have to determine your comfort level.

In addition, the maps you posted are so broad, you can have no clue where the travel paths are. They are attempting to show the countries being traveled, not the cities they are traveling through. It's not like there is a main highway they follow, just a generic path through each country.

Edited September 14, 2015 by rvsullivan

[CrossBluePerchance]

Its not to be mean but at some point you going to have to deal with unpleasant things while traveling and learn to toughen up if want to see parts of the world, even the supposedly safe places.

 

We appear to be going slightly off track here, since we were originally requesting current first hand information from people in the areas mentioned.

 

(As per 'toughen up'...DH has been in and across (overland) Turkey, Syria, Iraq, Iran & Pakistan; he spent the better part of a decade in Saudi Arabia, and has visited (among numerous other places) Yemen, Egypt, Tunisia & Morocco...so it's not as if we've never been outside the house.)

 

Basically we just want to know if we can anticipate itinerary disruptions in, and/or between, Genoa & Marseille.

[zqvol]

OP:

 

You have two choices.

 

1. Go and enjoy yourself, while taking normal precautions that you do when you travel

 

2. Bite the bullet and cancel over unfounded fears, and kick yourself for making this decision.

 

You clearly don't want to believe what many seasoned travelers have told you so you are stuck making your own decision.

[cruisemom42]

 

Basically we just want to know if we can anticipate itinerary disruptions in, and/or between, Genoa & Marseille.

 

I read several travel boards daily for Italy and have not heard anything about itinerary disruptions such as you mention.

 

I suggest for first-hand info you consider posting on Tripadvisor's local forums where there are often locals who may be able to provide the info you're seeking.

 

(I meant to type Austria above, but had been just reading about the disputes between Germany and Hungary and my fingers were faster than my brain.)

[Floridiana]

None of French newspapers report any issues of passenger congestion in Marseille's train station or on the line along the Cote d'Azur. A huge influx of refugees would be reported immediately, don't you think so?

[sail7seas]

My friends returned just yesterday from a stay in Prague, a riverboat cruise down the Danube and ended with a stay in Budapest. They kept their political opinions to themselves and they had no issues at all. They always felt safe and had no difficulties.

 

[sail7seas]

We appear to be going slightly off track here, since we were originally requesting current first hand information from people in the areas mentioned.

 

(As per 'toughen up'...DH has been in and across (overland) Turkey, Syria, Iraq, Iran & Pakistan; he spent the better part of a decade in Saudi Arabia, and has visited (among numerous other places) Yemen, Egypt, Tunisia & Morocco...so it's not as if we've never been outside the house.)

 

Basically we just want to know if we can anticipate itinerary disruptions in, and/or between, Genoa & Marseille.

 

It sounds like your DH is well able to look after both of you while you can enjoy your trip. If for some reason you find things are uncomfortable for you, get a flight home. It may cost a bit to change your ticket but if it gives you peace of mind.......

 

The chances unless something dramatic happens in the immediate future, you should be fine. Use the usual traveler's common sense and awareness of their surroundings.

 

Hope you have a wonderful trip.

 

[SPacificbound]

We are leaving tomorrow for a two month trip that includes 3 weeks land, part of that is in Germany including Munich, and then most of the month of October will be on a ship in the Mediterranean.

 

We have never thought for even a minute about canceling. I expect to see tighter security than previous times spent in Europe, and I expect more passport control.

 

I hope you are able to enjoy your trip.

[headhunterke]

This would be the exact same thing as me asking if it's safe to visit the U.S. because of all the illegal Mexican immigrants crossing the border.

 

Unless you go visit the spots where the refugees gather, you won't even notice it.

Of course, don't get yourselves near the camps and trainstations where these people await further transportation and keep any political views on this matter to yourselves, specially in public. Because that's the only time things heat up. It's a sensitive subject to many people here in Europe and a discussion about this may be one of the last things you want.

I live right in between Germany and France and while things aren't nice looking where they enter the Shengen zone, don't expect thousands wandering the streets looking for help.

 

Imho, your worries aren't really necessary. Just my two cents.

Have a wonderful trip.

Edited September 14, 2015 by headhunterke

[sfaaa]

OP has a point to worry. It's a fluid and unpredictable situation that can turn ugly without warning. Every time a country loses control of its own border, bad things usually happen.

[headhunterke]

This "problem" has been going on for a much longer time than the last 2 weeks.

But the media jumped onto it, so it's in the bright spotlights. You are right that things can change in the blink of an eye, but isn't that the case with pretty much any situation nowadays?

 

While there certainly is a larger stream of immigrants compared to last year, but it's not nearly as bad that Europe's outer border is on the verge of crumbling down.

Yes, Germany has enforced passport checks on its eastern and south eastern border but that's mainly to control the stream.

There is a large group of immigrants entering Europe, but they spread out over a large number of countries. A lot of them are in transit through France, Austria & Germany to other destinations in Europe.

And trust me, they know better than to cause havoc because if they are caught doing something illegal, they are sent back to their home country without the chance of applying for refuge. Those coming from a war zone will not risk causing a riot. Yes, they have raised their voice before, but that was mainly because of a poorly managed situation in Hungary.

 

Some problems do exist however, but those are on the outer border of Europe where a lot of immigrants try to get into Shengen: Hungary.

Most of them making it as far as Germany are legit refugees as Hungary has enacted a strict border control and even uses its army to enforce it near the border with non-Schengen.

Edited September 14, 2015 by headhunterke

[iancal]

Don't bother with the do called news reports. They are hyped up to the pint of bring entertainment instead of news. CNN is probably the worst offender.

 

We have been in Greece for two weeks, with another three weeks to go. No issues. Just as there have never been any issues in each of the past five years when we have travelled through Europe-especially Greece and Turkey.

 

Don't spend a moment thinking about it. Doing so will rob you of the pleasure of anticipation. Just go and have a wonderful trip. Don't listen to any of the naysayers....especially the ones that do not have a clue about what they are talking about or get all of their info from 15 second spots on the television.

[John Bull]

On the link I posted there was a map with the following information:

 

Libya to Italy: Of the migrants who have crossed the Mediterranean in 2015, 104,000 landed in Italy.

 

Looking at the route through Italy to Calais, it appears that Genoa and Marseille are on the way.

 

The map you linked, like all media maps on the subject, is diagrammatic & painted with broad sweeps.

Which makes it look like WW2 all over again. :rolleyes:

 

Ignore that diagrammatic map - neither Genoa nor Marseilles are on the way from southern Italy to Calais. And few of those arriving in Italy will be making their way to Calais - most will be heading for Germany & Sweden, which are much more welcoming than the UK. Calais is highlighted because it's a UK newspaper (and very right-wing) & because of a large makeshift camp near the port - it's been there for literally decades. Almost all there are economic migrants rather than refugees, attempting to enter the UK which is not part of the Schengen group & has usual border controls. Much like the Mexican border but without the lines.

We're just back from a road trip to France, Belgium & Germany and only saw migrants at Calais. All the same as usual over the years, and no delays - truckers are the only folk to have significant problems at Calais.

 

Migrants arriving by boat to southern Italy are registered in southern Italy - which makes them legal, at least temporarily. There aren't the large unmanaged groups that have been seen further east where some Schengen countries simply allow them to pass through & others such as Hungary attempt to implement Schengen policy of registration in the first Schengen country. But even there, the large groups of refugees are or have been at pinch-points such as Bodrum Turkey, Kos Greece, or Budapest rail station. Avoid such places & you probably won't even see a single refugee.

 

Total population of Italy 60,000,000. Total immigrants this year arriving in southern Italy 105,000.

Total population 420.000.000 of European Schengen countries. Total immigrants arriving in Schengen Europe this year 500,000.

In both cases under two tenths of one per cent.

 

Your understanding & your worries are way off-beam and I'm very surprised that with his experience of middle-eastern countries your DH hasn't been able to put your mind at rest. :confused:

 

If we haven't now convinced you now, we never will.

 

JB :)

Edited September 14, 2015 by John Bull

[CrossBluePerchance]

Thank you all for your responses.

 

As an attempt at clarification: We have a very narrow window for our pre/post cruise connections Genoa/Marseille and return - we have booked & paid in advance for bus/rail connections; therefore, as noted, we were/are concerned about possible interruptions which could cause us to miss the cruise, and/or our return flight to Toronto from Genoa, thus our concern that we might be impeded at one of the terminals.

 

(Direct flights Genoa/Marseille are almost non-existent; most flight routings are through Paris, or other hubs, with extremely long layovers, so that idea was discarded almost from day one.)

 

We do not watch TV, period, so we haven't been influenced by that particular medium - we have, however, observed this situation unfolding for some time by reading online reports, but were unsure as to whether the particular routes we are utilizing would be directly affected.

 

As has been suggested we will monitor such sites as TripAdvisor in an attempt to obtain local real time reports as to exactly what the current situations are.

 

Thank you again.

Edited September 14, 2015 by CrossBluePerchance

[CrossBluePerchance]

.....and I'm very surprised that with his experience of middle-eastern countries your DH hasn't been able to put your mind at rest.

 

DH says that it's because of rather than in spite of his MENA experiences that he has expressed some 'concerns'. ;)

[Cruise Junky]

(Direct flights Genoa/Marseille are almost non-existent; most flight routings are through Paris, or other hubs, with extremely long layovers, so that idea was discarded almost from day one.)

 

.

 

The drop fee might be around $300 but it's not that far of a drive from Genoa to Marseille if you were to run into problems.