Turkey Travel Warning issued March 29, 2016

[MicCanberra]

I would be more concerned going to the USA than Europe. While tragic and unacceptable the number of people killed in Europe is minuscule in relation to the population. I don't have the exact figure for 2015 but it is in the hundreds. This compares to over 50,000 incidences of gun crime and 12,000 deaths in the US.

 

Statistically you may be correct however, the difference with the gun deaths in the US and the terrorist bombings is mainly who is being killed. On one hand you have citizens in their homes, streets, shopping malls, etc being killed either accidentally or in crime such as murder, revenge or drug dealings. Against that is the suicide bombings targeting tourist areas and other public areas such as churchs/mosques, going for crowded mass killing zones.

 

As a tourist and potentially about to visit Kusadai and Ephesus on a cruise and tour, this may be more of a worry.

 

I hope I get there but if X pulls out, I would not be surprised.

[MicCanberra]

Kotor, Montenegro or Israel could be options.

 

Kotor would be a good alternative.:D

Edited April 3, 2016 by MicCanberra

[ChucktownSteve]

I would be more concerned going to the USA than Europe. While tragic and unacceptable the number of people killed in Europe is minuscule in relation to the population. I don't have the exact figure for 2015 but it is in the hundreds. This compares to over 50,000 incidences of gun crime and 12,000 deaths in the US.

 

What is your source for this claim? It's ridiculous to make a blanket statement without examining the incident break outs.

 

A recent study published in the Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy concluded that there is a negative correlation between gun ownership and violent crime in countries internationally (more guns = less crime).

 

Nations with strict gun control laws have substantially higher murder rates than those who do not in general. In fact, the 9 European nations with the lowest gun ownership rate have a combined murder rate 3x that of the 9 European nations with the highest gun ownership rate!

Edited April 3, 2016 by ChucktownSteve

[goldesq]

What is your source for this claim? It's ridiculous to make a blanket statement without examining the incident break outs.

 

A recent study published in the Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy concluded that there is a negative correlation between gun ownership and violent crime in countries internationally (more guns = less crime).

 

Nations with strict gun control laws have substantially higher murder rates than those who do not in general. In fact, the 9 European nations with the lowest gun ownership rate have a combined murder rate 3x that of the 9 European nations with the highest gun ownership rate!

 

A quick google search has multiple sources for his/her numbers. How about this one:

http://www.thetrace.org/2015/12/gun-violence-stats-2015/

 

Here is a great article from 2015 about American deaths due to guns compared with deaths due to terrorism:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/oct/05/viral-image/fact-checking-comparison-gun-deaths-and-terrorism-/

 

But seriously, lets not make this a gun control law debate....he just cited some numbers.

 

Everyone should just make their own educated decision if a ship docks in a port they feel uncomfortable leaving...its not the end of the world if you just enjoy the time onboard that day and subsequently enjoy the rest of the cruise.

[MicCanberra]

 

Everyone should just make their own educated decision if a ship docks in a port they feel uncomfortable leaving...its not the end of the world if you just enjoy the time onboard that day and subsequently enjoy the rest of the cruise.

 

I agree, people have differing risk thresholds and each should decide for themselves.

[Ladesign]

how can celebrity not cancel turkish ports of call after this warning issued today :

 

 

 

The u.s. Department of state warns u.s. Citizens of increased threats from terrorist groups throughout turkey and to avoid travel to southeastern turkey. Effective march 29, 2016, the department of state ordered the departure of family members of u.s. Government personnel posted to u.s. Consulate in adana and family members of u.s. Government civilians in izmir and mugla provinces, and restricted official travel to turkey to “mission-critical” travel only. U.s. Consulate in adana remains open and will provide all routine consular services. This travel warning replaces the travel warning dated march 17, 2016.

 

 

 

Foreign and u.s. Tourists have been explicitly targeted by international and indigenous terrorist organizations. U.s. Citizens are reminded to review personal security plans and remain vigilant at all times. U.s. Government personnel in turkey remain subject to travel restrictions in southeastern provinces of hatay, kilis, gaziantep, sanliurfa, sirnak, diyarbakir, van, siirt, mus, mardin, batman, bingol, tunceli, hakkari, bitlis, and elazig. U.s. Citizens should avoid areas in close proximity to the syrian border.

 

 

[DYKWIA]

[attach]381621[/attach]

 

The world is full of figures and they can be interpreted countless ways - for and against an argument. The BREXIT yes / no referendum is a good example of this.

 

According to your figures, the number of Americans killed by ISIS is low and the number killed by a gun somewhat higher, what are we supposed to conclude from these figures? - I have absolutely no idea. These figures, for a start, don't deal with motive.

 

Currently, one objective of ISIS is to kill many more and create terror; one way they seem to be trying to achieve this is by targeting tourists, it is inevitable that figure of 4 will go up. A US ship unfortunately would be a big trophy and its impact almost certainly would have global implications to world travel. Therefore because it is currently only 4 should be seen as a blessing not necessarily as a measure of future threat.

 

Of those 30000 deaths the vast majority will be accidental, tragic for their families, but sadly not of worldwide significance and of no global significance - today's local news tomorrow's chip paper; 438,000 died of Malaria last year - how many of us don't travel because of that threat. If the 4 people killed by ISIS are not included in that 30000 you report, how many of those 30000 would have been killed as a result of being targeted as a tourist by their assailant?

Edited April 3, 2016 by DYKWIA

[spookyfudge]

Unless you are one of the four, why risk it, stay away from trouble you know about.

 

Sent from my KFTHWI using Forums mobile app

[ChucktownSteve]

Oh yeah I know it must be right, I read it on the internet!!!!!!

 

Conservative AND liberal organizations post "facts" that aren't true but if you repeat a lie enough, people believe it and it "becomes" true.

 

When I was in high school debate I learned you can find countless quotes for BOTH sides of an argument. Many can be from the same source. You just use the ones that prove your resolution.

Edited April 3, 2016 by ChucktownSteve

[spookyfudge]

When in doubt "for vacation" just go to someplace that dosnt have travel warnings! For work you have no choice, but for vacation there are to many other destinations you can do.

 

Sent from my KFTHWI using Forums mobile app

[cruisemom42]

Kotor would be a good alternative.:D

 

It's not so easy as just picking a different port. The cruise line ideally would want to choose somewhere as a substitute that would not disrupt the rest of the itinerary. If they skip Istanbul, they likely cannot sail to Kotor from the previous port in the same amount of time, nor sail back to make the next scheduled port.

 

Likely it will be some port in the Aegean. I think Thessaloniki would be a good choice, but Celebrity probably doesn't call there at any other time and would have to contract for shorex, etc.

 

Lots of variables....

[dutchclogs]

It's not so easy as just picking a different port. The cruise line ideally would want to choose somewhere as a substitute that would not disrupt the rest of the itinerary. If they skip Istanbul, they likely cannot sail to Kotor from the previous port in the same amount of time, nor sail back to make the next scheduled port.

 

Likely it will be some port in the Aegean. I think Thessaloniki would be a good choice, but Celebrity probably doesn't call there at any other time and would have to contract for shorex, etc.

 

Lots of variables....

 

Indeed, Think the suggestion of Kotor may have been for Kusadasi rather than Istanbul? This would fit earlier in the itinerary for those cruises starting in Venice and would also be advantageous for VAT. Not having visited Kotor this would be a good alternative for me, but I appreciate the arguments for a substitution somewhere in the Aegean or extra hours in existing ports of call.

[cruisemom42]

Indeed, Think the suggestion of Kotor may have been for Kusadasi rather than Istanbul? This would fit earlier in the itinerary for those cruises starting in Venice and would also be advantageous for VAT. Not having visited Kotor this would be a good alternative for me, but I appreciate the arguments for a substitution somewhere in the Aegean or extra hours in existing ports of call.

 

Even missing Kusadasi, I think, you'd have to pick something closer than Kotor. If you add Kotor at the front (or back) end, you'd displace other days already planned.

 

There are some other possibilities -- without knowing where that itinerary is already going: Mykonos, Santorini, Crete, and Rhodes all come to mind (very close to Kusadasi). Or Cyprus. Or less visited Greek isles.

[villauk]

Kotor is a tender port for most of the larger ships, so it will come down to logistics too. One small port will not be able to suddenly take a huge influx of ships from different companies all at the same time. Take our Santorini stop, I think we're already in port (tendering) with another 3 or 4 Ships so the likelihood of it being able to accept more, is possibly unlikely. Additionally, those ports are going to be so overcrowded that it takes away the visiting pleasure. Tbh, we returned to Dubrovnik last year and couldn't believe the difference from the first time we had cruised there :eek: - the crowds were huge - nothing like our first experience of this beautiful place nearly 10 years ago.

 

As cruisemom stated, so many variables to consider and the Med season will soon be upon us ;).

[villauk]

Even missing Kusadasi, I think, you'd have to pick something closer than Kotor. If you add Kotor at the front (or back) end, you'd displace other days already planned.

 

There are some other possibilities -- without knowing where that itinerary is already going: Mykonos, Santorini, Crete, and Rhodes all come to mind (very close to Kusadasi). Or Cyprus. Or less visited Greek isles.

 

Which is why, on our sailing, I think X will just add extra hours to our scheduled stops rather than have the added hassle of another port. Those that have 2 scheduled port stops in Turkey (Reflection?) will probably be the only ones provided with an alternative? I may be totally wrong, but they'll need to start sorting soon as the Med season is very close to commencing ;).

[billydog]

What is your source for this claim? It's ridiculous to make a blanket statement without examining the incident break outs.

 

A recent study published in the Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy concluded that there is a negative correlation between gun ownership and violent crime in countries internationally (more guns = less crime).

 

Nations with strict gun control laws have substantially higher murder rates than those who do not in general. In fact, the 9 European nations with the lowest gun ownership rate have a combined murder rate 3x that of the 9 European nations with the highest gun ownership rate!

 

Source is here

 

http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/past-tolls

 

And rates are increasing year to year.

[MicCanberra]

It's not so easy as just picking a different port. The cruise line ideally would want to choose somewhere as a substitute that would not disrupt the rest of the itinerary. If they skip Istanbul, they likely cannot sail to Kotor from the previous port in the same amount of time, nor sail back to make the next scheduled port.

 

Likely it will be some port in the Aegean. I think Thessaloniki would be a good choice, but Celebrity probably doesn't call there at any other time and would have to contract for shorex, etc.

 

Lots of variables....

 

For my cruise, we would miss Kusadasi (Ephesus) and as we go through to Venice, Kotor would suit.:D

[Aussie One]

What you guys are missing is the passengers disembarking and embarking Istanbul. What would Celbrity do with these passengers . What port could they change for them Aussie

[MicCanberra]

What you guys are missing is the passengers disembarking and embarking Istanbul. What would Celbrity do with these passengers . What port could they change for them Aussie

 

Good question, one I cannot answer as it may differ for each cruise.

[NorthernLite]

What non EU port could be a replacement for the Turkey ports that are in the general vicinity that would not change the itinerary too much. Montenegro, Split, Kotor?

 

Albania.

[Cruise Junky]

What you guys are missing is the passengers disembarking and embarking Istanbul. What would Celbrity do with these passengers . What port could they change for them Aussie

 

When Oceania dropped Istanbul Athens was used as a embarkation/disembarkation port. If you didn't use their air, you were on your own for the changes.

[NorthernLite]

When Oceania dropped Istanbul Athens was used as a embarkation/disembarkation port. If you didn't use their air, you were on your own for the changes.

 

For Americans, airlines have to credit you the airfare if the State Department puts a country or city/airport at a certain degree of security warning or if strikes interrupt travel such as air traffic controllers who strike which closes air space.

 

And the Stars and Stripes just reported that all military dependents are being evacuated first to Germany and then new assignment housing as the units rotate members in and out. This is all military dependents all over Turkey as well as diplomatic dependents and non-essential personnel. We were trying to book a Regent cruise when they pulled Instanbul. Seems Celebrity will soon follow.

[littlelulu01]

For Americans, airlines have to credit you the airfare if the State Department puts a country or city/airport at a certain degree of security warning or if strikes interrupt travel such as air traffic controllers who strike which closes air space.

 

And the Stars and Stripes just reported that all military dependents are being evacuated first to Germany and then new assignment housing as the units rotate members in and out. This is all military dependents all over Turkey as well as diplomatic dependents and non-essential personnel. We were trying to book a Regent cruise when they pulled Instanbul. Seems Celebrity will soon follow.

 

This is good information for those who have booked flights.

 

Again I will say it's not a debate on what your chances of safety are in Turkey vs home or somewhere else. The travel Warning has been posted. It's not a matter of where people think there is more danger. It's about when Celebrity will notify booked passengers what changes will be made so they can start to make alternative plans.

 

I honestly wouldn't mind even major changes to the Silhouette cruise. Disney did it this year and they seem to be going along fine. I would be fine if Turkish and even ports in Isreal were replaced. Just want to know so that I can make an informed decision what company I'm giving my thousands to this year.

[MicCanberra]

Agreed, it is nice to know these things in advance so that alternatives can be found. however, once the decision is made, someone will always be in a situation where it is really inconvenient.

[Host Jazzbeau]

For Americans, airlines have to credit you the airfare if the State Department puts a country or city/airport at a certain degree of security warning or if strikes interrupt travel such as air traffic controllers who strike which closes air space.

 

And the Stars and Stripes just reported that all military dependents are being evacuated first to Germany and then new assignment housing as the units rotate members in and out. This is all military dependents all over Turkey as well as diplomatic dependents and non-essential personnel. We were trying to book a Regent cruise when they pulled Instanbul. Seems Celebrity will soon follow.

 

Regent pulled out because they have to dance to NCL's tune these days. Celebrity makes their own decisions.