Changing Planes in Paris (CDG)

[Cyber Kat]

Flyertalk is a very popular message board full of good information (and some crap:rolleyes:)

 

Lots of us follow both;)

 

 

LOL - good to know!

[Cyber Kat]

Thank you all for your very helpful commentary. I decided I can deal with landing at JFK a lot better than doing the plane change in Paris - even if it means I can't yet add Paris to the list of places I've been! :cool:

 

I called Viking - couple of quick minutes and we are now booked on the direct, non-stop flight from Zurich to JFK. I feel so much better! :D

 

There is another advantage - the flight leaves Zurich 2 ours later than the first flight we had, so we won't have to rush around there either. The flight is on a Sunday, so traffic won't be too bad coming back to Jersey from JFK.

 

Thanks again everyone!

[Di Princess]

Wise decision, Cat. ;)

[Host Jazzbeau]

Thank you all for your very helpful commentary. I decided I can deal with landing at JFK a lot better than doing the plane change in Paris - even if it means I can't yet add Paris to the list of places I've been! :cool:

 

I called Viking - couple of quick minutes and we are now booked on the direct, non-stop flight from Zurich to JFK. I feel so much better! :D

 

There is another advantage - the flight leaves Zurich 2 ours later than the first flight we had, so we won't have to rush around there either. The flight is on a Sunday, so traffic won't be too bad coming back to Jersey from JFK.

 

Thanks again everyone!

 

And a third advantage -- your luggage is almost certain to arrive home with you!

[FlyerTalker]

One more terminology note for today:

 

Even a "direct" flight may involve changing aircraft along the way. "Direct" means that there is no change of flight number. However all USA carriers do what is known as a "change of gauge". This is where a flight number goes from one USA city to a hub, then changes aircraft for the overseas portion of the trip. The airline can advertise and sell a "direct flight" even though it both stops and changes planes.

 

An example is DL flight 160....it flies from LAS to MSP to AMS. The first segment is on a MD-90, the second is an A330. So pax have to get off the first plane and get to the second. There is only 49 minutes between scheduled arrival and departure. Yet DL can now sell this a "direct service" from Las Vegas to Amsterdam. And an unwitting customer thinks they will be on a non-stop. Or at worse, a same-plane stop at MSP.

 

Deceptive? Perhaps. Legal? Yep. Which is why you need to know the lingo.

[Cyber Kat]

One more terminology note for today:

 

Even a "direct" flight may involve changing aircraft along the way. "Direct" means that there is no change of flight number. However all USA carriers do what is known as a "change of gauge". This is where a flight number goes from one USA city to a hub, then changes aircraft for the overseas portion of the trip. The airline can advertise and sell a "direct flight" even though it both stops and changes planes.

 

An example is DL flight 160....it flies from LAS to MSP to AMS. The first segment is on a MD-90, the second is an A330. So pax have to get off the first plane and get to the second. There is only 49 minutes between scheduled arrival and departure. Yet DL can now sell this a "direct service" from Las Vegas to Amsterdam. And an unwitting customer thinks they will be on a non-stop. Or at worse, a same-plane stop at MSP.

 

Deceptive? Perhaps. Legal? Yep. Which is why you need to know the lingo.

 

Thanks for all the info - it's non-stop. I ticked that box when I looked up the flight on the Delta site. I gave Viking the flight # We are good to go!

[CPT Trips]

Our TA flight out of Schipol had us in a gate area with no restrooms after security. That was problematic as the security staff wanted to know why I left and reentered the gate area. (When you gotta go, you gotta go didn't seem to be the right answer.) The second interview was more intense than the initial one. I also do not recall there being water available at the gate either.

[rjscott]

Our TA flight out of Schipol had us in a gate area with no restrooms after security. That was problematic as the security staff wanted to know why I left and reentered the gate area. (When you gotta go, you gotta go didn't seem to be the right answer.) The second interview was more intense than the initial one. I also do not recall there being water available at the gate either.

 

We've encountered that at Schipol as well.

 

Becki

[pvlinda]

We are scheduled for a connecting flight In Paris to Nuremberg in about 10 days. I use wheelchair assistance and the last time I flew into and out of Paris, getting wheelchair assistance was a pain in the ass (literally). Air France/Delta had everyone using this service wait til everyone was off the plane, then had us exit from the rear onto a truck with an elevated platform. Then we were taken to a holding area, where we had to wait what seemed forever for someone to come and give us assistance. I was very poorly organized and the other passengers were very confused and irate about the process. The return flight setup was poor as well, requiring us to checkin at a special handicapped section and wait til a chair was brought to transport me to the gate. This trip we have a 2hr 30 min. layover, I hope this go a lot smoother this go around.

[FlyerTalker]

One thing to make clear is whether you need a wheelchair inside the plane, or just from the door onwards.

[Hydrokitty]

We are scheduled for a connecting flight In Paris to Nuremberg in about 10 days. I use wheelchair assistance and the last time I flew into and out of Paris, getting wheelchair assistance was a pain in the ass (literally). Air France/Delta had everyone using this service wait til everyone was off the plane, then had us exit from the rear onto a truck with an elevated platform. Then we were taken to a holding area, where we had to wait what seemed forever for someone to come and give us assistance. I was very poorly organized and the other passengers were very confused and irate about the process. The return flight setup was poor as well, requiring us to checkin at a special handicapped section and wait til a chair was brought to transport me to the gate. This trip we have a 2hr 30 min. layover, I hope this go a lot smoother this go around.

 

Not just Paris, pvinda.....I have had the same experience in Frankfort....a couple of times....once I was told there were no w/c available and I would have to walk "a short distance" to a cart. After about 15 minutes walking I sat down and told them "NO MORE" and waited for a w/c. This last time out of Schipol when I got to the waiting area for transport to the international departure wing. There were several others waiting for attendants to take them in their w/c to their gate. One of them was listening to her name being called for "final boarding" and the airport representative could do nothing....finally attendant showed up for someone else and we all insisted that he take this lady first (I had a 4 hour layover anyway)...don't know if she made her flight. I have never seen such poor service anywhere and the poor representative was almost in tears because all she could do was keep calling but nobody came. KLM said they have no control over the w/c attendants..they are employed by the airport not the airline...but it was disgraceful.

[FlyerTalker]

At non-USA airports, there is often less "assistance" available/provided that what you get at USA airport. Even in Canada, there are significant differences in what is provided.

 

Very simple rule of thumb. If you need assistance to get from gate to gate at a non-USA airport, add a MINIMUM of one hour to whatever you might normally consider for a connection. If you are in a second or third world airport, add in even more.

 

The KL agent was probably correct. At most airports, wheelchair/handicapped assistance/carts are a function of the airport authority, not the airline itself. Not justifying it, but explaining. The airline will do what they can because folks will think it is their fault - but they have the same constraint for everyone - a finite number of folks to assist and an potentially infinite number of those needing the assist.

 

Flyertalker tip for the post: Remember - you do NOT have to just take the connection provided by the airline computer. It is programmed to give the shortest connect and/or cheapest connect. Very often, you can take a later flight at no fare differential. The rule to remember: for a domestic flight, you can have a connection of up to: a) four hours or b) the next flight out, whichever is longer. For an international itinerary, change "a" to 24 hours.

 

This means: if you are flying internationally, you can deliberately take a connection that is longer than what they offer as long as it is under 24 hours. So, for example, you could arrive into Paris at 11am. As long as your departing onward flight is not later than 10:59 the next day, you could stay overnight in Paris. See the sights, have a nice dinner and leave refreshed the next day, rather than dashing through the airport. You could even combine this with the same "trick" at JFK. Arrive there, spend the night, perhaps taking in a Broadway show, then leave the next morning. As long as the connection is under 24 hours, it will price as a "connection", not as a higher-priced connection.

 

For more details if you have questions, please feel free to post over at Cruise Air here on CC.

[TravelerThom]

One more terminology note for today...

When leaving a country (eg exiting Schengen) the correct English terminology is Emigration, not Immigration (even though in all likelyhood the same guy works both desks on various days).

 

Thom

[Hoyaheel]

As long as the connection is under 24 hours, it will price as a "connection", not as a higher-priced connection.

 

And wouldn't that properly be called a "layover"?

[FlyerTalker]

Actually, I should have used "stopover", which is the term found in fare rules.

 

My error...thanks for the correction!!

 

As for "emmigration", while that is the term for the activity, the officials and the governmental procedures in both direction are "immigration officers" and the process "immigration control" or "passport control" or just "immigration".

 

I have yet to see "emmigration" on any kind of signage, stamp, or location. And this is from someone who had to get a new passport after 6 years because there was no more room for visa stamps, even with maximum extra pages.

[Hydrokitty]

At non-USA airports, there is often less "assistance" available/provided that what you get at USA airport. Even in Canada, there are significant differences in what is provided.

 

Very simple rule of thumb. If you need assistance to get from gate to gate at a non-USA airport, add a MINIMUM of one hour to whatever you might normally consider for a connection. If you are in a second or third world airport, add in even more.

 

The KL agent was probably correct. At most airports, wheelchair/handicapped assistance/carts are a function of the airport authority, not the airline itself. Not justifying it, but explaining. The airline will do what they can because folks will think it is their fault - but they have the same constraint for everyone - a finite number of folks to assist and an potentially infinite number of those needing the assist.

 

When I boarded the KLM flight in Basel that was explained to me in detail and that I would have to wait for a w/c until an attendant was available because they are not hired by the airline. The upside to this is that in most non-American airports, the w/c attendants are not allowed to accept tips. Some will accept them if offered and some will refuse them politely. For the most part I have to say that both domestically and internationally I have found the attendants to be very helpful, friendly and respectful of the passenger needing assistance....and KLM was the first time the cabin attendant came to my seat after boarding and explained how they handled w/c passengers so I knew exactly what was going on.

 

 

Flyertalker tip for the post: Remember - you do NOT have to just take the connection provided by the airline computer. It is programmed to give the shortest connect and/or cheapest connect. Very often, you can take a later flight at no fare differential. The rule to remember: for a domestic flight, you can have a connection of up to: a) four hours or b) the next flight out, whichever is longer. For an international itinerary, change "a" to 24 hours.

 

This means: You could even combine this with the same "trick" at JFK. Arrive there, spend the night, perhaps taking in a Broadway show, then leave the next morning. As long as the connection is under 24 hours, it will price as a "connection", not as a higher-priced connection.

 

This sounds like a wonderful way to get a "mini-vacation" but living close to NYC, I can't recommend it for one night due to the expense and the logistics. Taxi fare from JFK to NYC is fixed (I believe it's about $75 each way, but I won't swear to that) and depending on your arrival and departure time at JFK you could be looking easily at an hour or more each way into Manhattan!...hotels in mid-town generally run $200/night and up....theater tickets for decent seats run $150 per ticket and up....and I won't address meals, but figure minimum $50 (breakfast for 2) to $100 (dinner for 2) unless you eat fast food....but why would you do that? If it's impossible or impractical to do all flying on the same day, I would say fly into NY late in the day, stay at an airport hotel with free airport transportation and fly out the next day.I'm not saying it's a bad idea, just that it could be a logistic nightmare and will be an expensive over-night....NY is a wonderful city with so much to offer, but one night is no where near enough time....but that's just me.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Hydrokitty

[Barrheadlass]

I'm currently at the airport in Paris, waiting to board a flight to Bucharest. Only had to go through security and the wait was less than 2 minutes. I have 1 hour 40 minutes between flights and was really worried. I'll be at the gate at least an hour so my angst was for naught. Feeling very lucky!

[Alberta Quilter]

We flew into CDG yesterday and had wheelchair assistance for my mother. The attendant was right at the gate when we got off (we were among the first five passengers off the flight). He took us right to get our luggage, waited for us to use the facilities, and then pushed my mother all the way, with our pre-arranged driver, to the vehicle. It was amazingly fast and easy. Btw, he did accept a tip and thanked us for allowing him to provide the service to us; he was very gracious. We flew from Frankfurt so didn't have to go through any immigration again.

 

I should add that we had some long waits in Frankfurt with the assistance. There it was organized but we had just missed the bus. We were picked up at the gate in a relatively timely manner, passed off to someone else to shorten our trip, but that's where we ended up waiting for the bus for at least half an hour. Then we went through security where they were very thorough (made us remove ALL electronics (I'm used to only laptops), and liquids) and passport control. Then the bus came to take us to the other part of the same terminal. From there we went with the fourth or fifth person by that point, to the lounge closest to our gate. We had a six hour layover (it was either 1 or 6; I chose 6 to minimize the stress). What ticked me off was that the gate change that occurred meant loading all pax from the Tarmac. My reasons for getting the assistance was to ensure that my mother didn't have to walk up the stairs, in addition to the long distances. Apparently, when I booked the reward tickets, my reasons didn't translate properly to the second carrier. I'll be having a chat with them when I get home.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Alberta Quilter

[Hydrokitty]

 

I should add that we had some long waits in Frankfurt with the assistance. There it was organized but we had just missed the bus. We were picked up at the gate in a relatively timely manner, passed off to someone else to shorten our trip, but that's where we ended up waiting for the bus for at least half an hour. Then we went through security where they were very thorough (made us remove ALL electronics (I'm used to only laptops), and liquids) and passport control. Then the bus came to take us to the other part of the same terminal. From there we went with the fourth or fifth person by that point, to the lounge closest to our gate. We had a six hour layover (it was either 1 or 6; I chose 6 to minimize the stress). What ticked me off was that the gate change that occurred meant loading all pax from the Tarmac. My reasons for getting the assistance was to ensure that my mother didn't have to walk up the stairs, in addition to the long distances. Apparently, when I booked the reward tickets, my reasons didn't translate properly to the second carrier. I'll be having a chat with them when I get home.

 

I travel through Frankfort most of the time and always use a wheelchair when I'm flying. I'm not sure which airline you're flying but when I check in with Lufthansa they ask if I can or cannot do steps. Since the domestic (for want of a better word) flights mostly take off from the tarmac, they have a bus that goes out to the plane and rises up to the service entrance in the galley (right across from the regular entrance) and you step right onto the plane. It's true sometimes the wait is a little longish and you think they've forgotten you, but they never have and I've never missed a connection. I think the reason they wait is that unlike most of the time where they board w/c users first, the lift bus waits till the other passengers are on board and I board last. But the key is when buying your ticket and requesting assistance you MUST tell them your Mom cannot do steps, otherwise they'll use the golf carts to drive you to your gate. I also found Air Canada to treat passengers needing assistance wonderfully.

[Cyber Kat]

I'm currently at the airport in Paris, waiting to board a flight to Bucharest. Only had to go through security and the wait was less than 2 minutes. I have 1 hour 40 minutes between flights and was really worried. I'll be at the gate at least an hour so my angst was for naught. Feeling very lucky!

 

So glad to hear it worked out for you! With the thought that so many things can go wrong, we decided to play it safe and deal with JFK at the end of the flight. It will cost more and take longer for us to get home from the airport, but that works if we can stick with the same plane all the way home.

 

I will miss Paris :D

[caviargal]

Last November at CDG my mother's WC never arrived. We went to the nearest "customer service" desk, which did not deserve its name, and were told they had no idea when they could get one there for her. They were borderline rude.

 

In Frankfurt two years ago, her WC also did not show up. We had a 90 minute connection and the walk was over a mile to the other gate.

 

I am hoping for better on Virgin this month.

[Mark_T]

I am hoping for better on Virgin this month.

 

Unfortunately the airlines have very little to do with this, it is all under airport control, so as long as the airline passes along the request, the rest is down to the airport management.

 

For what it's worth, yes, this annoys the airlines considerably as passengers naturally perceive it as a failure of airline customer service when there is literally nothing they can do to fix the problem.

 

Most airports will not even allow an airline to run its own service for this, they are forced to use the airport contracted provider.

[Alberta Quilter]

I travel through Frankfort most of the time and always use a wheelchair when I'm flying. I'm not sure which airline you're flying but when I check in with Lufthansa they ask if I can or cannot do steps. Since the domestic (for want of a better word) flights mostly take off from the tarmac, they have a bus that goes out to the plane and rises up to the service entrance in the galley (right across from the regular entrance) and you step right onto the plane. It's true sometimes the wait is a little longish and you think they've forgotten you, but they never have and I've never missed a connection. I think the reason they wait is that unlike most of the time where they board w/c users first, the lift bus waits till the other passengers are on board and I board last. But the key is when buying your ticket and requesting assistance you MUST tell them your Mom cannot do steps, otherwise they'll use the golf carts to drive you to your gate. I also found Air Canada to treat passengers needing assistance wonderfully.

 

We flew Air Canada to Frankfurt and Lufthansa to CDG. I did tell them that she could not do stairs and that my main concern was Lufthansa loading from the. Tarmac. On the day we left, I noticed, between our two sets of flights (outbound and return), there were two slightly different phrases between the two sets of itineraries. I called Aeroplan (reward company) again to ensure that the correct terminology was indicated and was assured it was. I asked about it again in Frankfurt when we were first picked up. At that time, we were scheduled to a gate which had a bridge to the plane so there were no concerns. It was fifteen minutes before boarding time that we were advised of the gate change and by then it was too late to do anything.

 

If the proper terminology had been used, then we would have had an experience similar to what you described. I just don't know where the fault lays and I expect I won't be able to find out, not that it matters much now. Hopefully our return flight, from Nice, will load from the terminal. I'm not concerned about the Frankfurt to Alberta flight.

[Hydrokitty]

We flew Air Canada to Frankfurt and Lufthansa to CDG. I did tell them that she could not do stairs and that my main concern was Lufthansa loading from the. Tarmac. On the day we left, I noticed, between our two sets of flights (outbound and return), there were two slightly different phrases between the two sets of itineraries. I called Aeroplan (reward company) again to ensure that the correct terminology was indicated and was assured it was. I asked about it again in Frankfurt when we were first picked up. At that time, we were scheduled to a gate which had a bridge to the plane so there were no concerns. It was fifteen minutes before boarding time that we were advised of the gate change and by then it was too late to do anything.

 

If the proper terminology had been used, then we would have had an experience similar to what you described. I just don't know where the fault lays and I expect I won't be able to find out, not that it matters much now. Hopefully our return flight, from Nice, will load from the terminal. I'm not concerned about the Frankfurt to Alberta flight.

 

It's unfortunate, but pp stated the problem very clearly....the people who assist passengers with w/c do not work for the airline, they work for the airport. Apparently they're a little better paid than in US because most of the time they will tell you they are not allowed to take tips. The downside is there obviously aren't enough of them during peak periods. I am surprised that the attendant did not stay with your mother until she was boarded just to prevent something like a sudden gate change from leaving her unable to be properly assisted. What was the difference in terminology?

[Alberta Quilter]

It's unfortunate, but pp stated the problem very clearly....the people who assist passengers with w/c do not work for the airline, they work for the airport. Apparently they're a little better paid than in US because most of the time they will tell you they are not allowed to take tips. The downside is there obviously aren't enough of them during peak periods. I am surprised that the attendant did not stay with your mother until she was boarded just to prevent something like a sudden gate change from leaving her unable to be properly assisted. What was the difference in terminology?

 

We flew in business class so we're in the lounge closest to the original gate. We would have gone down an escalator to the gate. So between those two things, and having a six hour layover, I didn't expect anyone to stay with us. The terminology for one was assistance within the airport and the other referred to not being able to do stairs, IIRC. I can't remember which booking had which terminology, though. I'm hoping it was this recent flight that had the "within the airport" phrasing so we don't have to do it on the return flight from Nice.