NCL building 6 new ships?!

[Casino Comp Chick]

Norwegian is in growth mode, so I wouldn't anticipate any ships leaving the fleet. There are rumors of Sky sailing to Cuba, for instance. Capacity is needed in China, apparently, and markets like Australia and Asia (aside from China) are barely served by NCL.

 

What's particularly exciting about these new six ships, arriving in 2022 and thereafter according to the rumor, is that the new-builds are just a bit larger than Celebrity's Solstice class. It's been obvious to me that Celebrity is the cruise line that NCL wants to compare itself to. So these ships would make sense in that regard.

 

Let's pray they feature something like Celebrity's solarium pool! Hint, hint. :p

 

I'm glad someone agrees with me. Celebrity's ships are all 122k GT and smaller; HAL's new Pinnacle class is <100k GT. As I said above, I think FDR is determined to make NCL the high energy, family friendly, affordably upscale competitor to the above brands. RCI, Princess and Carnival already dominate the mass market; I think NCL has always wanted to be niche, hence Freestyle. Now it is especially important that Norwegian be more like HAL and Celebrity because NCLH wants Norwegian to be a brand that feeds customers into Oceania and then Regent Seven Seas.

 

 

 

With the build out of the stupidly-named Breakaway Plus! class, NCL will have two ships at 146.6k GT; one at 155.9k GT; and four at 164.6k GT. That's seven "mega" ships that really translate as smallish mega size ships in a total fleet of 17.

 

Already you see NCL making decisions that indicate that they have enough seasonal capacity in certain markets. Europe: Epic was supposed to be there year round, but it was too big for winters in the Mediterranean. Caribbean: Escape and Getaway were both in the Caribbean year round, except there wasn't enough business to command the prices NCL wants, so now Getaway is going to Europe and only Escape is staying in the Caribbean.

 

I think this new class of ship [let's call it Breakaway-Minus! No, let's not. :p] signals that Norwegian is going to build ships that are smaller than its competitors. And this is smart. With Carnival, RCI and MSC building gigantic ships that truly cram passengers into tiny amounts of space (especially in the case of Carnival and MSC) all that capacity in the market is going to force prices down.

 

I think this strategy, if true, shows FDR is thinking ahead. I hope it's all true.

 

Good luck to them with that, I have never had any interest in the geriatric set brands of Celebrity, Princess, Oceania or Prestige. We were parked next to Aida & a Crystal ship and I made comment "I see dead people" followed by "I would never sail on either line"

Edited October 5, 2016 by Casino Comp Chick

[Casino Comp Chick]

Duplicate

Edited October 5, 2016 by Casino Comp Chick

[karoo]

Which ships will be leaving the fleet?

 

 

Hopefully the Spirit, Star and Dawn.

 

 

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[karoo]

I agree, the NCL Spirit is a nice ship....but figured one of the older ones..maybe it would be replaced.

 

 

 

Glad to hear it is getting refurb'd

 

 

I'm definitely not a fan of the Spirit. Old with tacky decor!

 

 

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[jpcdds6]

That's a good one.

[DirtyDawg]

I was just reading on Cruise Industry News that NCL is about to order six 130 000 ton ships from Fincantieri with deliveries starting in 2022.

 

FDR has built all of his newbuilds at Fincantieri.

 

Of course, NCL has said "No Comment"!

 

Interesting news.

 

While this is nice news for the employees of Fincantieri and their families, ships being delivered beginning in six years time is just way to far away to be of interest to me.

 

Heck isn't 2022 the year that Donald Trump Jr. and Chelsea Clinton are starting their 2024 Presidential campaigns to replace one of their two term parents!:eek:

;)

[Cruisercl]

I was just reading on Cruise Industry News that NCL is about to order six 130 000 ton ships from Fincantieri with deliveries starting in 2022.

 

FDR has built all of his newbuilds at Fincantieri.

 

Of course, NCL has said "No Comment"!

 

Interesting news.

 

Is this where the Epic was built? If so, they were a disaster with union labor, delays and poor quality issues, but probably cheaper than Meyer Weft. Or was that some place else?

[LrgPizza]

There are already 2 more Breakaway Plus class ships on order from Meyer Werft for delivery June 2018 and Dec. 2019. If I'm reading this right, these 6 will then follow beginning in 2022, so we will have a total of 8 new ships. Very cool!

[SteveH2508]

Is this where the Epic was built? If so, they were a disaster with union labor, delays and poor quality issues, but probably cheaper than Meyer Weft. Or was that some place else?

 

Epic was built in France https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_Epic.

[NLH Arizona]

 

I think this new class of ship [let's call it Breakaway-Minus! No, let's not. :p] signals that Norwegian is going to build ships that are smaller than its competitors. And this is smart. With Carnival, RCI and MSC building gigantic ships that truly cram passengers into tiny amounts of space (especially in the case of Carnival and MSC) all that capacity in the market is going to force prices down.

 

I think this strategy, if true, shows FDR is thinking ahead. I hope it's all true.

I agree. Not everyone likes the huge mega ships with 4,000 passengers. I'm guessing these will hold about 1,000 less passengers, which would be a big plus. It will still be big enough to have a few bells and whistles, but not the playground atmosphere of the mega ships and hopefully a little of Celebrity might rub off on them.

 

I'm also with you on them having a solarium pool.

[London-Calling]

The major cruise lines nearly always build new ships bigger than the class before.

 

130,000 gt is smaller than 'Epic', 'Breakaway' and 'Breakaway Plus'. Therefor it sounds very unlikely to me.

 

If NCL have ordered new ships, I think we can expect them to be nearer 200,000gt.

Edited October 5, 2016 by London-Calling

[dub237]

Yes but in italy the maximum Size they can bild is 140.000 so Ncl Will have 2 class of ships

 

 

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[CruisinHarvey]

I remember in a Q&A someone asking the captain of the Escape what would happen if the ship broke down. He said he thinks he knows what they were referring to. He said not to worry, NCL ships are built in Germany. It's like comparing a Fiat to a Mercedes. Wonder what he'll say now. LOL

[CruisinHarvey]

Is this where the Epic was built? If so, they were a disaster with union labor, delays and poor quality issues, but probably cheaper than Meyer Weft. Or was that some place else?

 

Actually it was just the opposite. The Epic is the most expensive ship NCL ever built. It cost 1.2 billion, compared to the Escape which cost 920 million, 5 years later.

Edited October 8, 2016 by CruisinHarvey

[deliver42]

The Epic was built in France. I think NCL has learned its lesson dealing with the French shipyard.

[don't-use-real-name]

What's not to like about a huge floating amusement park where your muster

station can serve as one of the rides ?

 

Building these mammoth ships is fine for the mass markets - but still yet there

are many places the small older ships can serve a function of getting into smaller

coves and shallow draft harbors that the beasts of the sea will have tender at

length or have a floating pier a half mile or more out to sea.

 

This and if everyone builds large Noah's arks there will be no place to float

them unless you like to consider parking them miles out to sea and using

a smaller more nimble vessel to go ashore !

 

Too much competition may lead to the decline of the industry ?

[Dr. Cocktail]

To make a short story long, I have had "interesting " conversations with Hotel Managers and Masters over the years.

 

Totally unscientific but 1) they all love Meyer Werft ships (but remember, many Haven Suites on the Breakaway had to be refurbished in the first year....)

 

2) they all hated fit and finish of Chantiers de L'Atlantique/STX BIG TIME (Norwegian Epic)

 

3) nearly ALL of Carnival Corp's new ships (Carnival, Princess, Cunard, Seabourn, Costa and P&O) are built by Fincantieri. No major complaints but HAL's brand new Koningsdam still has buckets in public areas catching all the leaks 6 months after launch!!!

Edited October 8, 2016 by Dr. Cocktail

[eroller]

 

I think this new class of ship [let's call it Breakaway-Minus! No, let's not. :p] signals that Norwegian is going to build ships that are smaller than its competitors. And this is smart. With Carnival, RCI and MSC building gigantic ships that truly cram passengers into tiny amounts of space (especially in the case of Carnival and MSC) all that capacity in the market is going to force prices down.

 

 

 

It's not the size of the ship that matters, it's how many passengers it will carry and how well it's designed. Sure 130,000 gt sounds great, but not if it carries 4000 pax double occupancy. Also NCL likes to stuff a bunch of crap (aka attractions) on the already limited upper decks, so we will see how that plays out.

 

The Oasis Class with Royal Caribbean is big, but people are not "stuffed" into them. In fact they are quite spacious and don't feel nearly as crowded as the EPIC, ESPCAPE, or Breakaway class all which have lower space ratios. Also the ship is expertly designed. The new NCL ships not so much as they tend to feel very crowded.

 

Another good example is Crystal's new Exclusive Class ships. They will be 100,000 gt which is exceptionally large for a luxury ship. The key is they will only carry 1000 passengers, giving them them the highest space ratio in the world. They will be large ships, but extremely spacious.

 

Personally I think NCL has a long way to go if they want to feel premium like Celebrity. First and foremost they can rescind some of FDR's nickel and diming policies. Nothing about that feels "premium". Second they can build ships with higher space ratios. That remains to be seen. FYI Celebrity's new "Edge Class" will be smaller than the existing Solstice Class ships, and they promise to be amazing.

 

So far FDR's strategy hasn't worked so well for NCL. Stock is way down year over year, and NCLH was just downgraded to neutral from buy .

Edited October 8, 2016 by eroller

[dexddd]

Yes but in italy the maximum Size they can bild is 140.000 so Ncl Will have 2 class of ships

 

 

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Are you sure about that? I think the MSC Seaside is 154 and is being built in Italy.

[Cruiser Bruiser]

It's not the size of the ship that matters, it's how many passengers it will carry and how well it's designed. Sure 130,000 gt sounds great, but not if it carries 4000 pax double occupancy. Also NCL likes to stuff a bunch of crap (aka attractions) on the already limited upper decks, so we will see how that plays out.

 

The Oasis Class with Royal Caribbean is big, but people are not "stuffed" into them. In fact they are quite spacious and don't feel nearly as crowded as the EPIC, ESPCAPE, or Breakaway class all which have lower space ratios. Also the ship is expertly designed. The new NCL ships not so much as they tend to feel very crowded.

 

Another good example is Crystal's new Exclusive Class ships. They will be 100,000 gt which is exceptionally large for a luxury ship. The key is they will only carry 1000 passengers, giving them them the highest space ratio in the world. They will be large ships, but extremely spacious.

 

Personally I think NCL has a long way to go if they want to feel premium like Celebrity. First and foremost they can rescind some of FDR's nickel and diming policies. Nothing about that feels "premium". Second they can build ships with higher space ratios. That remains to be seen. FYI Celebrity's new "Edge Class" will be smaller than the existing Solstice Class ships, and they promise to be amazing.

 

So far FDR's strategy hasn't worked so well for NCL. Stock is way down year over year, and NCLH was just downgraded to neutral from buy .

 

I agree entirely with your premise that size alone cannot predict the quality of this new class of ship. As we know, all NCL ships since Epic are derived from an architecture that began with Epic, for better or worse. And yes, they are all relatively small and crowded with people and features, especially as compared with RCI's newest ships, albeit at a much lower cost-to-sail, even with the so-called nickel and diming.

 

However, FDR's history building ships for Regent Seven Seas and Oceania, and NCL's history with ships like the ever-popular Jewel class, make me hopeful that he is aiming for a more elegant (i.e. simplified) but still family friendly and relatively high energy design. I look at the transformation of Dawn as a further sign of hope of what FDR wants to do with the fleet.

[deliver42]

Dexdddd, you are right about MSC building in Italy, and about the size.

[Flamencacha]

Don't forget the Spirit....

 

 

 

Please not the SPIRIT.

 

 

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[eroller]

 

However, FDR's history building ships for Regent Seven Seas and Oceania, and NCL's history with ships like the ever-popular Jewel class, make me hopeful that he is aiming for a more elegant (i.e. simplified) but still family friendly and relatively high energy design. I look at the transformation of Dawn as a further sign of hope of what FDR wants to do with the fleet.

 

 

I do like the more elegant yet contemporary decor that is happening with the refurbs on NCL. That is probably the only thing I like that FDR is doing with NCL. I sailed on Oceania's RIVIERA earlier this year and the art was stunning, but the decor so-so. It was hit or miss. The new SEVEN SEAS EXPLORER, which he ridiculously touts as the most luxurious ship in the world actually looks a bit garish to me, at least for an ultra-luxury ship. Perhaps FDR should leave the interior decor to the interior designers. Just because you're the head of a major cruise company doesn't mean you have good taste.

 

Anyway NCL has already retreated on the "no discounting policy" that FDR was so adamant about. It may work for premium (Oceania) and luxury lines (Regent) but mass-market is another animal. NCL is back to offering lead-in prices that don't include all the amenities. Also NCL still doesn't have the best reputation out there, but it's getting better. Kevin Sheehan really put NCL back on the map and can be attributed with its turnaround. I just hope FDR doesn't backtrack on that success. He seems a bit arrogant in the way he runs things. Besides some decor upgrades, I haven't seen any tangible attributes that make NCL more premium. That would mean larger cabins, a higher staff to pax ratio, more included amenities, better attention to detail, and a higher space ratio among others. I'm sailing on EPIC in the Haven later this month, so we will see how that stacks up. I'm looking forward to it but it will probably be my last NCL cruise for a while. We will know more about how serious FDR is about making NCL more premium when more details of the new builds are released. Just because they are a little smaller in size means nothing at this point.

Edited October 8, 2016 by eroller

[dub237]

Are you sure about that? I think the MSC Seaside is 154 and is being built in Italy.

 

 

Yes but not on the same place.

msc Will build in monfalcone shipyard and Ncl ships Will be build in marghera.

 

 

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[FreestyleNovice]

Following along, been a while since a good quality thread all! :)

 

The choice for Fincantieri might be a result of Meyer's full order books (incl. Finland)?