I am so disappointed!!!!

[barbidoll]

I am so disappointed! We have (had) 2 reservations on the Jewel beginning Sept 17, Seattle - Vancouver and then Vancouver to LA.

 

NCL says this is in violation of the Jones Act and that I had to cancel one of them!

 

I can understand that if I were booking B2B but I did two separate reservations. Why would it matter especially if we were willing to pack up and disembark and then re-board with everyone else?

 

I'm so ticked off right now!!

 

Am I the only one that this does not make sense to?

 

Barbara

[Beaver1975]

I am so disappointed! We have (had) 2 reservations on the Jewel beginning Sept 17, Seattle - Vancouver and then Vancouver to LA.

 

NCL says this is in violation of the Jones Act and that I had to cancel one of them!

 

I can understand that if I were booking B2B but I did two separate reservations. Why would it matter especially if we were willing to pack up and disembark and then re-board with everyone else?

 

I'm so ticked off right now!!

 

Am I the only one that this does not make sense to?

 

Barbara

 

Sorry, it is the law and has happened to a lot of people in the past.

[ChicagoBarb]

I tried to book the LA to Vancouver then Alaska. No go for the same reason.

 

Just one of those old laws that has never been changed for cruise ships.

[1025cruise]

Unfortunately, its an illegal itinerary. The ship cannot transport you between two US cities without stopping at a distant foreign port. Canada does not qualify as a distant port. The fact that you would disembark and get back on is irrelevant.

[EGG]

At least there are a lot of ways to get from Seattle to Vancouver.

[Turtles06]

It's not the Jones Act, it's the Passenger Vessel Services Act, a piece of protectionist legislation from the 19th Century, which prohibits foreign-flagged ships from transporting passengers between U.S. ports.

 

I don't know whether NCL is correctly applying it here, given that these are two separate cruises and can be booked as such, but there are a few PVSA experts on this board who may know.

 

And OP: I agree with you, it makes no sense in this situation (whether or not the PVSA itself still serves some legitimate purpose).

[Kamloops50]

I am so disappointed! We have (had) 2 reservations on the Jewel beginning Sept 17, Seattle - Vancouver and then Vancouver to LA.

 

NCL says this is in violation of the Jones Act and that I had to cancel one of them!

 

I can understand that if I were booking B2B but I did two separate reservations. Why would it matter especially if we were willing to pack up and disembark and then re-board with everyone else?

 

I'm so ticked off right now!!

 

Am I the only one that this does not make sense to?

 

Barbara

 

You can't travel between two US ports on the same ship. Even if booked as two separate cruises . It's still considered as a B2B in the US law quoted.

Vancouver isn't considered to be a distance foreign port.

[LrgPizza]

Sorry! It's not NCL's fault. They'd like to have your money. LOL!

[dexddd]

This comes up every once in awhile. There were a few people who were on our sailing in 2009 going from Vancouver to LA but wanted to take the one nighter from Seattle to Vancouver the day before. They had it booked for months and then NCL figured it out and cancelled them all.

 

Most took a different ship up as Princess was doing the one nighter.

[punkincc]

This was back in 2013, but we had booked two seperate cruises, same ship, from a port in California, I don't recall which, to Vancouver, and then Vancouver to Alaska, round trip ending in Vancouver. Some on our roll call got grief from NCL, telling them they had to book one leg on a different ship.

 

Advise on the board was to contact the VP of passenger services at NCL. That was done and suddenly the b2b was legal. We ended up cancelling the leg to Vancouver, but several others on the roll call did both legs with no issues.

 

I don't understand this law, and the problem is, neither do the phone reps at NCL who try to get involved in interpreting it, often incorrectly.

 

I would kick it up the ladder if you have to. Worse case scenario, drop the shorter cruise from Seattle, ( is it just one night? ) and just start your cruise in Vancouver.

Edited June 17, 2016 by punkincc

[sanger727]

This was back in 2013, but we had booked two seperate cruises, same ship, from a port in California, I don't recall which, to Vancouver, and then Vancouver to Alaska, round trip ending in Vancouver. Some on our roll call got grief from NCL, telling them they had to book one leg on a different ship.

 

Advise on the board was to contact the VP of passenger services at NCL. That was done and suddenly the b2b was legal. We ended up cancelling the leg to Vancouver, but several others on the roll call did both legs with no issues.

 

I don't understand this law, and the problem is, neither do the phone reps at NCL who try to get involved in interpreting it, often incorrectly.

 

I would kick it up the ladder if you have to. Worse case scenario, drop the shorter cruise from Seattle, ( is it just one night? ) and just start your cruise in Vancouver.

 

 

This doesn't sound like it would have been illegal in the first place if your trips final destination was Vancouver. The issue seems to be if your original and final destination are two different us cities.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums mobile app

[Shawnino]

I am so disappointed! We have (had) 2 reservations on the Jewel beginning Sept 17, Seattle - Vancouver and then Vancouver to LA.

 

NCL says this is in violation of the Jones Act and that I had to cancel one of them!

 

I can understand that if I were booking B2B but I did two separate reservations. Why would it matter especially if we were willing to pack up and disembark and then re-board with everyone else?

 

I'm so ticked off right now!!

 

Am I the only one that this does not make sense to?

 

Barbara

 

The opposite of 'pro' is 'con'.

What's the opposite of 'progress'?

 

 

(Steven Wright's question, I think.)

[barbidoll]

Thanks everyone for your replies.

[punkincc]

This doesn't sound like it would have been illegal in the first place if your trips final destination was Vancouver. The issue seems to be if your original and final destination are two different us cities.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums mobile app

 

That may be part of the issue, but there has to be more to it than that, as there are many repo cruises in which the ship departs an east coast port and ends up in a gulf port and then another cruise ending in a west coast port, and then a trip from there up to Seattle or Vancouver. Many people commonly string these cruises together. It may depend on the ports hit along the way, but you can definately do a start and finish in two US ports.

 

The OPs situation may indeed be a violation, but I would not take the word of a customer service rep on it. They seldom get anything right, let alone interpretation of a complicated law.

 

To the OP, if you had posted Jones Act or PVSA in your title, it might have gotten some attention from those who understand the law and can interpret it, rather than a vague title which many will not even open. You may want to repost it.

Edited June 17, 2016 by punkincc

[1025cruise]

As long as the ship sails to a foreign distant port, the repos are OK. For example, most of the repos hit the ABC islands (Aruba, Bonaire, Curacao). Those are considered far distant ports, which allow the repo cruise to be legal.

This law is the reason behind the Alaska itineraries. The round trips from Seattle must stop in Canada for the cruise to be legal, and the one ways are to/from Vancouver.

[Cruise_More_Often]

barbidoll, the Crown Princess seems to be cruising from Seattle to Vancouver on September 17. You could always book that cruise to get you to Vancouver. We have done the same thing -- Princess from Seattle to Vancouver, then the Jewel from Vancouver to Los Angeles. Another time we took the Pearl to Vancouver, then switched over to a Princess ship for Vancouver to San Francisco.

Edited June 17, 2016 by Cruise_More_Often

[chengkp75]

This was back in 2013, but we had booked two seperate cruises, same ship, from a port in California, I don't recall which, to Vancouver, and then Vancouver to Alaska, round trip ending in Vancouver. Some on our roll call got grief from NCL, telling them they had to book one leg on a different ship.

 

Advise on the board was to contact the VP of passenger services at NCL. That was done and suddenly the b2b was legal. We ended up cancelling the leg to Vancouver, but several others on the roll call did both legs with no issues.

 

I don't understand this law, and the problem is, neither do the phone reps at NCL who try to get involved in interpreting it, often incorrectly.

 

I would kick it up the ladder if you have to. Worse case scenario, drop the shorter cruise from Seattle, ( is it just one night? ) and just start your cruise in Vancouver.

 

That may be part of the issue, but there has to be more to it than that, as there are many repo cruises in which the ship departs an east coast port and ends up in a gulf port and then another cruise ending in a west coast port, and then a trip from there up to Seattle or Vancouver. Many people commonly string these cruises together. It may depend on the ports hit along the way, but you can definately do a start and finish in two US ports.

 

The OPs situation may indeed be a violation, but I would not take the word of a customer service rep on it. They seldom get anything right, let alone interpretation of a complicated law.

 

To the OP, if you had posted Jones Act or PVSA in your title, it might have gotten some attention from those who understand the law and can interpret it, rather than a vague title which many will not even open. You may want to repost it.

 

In the case of the Cal to Vancouver, and then round trip Vancouver to Alaska and back to Vancouver, both legs together would be legal, since your voyage started in a US port and ended in a foreign port (Vancouver).

 

The repo cruises from the East Coast to the West Coast, through the Panama Canal, all call at a "distant" foreign port, either the "ABC islands" (Aruba, Bonaire, or Curacao), or Cartagena, Columbia. If the vessel calls at a "distant" foreign port it may transport passengers between two different US ports. "Distant" foreign port cannot be in North or Central America, the Caribbean, except the ABC's, or Bermuda.

 

For the OP, the problem is that CBP does not care how you booked the cruises, as two separate times, at once as a b2b, or whatever, or whether you get off the ship completely and reboard the same day. The reality to them is that you are being transported by one ship from one US port to another. There must be a calendar break between the two cruises (i.e. you must disembark the first leg one day, and embark the second leg at least the next day.

 

Princess, doing their repo's, have a one night cruise between Seattle and Vancouver, for just this reason, and folks can transfer themselves (you have to get off with your baggage) Seattle and Vancouver. I doubt that NCL has set up the cruises this way (they haven't in the past), and they most likely won't allow "downstream boarding" due to difficulties with CBP and manifest screening when they do this.

[pizzalady1]

The cruises the OP is talking about is:

1. Embarking in Seattle, going to Alaska and disembarking in Vancouver; and

2. Embarking in Vancouver on the same day the OP disembarked, then disembarking in LA.

 

So many of your suggestions were not relevant. OP--are there any other cruise lines going from Vancouver to LA. It would also be interesting in your contacted the VP of whatever that someone posted and see what they say. Please let us know.

[chengkp75]

The cruises the OP is talking about is:

1. Embarking in Seattle, going to Alaska and disembarking in Vancouver; and

2. Embarking in Vancouver on the same day the OP disembarked, then disembarking in LA.

 

So many of your suggestions were not relevant. OP--are there any other cruise lines going from Vancouver to LA. It would also be interesting in your contacted the VP of whatever that someone posted and see what they say. Please let us know.

 

I can tell you what an NCL VP would say about the exact itinerary you list above, just as I stated before. It's not gonna happen. The two cruises by themselves are legal, but when combined they violate the PVSA, and there's nothing a corporate VP can do about that.

[Kamloops50]

The cruises the OP is talking about is:

 

1. Embarking in Seattle, going to Alaska and disembarking in Vancouver; and

 

2. Embarking in Vancouver on the same day the OP disembarked, then disembarking in LA.

 

 

 

So many of your suggestions were not relevant. OP--are there any other cruise lines going from Vancouver to LA. It would also be interesting in your contacted the VP of whatever that someone posted and see what they say. Please let us know.

 

 

If the same ship its illegal

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[sjbdtz]

In the case of the Cal to Vancouver, and then round trip Vancouver to Alaska and back to Vancouver, both legs together would be legal, since your voyage started in a US port and ended in a foreign port (Vancouver).

 

The repo cruises from the East Coast to the West Coast, through the Panama Canal, all call at a "distant" foreign port, either the "ABC islands" (Aruba, Bonaire, or Curacao), or Cartagena, Columbia. If the vessel calls at a "distant" foreign port it may transport passengers between two different US ports. "Distant" foreign port cannot be in North or Central America, the Caribbean, except the ABC's, or Bermuda.

 

For the OP, the problem is that CBP does not care how you booked the cruises, as two separate times, at once as a b2b, or whatever, or whether you get off the ship completely and reboard the same day. The reality to them is that you are being transported by one ship from one US port to another. There must be a calendar break between the two cruises (i.e. you must disembark the first leg one day, and embark the second leg at least the next day.

 

Princess, doing their repo's, have a one night cruise between Seattle and Vancouver, for just this reason, and folks can transfer themselves (you have to get off with your baggage) Seattle and Vancouver. I doubt that NCL has set up the cruises this way (they haven't in the past), and they most likely won't allow "downstream boarding" due to difficulties with CBP and manifest screening when they do this.

 

 

Not only that, but it's not just cruiselines. I'm taking my mum to Vegas this coming week, and I need to go Orlando when we return.

 

Because mum doesn't like to fly (neither do I, but that's another story), I'll fly back to Toronto with her at the end of our trip.

 

I tried to book my flight to Orlando the same day (so I wouldn't have to go downtown from the airport, etc.), but was told I needed a minimum of 4 hours in Toronto before I would be allowed to board another flight to the US.

 

The reasoning is that I couldn't use Toronto as a way-point between two US destinations, in the same itinerary (characterized as less than 4 hours between flights).

 

So I'm going to Orlando on Friday instead.

 

 

Stephen

 

.

[chengkp75]

Not only that, but it's not just cruiselines. I'm taking my mum to Vegas this coming week, and I need to go Orlando when we return.

 

Because mum doesn't like to fly (neither do I, but that's another story), I'll fly back to Toronto with her at the end of our trip.

 

I tried to book my flight to Orlando the same day (so I wouldn't have to go downtown from the airport, etc.), but was told I needed a minimum of 4 hours in Toronto before I would be allowed to board another flight to the US.

 

The reasoning is that I couldn't use Toronto as a way-point between two US destinations, in the same itinerary (characterized as less than 4 hours between flights).

 

So I'm going to Orlando on Friday instead.

 

 

Stephen

 

.

 

That would be with Air Canada? Yep, airlines have cabotage laws as well.

[Kamloops50]

To transfer between flights in Canada requires about four hours . There no law in Canada requiring four hours between flights,

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

Edited June 17, 2016 by Kamloops50

[Boschmann]

The repo cruises from the East Coast to the West Coast, through the Panama Canal, all call at a "distant" foreign port, either the "ABC islands" (Aruba, Bonaire, or Curacao), or Cartagena, Columbia. If the vessel calls at a "distant" foreign port it may transport passengers between two different US ports. "Distant" foreign port cannot be in North or Central America, the Caribbean, except the ABC's, or Bermuda.

 

How do they offer the Canada/New England cruises round trip from US ports if Canada isn't considered a distant foreign port? Does the law only pertain to non-round trip?

Edited June 17, 2016 by Boschmann

[punkincc]

In the case of the Cal to Vancouver, and then round trip Vancouver to Alaska and back to Vancouver, both legs together would be legal, since your voyage started in a US port and ended in a foreign port (Vancouver).

 

The repo cruises from the East Coast to the West Coast, through the Panama Canal, all call at a "distant" foreign port, either the "ABC islands" (Aruba, Bonaire, or Curacao), or Cartagena, Columbia. If the vessel calls at a "distant" foreign port it may transport passengers between two different US ports. "Distant" foreign port cannot be in North or Central America, the Caribbean, except the ABC's, or Bermuda.

 

For the OP, the problem is that CBP does not care how you booked the cruises, as two separate times, at once as a b2b, or whatever, or whether you get off the ship completely and reboard the same day. The reality to them is that you are being transported by one ship from one US port to another. There must be a calendar break between the two cruises (i.e. you must disembark the first leg one day, and embark the second leg at least the next day.

 

Princess, doing their repo's, have a one night cruise between Seattle and Vancouver, for just this reason, and folks can transfer themselves (you have to get off with your baggage) Seattle and Vancouver. I doubt that NCL has set up the cruises this way (they haven't in the past), and they most likely won't allow "downstream boarding" due to difficulties with CBP and manifest screening when they do this.

 

 

OP, now this is someone who you can trust to know what he's talking about!

 

My concern was that the NCL rep did not know what she was talking about, as this is what happened on our Cali to Vancouver and then Vancouver roundtrip Alaska. Nearly had some of us cancelling one leg.

 

If I understand you correctly, then the OP could, if there was an NCL cruise out of Vancouver with the right date, do Alaska roundtrip via Vancouver, and then take the same ship b2b back to Los Angeles. She just can't leave from Seattle.