Cruise safety in Middle East

[moniquet]

Why poor examples. They were in response to someone recommending travelling alone. Nothing to do with flying and an incident which everyone is well aware of. The atrocities in Tunisia I have already mentioned above if you read my posts.

 

This chronology of tourist attacks in Egypt may be of some interest.

 

http://www.usdivetravel.com/T-EgyptTerrorism.html

Edited November 13, 2015 by moniquet

[sail7seas]

What I don't understand is why those who come down firmly on the side of 'go' seem so vehement in dismissing those who choose otherwise. What do they care if some of us choose to not go? Why such firmness in their 'side is right'? :confused:

Edited November 13, 2015 by sail7seas

[John Bull]

Why poor examples. They were in response to someone recommending travelling alone.

 

Hi Moniquet,

 

Fair reprimand. And my apologies.

That was a rushed add-on paragraph after I'd posted and then seen your post, & I didn't associate your comment with Hank's independent travel.

 

But I'll still stand by my comment that those two examples were unlucky, rather than Hank being lucky. ;)

 

JB :)

[moniquet]

Thank you JB:) we can agree to differ, you could be right about lucky or unlucky.

[John Bull]

What I don't understand is why those who come down firmly on the side of 'go' seem so vehement in dismissing those who choose otherwise. What do they care if some of us choose to not go? Why such firmness in their 'side is right'?

 

:confused:

 

Can you point to anything on this threads that come anywhere near to your assertion of a comment of "my side is right" :confused:

 

JB :)

[Hlitner]

What I don't understand is why those who come down firmly on the side of 'go' seem so vehement in dismissing those who choose otherwise. What do they care if some of us choose to not go? Why such firmness in their 'side is right'? :confused:

 

We agree which is why we sometimes suggest that folks who have concerns just stay home. But when others ask opinions that is a different story. If asked my advice now, we would not be traveling to Tunesia or Egypt under the current circumstances. But as to Turkey and Israel, we would happily be in either place tomorrow.

 

Hank

[Keith1010]

What I don't understand is why those who come down firmly on the side of 'go' seem so vehement in dismissing those who choose otherwise. What do they care if some of us choose to not go? Why such firmness in their 'side is right'? :confused:

 

We are really responding to the OP's question.

 

In the end, as I always say for most opinions there really is not a right or wrong, and in the end the most important opinion is our very own.

 

Keith

[cruisemom42]

What I don't understand is why those who come down firmly on the side of 'go' seem so vehement in dismissing those who choose otherwise. What do they care if some of us choose to not go? Why such firmness in their 'side is right'? :confused:

 

I don't see that happening here, unless I missed something...

 

As I said before, anyone can (and very definitely SHOULD) decide for themselves about whether or not they feel comfortable visiting a certain destination.

 

However, I do not like to see people presenting some pretty far-fetched examples to support their allegations that travel to some of the places mentioned by the OP is FACTUALLY risky.

 

Do you see the difference? To put it more clearly:

 

To say that you feel it is too risky is one thing. To assert that evidence shows it is too risky is something else entirely.

[moniquet]

Which examples are "far fetched"?

[sail7seas]

I don't see that happening here, unless I missed something...

 

As I said before, anyone can (and very definitely SHOULD) decide for themselves about whether or not they feel comfortable visiting a certain destination.

 

However, I do not like to see people presenting some pretty far-fetched examples to support their allegations that travel to some of the places mentioned by the OP is FACTUALLY risky.

 

Do you see the difference? To put it more clearly:

 

To say that you feel it is too risky is one thing. To assert that evidence shows it is too risky is something else entirely.

 

 

 

 

YES. I SEe the difference. :rolleyes:

 

Edited November 13, 2015 by sail7seas

[sail7seas]

Keith1010

 

<snip>

 

 

In the end, as I always say for most opinions there really is not a right or wrong, and in the end the most important opinion is our very own.

 

Keith

 

 

 

There is no failure to understand.

There are varying opinions and not all of us feel the same way about visiting all parts of the world. I have not read in this thread anyone told someone else what to do but rather they are stating what they plan to do. Just because someone disagrees with me does not mean they are wrong. It also does not mean they are right. It is their personal choice where to travel as it is mine.

It's as easy as that.

 

 

My post #64 in this thread..... Often repeated. ;)

 

[sail7seas]

Sadly, right now as I was posting above, I heard on news there has been a shooting in Paris and while the situation is fluid, it appears 3 have been shot to death and 7 injured in a Parisian restaurant.

 

Concurrently, it seems there is an explosion (or even more than one) at some stadium where a soccer match was being held.

 

Reports are just now coming in.

[John Bull]

There is no failure to understand.

There are varying opinions and not all of us feel the same way about visiting all parts of the world. I have not read in this thread anyone told someone else what to do but rather they are stating what they plan to do. Just because someone disagrees with me does not mean they are wrong. It also does not mean they are right. It is their personal choice where to travel as it is mine.

It's as easy as that.

 

 

What I don't understand is why those who come down firmly on the side of 'go' seem so vehement in dismissing those who choose otherwise. What do they care if some of us choose to not go? Why such firmness in their 'side is right'? :confused:

 

I don't think anyone would disagree with anything in that first post. :)

 

But cruisemom and I are waiting for a response to our posts asking you to justify the second one. :confused:

 

JB :)

[sail7seas]

Just read through the posts with an open mind.

You will see all the insinuations.

 

The subtlety of 'do you understand' asked more than once is evident on a careful read.

 

[cruisemom42]

Just read through the posts with an open mind.

You will see all the insinuations.

 

The subtlety of 'do you understand' asked more than once is evident on a careful read.

 

 

Some make a career of searching for hidden meanings where there are none.

 

I try to be as clear and logical as I can when I respond. If others choose to read some sort of subtext, there's not much else to say.

 

On a different note, the news from Paris gets worse. My thoughts and sympathies go out to the French tonight.

[sail7seas]

Yes, of course.

[buggins0402]

Some make a career of searching for hidden meanings where there are none.

 

I try to be as clear and logical as I can when I respond. If others choose to read some sort of subtext, there's not much else to say.

 

On a different note, the news from Paris gets worse. My thoughts and sympathies go out to the French tonight.

 

Oh my, I hadn't heard about this. We're in Seville and hadn't turned on the news. This appears to be a horrible attack.

[John Bull]

Just read through the posts with an open mind.

You will see all the insinuations.

 

The subtlety of 'do you understand' asked more than once is evident on a careful read.

 

 

Wow, you've really made me hunt.

Plenty of folk on both sides saying that they understand the views of those on the other side.

 

So I'll hazard a guess that you're referring to Keith's post ?

"The odds of someone getting attacked in places including Oman, Jordan and Israel are far lower than in so many places including many in the USA.

I wonder how many of those who are fearful of these areas have ever visited them.

I think if they had, they would understand."

 

There's no "insinuation" or "subtlety" in Keith's post.

Keith was very clear that he was referring to folk whose opinions are formed by the media, rather than by actual experience.

Who can disagree with that???

Statistics & Government websites agree with Keith.

But not those who come up with macho nonsense like "if you find yourself in trouble and in need of immediate help in ME, don't expect SEAL Team Six or USMC to come charging in and save you from harm"

What do you think of that post, S7S?

 

BTW I failed to find Keith's "do you understand?" posted more than that once.

 

Sadly, events in Paris have reinforced that there are risks anywhere.

 

JB :)

[Keith1010]

Today's events are very sad.

 

Our thoughts and prayers go out to everyone who have been impacted.

 

JB is right and this is what I have talked about starting with yesterday posts. What happened in Paris has happened in many places around the world on different scales. It has happened in our own backyards for those of us in the USA, and much too often in the past several years and also has happened in places from Europe to Australia.

 

Again thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families and friends who have already been impacted by todays horrific act.

 

Keith

[slidergirl]

Indeed, a horrific evening in Paris. Prayers to all in France tonight.

As unfortunate as it is, this does reinforce my thoughts that you can never be 100% free of a potential issue anywhere, anytime. And, it is MY own personal decision on where to go and when to go. And, it is YOUR personal decision on where to go and when to go.

[pris993]

We have plans to be in Paris and Israel in March, not by ship. Just never known. We have no reason to change our plans, one does need to try to be smart even in your own home town.

[icat2000]

Yes the events in Paris are tragic. It just highlights that you need to be aware and observant of your surroundings wherever you are in the world.

Edited November 14, 2015 by icat2000

[sail7seas]

What did any of these people do that would indicate they were not aware and observant? I haven't heard of any such case.

 

They went to a Concert Hall to listen to a band? What was careless about that?

They went to a café/bar to have a drink after work on a Friday night? Careless?

They went to a Stadium to watch a soccer match?

 

Yes, it can (and likely will) happen anywhere. These people were not to be thought to be unaware or unobservant. No different than any of us in any major city on an average Friday.

[GottaKnowWhen]

I don't see that happening here, unless I missed something...

 

 

 

As I said before, anyone can (and very definitely SHOULD) decide for themselves about whether or not they feel comfortable visiting a certain destination.

 

 

 

However, I do not like to see people presenting some pretty far-fetched examples to support their allegations that travel to some of the places mentioned by the OP is FACTUALLY risky.

 

 

 

Do you see the difference? To put it more clearly:

 

 

 

To say that you feel it is too risky is one thing. To assert that evidence shows it is too risky is something else entirely.

 

 

I wandered into a Buenos Aires discussion on CC earlier this year and put forward my opinion based on my experience that it was quite safe to walk in [xyz] area. I was admonished, and rightly so. I might be quite safe, but Joe and Jane Smith on their first time outside their region in their country? Have they developed the skills needed to travel safely in potentially dangerous situations? Probably not. The lesson being that personal safety involves some acquired skills, and so generic advice about whether or not to travel to a given spot could well be off target as we don't know that much about the traveler's competence. Which means that the best advice, as several of you have said several times in this thread, is for the OP and other travelers to decide what feels right for themselves. Nobody else can judge the risks involved.

 

Stan

[icat2000]

Stan excellent post. You make some very valid points.

 

Also Sail7seas - It was not my intention to say that the people caught up in the Paris tradegy were unaware or unobservant. I'm sorry, if it came across that way.

 

I was trying to say that in any travel situation you need to be aware and observant of your surroundings especially when your not in familiar terriority.

Edited November 14, 2015 by icat2000