No more Bistro on 5 on Reflection

[Fouremco]

I know that was Celebrity's announcement. I would like the response from someone onboard who can say exactly what this translates to. How is it different from the other sandwich station?

Sorry, I should have said "While waiting for a first-hand report..." :) Hopefully there won't be too much of a difference between the marketing version and reality.

[robsmom]

We just boarded Reflection and I can now confirm that Sushi on Five is indeed sushi only, with no lunch service of any kind for the time being. The gentleman we spoke to said that they may serve lunch eventually but that during the trial run, it will be dinner only. He also told me that the ultimate dining package (which we purchased) cannot be used at Sushi on Five, but I'm crossing my fingers that we can convince them to let us use it for a couple of items at some point.

 

 

 

As for the package, we used it for lunch at the Porch, which was excellent. The price is now $30, but no upcharge for the seafood tower.

 

 

I wish they were doing lunch. Headed on the March 26th cruise. I know my husband and son want to try this, but I am not sure I want to give up a dinner. Was hoping to do lunch.

[carolslc]

Thanks for posting the menu. I really hope they are slow to roll out to other ships - not before our November cruise on the Summit. I like sushi, but my husband doesn't. Our local Japanese place has good chicken teriyaki and other items for him, but I'm not seeing anything on this menu he would eat.

 

On past cruises, I would go to Bistro on 5 for lunch, even when he wouldn't. Sometimes I just want to sit and have someone wait on me. But it's not even open for lunch now? Even if we both liked sushi, we would never pass up the MDR or one of the specialty restaurants to have dinner here instead.

[seapals2]

Azura went for the Sushi bar and was always empty.

 

Now why doesn't someone have the idea to put Tepanaki tables in there. Always very busy in land based restaurants.

 

For us its just something to go with drinks and not a meal. Have they altered the restaurant seating to accommodate this with bar stools etc. Cant imagine sitting at a table just for pre dinner drinks and appetiser.

[Erikamac]

Yuck!!!!

[Fouremco]

Azura went for the Sushi bar and was always empty.

 

Now why doesn't someone have the idea to put Tepanaki tables in there. Always very busy in land based restaurants.

 

For us its just something to go with drinks and not a meal. Have they altered the restaurant seating to accommodate this with bar stools etc. Cant imagine sitting at a table just for pre dinner drinks and appetiser.

I suspect that the configuration of Tepanaki tables and the limited number of seatings they'd accommodate in an evening would not generate enough business to make it profitable without charging a much higher price than you'd pay ashore.

 

From what I'm reading, they aren't trying to attract a pre-dinner drinks and appetizer crowd, they want you to come there FOR dinner.

Edited February 28, 2016 by Fouremco

[Rob the Cruiser]

Yuck!!!!

 

Yum!!!!

[Fouremco]

Yuck!!!!

 

Yum!!!!

Are Yuck and Yum related to Yin and Yang? :)

Edited February 28, 2016 by Fouremco

[Host Anne]

I have a few concerns about the concept. My husband is a big sushi fan but I'm not. It's kind of tough to go to a restaurant that appeals to one of us but not the other.

 

I looked at the pricing (thanks, Andy for posting the menus) and they seem awfully high. All of the specialty restaurant pricing seems to be reaching the "over-the-top" area. Of course you don't have to eat at them...and we probably won't.

 

The Porch on Equinox had changed to the Seafood and Raw Bar when we were on her in January.

[NanaChar]

We just got off the Ref. Sushi on 5 was empty most of the time. The term that was used over and over again was this was a 'pop-up' restaurant. And they were hawking it at every event they could.

The food was good but expensive. I'm hoping they are still tuning it.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[ghstudio]

.

 

 

 

I looked at the pricing (thanks, Andy for posting the menus) and they seem awfully high. All of the specialty restaurant pricing seems to be reaching the "over-the-top" area. Of course you don't have to eat at them...and we probably won't.

 

 

.

 

 

We ate at a sushi restaurant last night in chiswick,London,U.K.....prices were pretty much the same for sushi as on the menu posted.

 

Time for everyone complaining about the sushi costs. If you like the concept, eat there. If not, pass it by....but stop giving excuses rationalizations

[Fouremco]

We ate at a sushi restaurant last night in chiswick,London,U.K.....prices were pretty much the same for sushi as on the menu posted.

 

Time for everyone complaining about the sushi costs. If you like the concept, eat there. If not, pass it by....but stop giving excuses rationalizations

In my experience, London food prices are always on the steep side, so I'm not sure the prices there serve as a useful comparison.

[richstowe]

I looked at the pricing (thanks, Andy for posting the menus) and they seem awfully high. All of the specialty restaurant pricing seems to be reaching the "over-the-top" area. Of course you don't have to eat at them...and we probably won't.

 

We just got off the Ref. Sushi on 5 was empty most of the time. The term that was used over and over again was this was a 'pop-up' restaurant. And they were hawking it at every event they could.

The food was good but expensive. I'm hoping they are still tuning it.

So at what point does the Celebrity brain trust recognize that the solution to half-empty additional fee restaurants is not higher fees ?

[The_Big_M]

In my experience, London food prices are always on the steep side, so I'm not sure the prices there serve as a useful comparison.

 

And further, the idea of onboard eateries is they are extra fee as you already have paid for the buffet and MDR food options, and facilities onboard. Unlike visiting a restaurant on land where your meal price includes rent, staff and full meal costs and profit as well.

 

That post demonstrates that the prices _are_ high.

[wpgcycler]

 

Stuck in a hotel room feeling unwell - but this made me laugh so hard I actually fell better! :D

 

(waffling between amusement and embarrassment however at the presumably fully grown adults saying "YUCK!" and "BARF!" :rolleyes:)

[Maligator]

Stuck in a hotel room feeling unwell - but this made me laugh so hard I actually fell better! :D

 

So laughter is the best medicine! I'm not sure if I take your insurance, so you'll have to pay your bill in full. I can be paid in OBC if you wish. :D

[Cruise_Dancer]

So at what point does the Celebrity brain trust recognize that the solution to half-empty additional fee restaurants is not higher fees ?

 

Despite griping on the boards, it seems likely that Celebrity has done studies that show that demand for specialty restaurants is not price responsive. BO5 was a low-price specialty restaurant, and as evidenced by its perpetual near-empty state, the low price was not enough of an enticement for passengers. RCCL likely has additional information on the subject from their own studies of low-price specialty restaurants on RC ships (i.e. Rita's Cantina). Now there are a variety of reasons why a restaurant might be empty, but the low price clearly was not enough to attract customers in and of itself.

 

The question then becomes, what will attract people? Quality of food, and indeed the experience in general, seems the most likely answer, but it's not enough of an answer. Keep in mind, the economic model of restaurants is rooted in upselling. Most land-based restaurants break even on the food (at best); their entire profit margin comes from the sale of alcohol (hence why wine is often marked up 600% or higher). Given how Celebrity has been pushing, and even giving away the drinks packages, however, selling drinks is not going to be a money maker for specialty restaurants.

 

I think this new venue is an inversion of the classic trope. I think the cocktail menu is intended to draw customers in whereupon they hope said customers will order and pay for food. Suddenly the choice to go ala carte makes a lot more sense. Suddenly the cocktail menu, with all the mixed drinks exactly under the premium limit, makes a lot more sense. The decision to be closed for lunch but open for dinner, when people drink more, makes a lot more sense. Even the lack of bar seating - which would encourage people to come in for only a drink - makes more sense.

 

I don't begrudge Celebrity this decision. BO5 wasn't making money. I applaud them for trying something else. The implementation looks to be lacking (i.e. lack of any non-seafood options. Would it kill you to put chicken teriyaki on the menu?) but I hope it works out. Personally, I'm looking forward to going for drinks and trying that pork belly ramen.

[excitedofharpenden]

So at what point does the Celebrity brain trust recognize that the solution to half-empty additional fee restaurants is not higher fees ?

 

You'd think they would understand by now seeing as how aggressive staff are on the ships at touting for business and offering special deals in the Specialties. To me it smacks of "let's see how much we can ask and then bargain if we need to". It's one of the aspects of Celebrity these days I really dislike. Not very transparent. Not very Modern Luxury.

 

Phil

Edited February 29, 2016 by excitedofharpenden

[kathynorth]

You'd think they would understand by now seeing as how aggressive staff are on the ships at touting for business and offering special deals in the Specialties. To me it smacks of "let's see how much we can ask and then bargain if we need to". It's one of the aspects of Celebrity these days I really dislike. Not very transparent. Not very Modern Luxury.

 

Phil

 

It won't be too long before we see "Happy Hour Appetizer Specials" at Sushi on 5.

[richstowe]

Despite griping on the boards, it seems likely that Celebrity has done studies that show that demand for specialty restaurants is not price responsive. BO5 was a low-price specialty restaurant, and as evidenced by its perpetual near-empty state, the low price was not enough of an enticement for passengers.

I agree with this part of your argument . Less so the rest . Your premise that raising prices at additional fee places not being price sensitive may be correct but the foundation is flawed . The problem is the extra fee in the first place . They have reached a saturation point . Adopting the NCL model of trying to make as many places as possible not included in the base fare isn't well received by the majority of its customers . As excitedofharpenden pointed out, offering super duper deals smells of desperation and is not anyone's idea of Modern Luxury.

 

 

The question then becomes, what will attract people? Quality of food, and indeed the experience in general, seems the most likely answer, but it's not enough of an answer. Keep in mind, the economic model of restaurants is rooted in upselling. Most land-based restaurants break even on the food (at best); their entire profit margin comes from the sale of alcohol (hence why wine is often marked up 600% or higher). Given how Celebrity has been pushing, and even giving away the drinks packages, however, selling drinks is not going to be a money maker for specialty restaurants.

 

I think this new venue is an inversion of the classic trope. I think the cocktail menu is intended to draw customers in whereupon they hope said customers will order and pay for food. Suddenly the choice to go ala carte makes a lot more sense. Suddenly the cocktail menu, with all the mixed drinks exactly under the premium limit, makes a lot more sense. The decision to be closed for lunch but open for dinner, when people drink more, makes a lot more sense. Even the lack of bar seating - which would encourage people to come in for only a drink - makes more sense.

Yes this "is an inversion" of the entire hospitality business model . Give em the food at cost then make money on the drinks . And so Celebrity thinks raising base fares and throwing the "free" drink package makes sense and now we are going to pay extra for food ? As they kidding ? Are you ? There is a reason this "trope"(?) exists , it works . I see no evidence that Celebrity passengers are accepting of this inversion .;)

I don't begrudge Celebrity this decision. BO5 wasn't making money. I applaud them for trying something else. The implementation looks to be lacking (i.e. lack of any non-seafood options. Would it kill you to put chicken teriyaki on the menu?) but I hope it works out. Personally, I'm looking forward to going for drinks and trying that pork belly ramen.

How about trying a non-fee something else ? How about not attempting to treat your customers like dopes ? How about seeing that overall customer satisfaction is achieved by giving them a special experience and not seeing how many upsells they can foist on us ? Finally how about recognizing as all marketers should that satisfying your existing customer base is essential for success . Edited February 29, 2016 by richstowe

[Cruise_Dancer]

The problem is the extra fee in the first place . They have reached a saturation point . Adopting the NCL model of trying to make as many places as possible not included in the base fare isn't well received by the majority of its customers

 

How about trying a non-fee something else ? How about not attempting to treat your customers like dopes ? How about seeing that overall customer satisfaction is achieved by giving them a special experience and not seeing how many upsells they can foist on us ? Finally how about recognizing as all marketers should that satisfying your existing customer base is essential for success .

 

I'm not sure how saturated the market is, but Bistro on 5, much as I enjoyed it, clearly wasn't the answer. That leaves two ways to build their brand: more upcharge venues or more complimentary venues. To summarize an old argument, upcharge venues are generally more acceptable to the majority of passengers since if you don't want to pay extra for the service, you don't have to. By contrast, an inclusive venue requires you to pay for it even if you don't like it or don't make use of it. We've seen the number of people in this thread who dislike sushi or can't eat seafood in general; can you imagine everyone's fare going up to cover this venue those people can't eat at?

 

That said, even if they'd produced a venue that was universally acceptable - let's say they created a Memphis-style barbecue restaurant - I don't think Celebrity would want to make it an inclusive restaurant. Or rather, Celebrity might, but RCCL wouldn't. Keep in mind, that RCCL owns a number of cruise brands and one of the key rules for branding is you don't want to compete against yourself. They have Azamara as their all-inclusive luxury brand (in fact, I strongly suspect this is why Pullmantur, also owned by RCCL, no longer includes alcohol as part of their cruise package). Now RCCL is smart enough to realize that there's still a big gap between Royal Caribbean, Celebrity, and Azamara, and that's why things like Aqua Class and Suite Class exist, both of which are more inclusive than the base fare, but they have chosen not to build their brand around an all-inclusive strategy. I wouldn't expect them to suddenly switch now.

 

In the end, time will tell if this was a good move. As I said, my personal opinion is that it's a good idea but the implementation looks to be lacking, but we'll see how passengers vote with their wallets.

[Karynanne]

It won't be too long before we see "Happy Hour Appetizer Specials" at Sushi on 5.

 

Maybe "Tapas on 5". Small plates of Spanish style cuisine, could possibly attract a wider range of diners.

[iMedic]

What makes a Memphis style BBQ joint universally acceptable?

[dmp223]

Hi!! hope you have a great cruise. BO5 was suppose to be the restaurant used for lunch on port days by suite guests. Can you find out if Luminae is opening for lunch on port days? I'm extremely allergic to seafood which means that the Porch and SO5 are not options for me. Will appreciate any information.

 

According to the F&B Director (I asked him last week while we were onboard) The Porch is now the lunch venue on port days for those dining in Luminae.

 

Also, if this has been noted already, my apologies, in almost all the Dailies last week, Sushi on 5 was constantly being advertised to try it before it's gone and as a "pop-up" restaurant.. which makes me wonder if they are testing the concept on Reflection and perhaps giving themselves an out should it not take off...

 

I'll see if I have the dailies where this is indicated and will post here.

[pollyspockets]

The primadonnas on this thread! I don't like it so it must be worthless. I doubt you will have a problem finding food you enjoy.