Is the age of many HAL ships a problem for potential HAL cruisers??

[Hlitner]

Sure, age is an issue for many folks. HAL has done a fine job maintaining the P'Dam (our favorite HAL vessel) but some folks want the modern amenities found on newer (and larger) ships. And the little things do bother some folks. For example, the P'Dam does not have an electrical outlet in most of the bathrooms and the cabins usually have a single outlet. And A/C systems on older ships often result in hot spots and some very cold spots. An even bigger issue with many of the older HAL ships are their lack of passenger balconies...when compared to newer ships. For example, we have a Rotterdam booking in an outside cabin. That regular outside cabin will actually cost us more, per passenger day, then a nice balcony cabin on many other ships/lines. And the Rotterdam only has a single small swimming pool which can be an issue for those that want to get their exercise in a pool.

 

Hank

[kazu]

I just finished a 30 day cruise on the Prinsendam. The internet was surprisingly fast, I checked email and pasted my message to my live thread in less than a minute sometimes. I do not know if the internet is always that fast, there may have been few people using it. The free New York Times and Holland America websites were not nearly as fast for some reason.

 

I experienced no mechanical issues. HVAC worked, toilets flushed, we had plenty of hot water, elevators operated, etc. There was a sewage smell on one side of the deck, never noticed it indoors.

 

I did see buckets catching drips here and there, especially after a downpour. There is some wear and tear. The mirror over the bathtub had lost some of its silver, for instance. Also, in spite of her aged clientele, Prinsendam has a lot of inclines, ramps, and steps that a new ship would not.

 

 

Whogo,

 

Last time I was on the P'dam the internet was awesome. Even on the TA, we never hit a "dead spot".

 

It's my favourite ship and like others, I prefer the older, smaller ones. They won't be around forever. Would be nice if they had added dining venues, etc. But you can't have everything :)

 

 

By the way, your LIVE thread was absolutely excellent. I enjoyed reading it every day. You are very talented and no grouch :)

[kelmac]

Prinsendam - 1988

Maasdam - 1993

Veendam - 1996

Rotterdam - 1997

Volendam - 1998

Zaandam - 1999

Amsterdam - 2000

Zuiderdam - 2002

Oosterdam - 2003

Westerdam - 2004

Noordam - 2006

Eurodam - 2008

Nieuw Amsterdam - 2010

Koningsdam - 2016

 

I prefer HAL's older, smaller ships, with Amsterdam being my favorite. DH likes the newer/larger.

 

I think the age of the HAL fleet is not keeping up with the Competition. Celebrity is collecting up all the old HAL cruisers for a couple of reasons; of course the smoking policy is the big one (soon to change); the age and lack of innovation in Holland America's fleet is also a factor. Celebrity has shed five of their older ships (Horizon, Zenith, Century, Mercury & Galaxy) and replaced them with five Solstice class ships. They also have four more on order (The Edge Class), with the first one coming out in 2018.

 

Celebrity's Ships:

2000 Millennium

2001 Infinity

2001 Summit

2002 Constellation

2008 Solstice

2009 Equinox

2010 Eclipse

2011 Silhouette

2012 Reflection

 

The average age of the HAL fleet is around 15 years old; the average age of the Celebrity fleet is 10 years old. It shows in the amenities onboard.

If I want a small ship experience, I will cruise Azamara or Oceania.

 

My thoughts only, mileage my vary!

Kel:)

[OlsSalt]

I think the age of the HAL fleet is not keeping up with the Competition. ...........

My thoughts only, mileage my vary!

Kel:)

 

Only when HAL start sailing empty ships at a loss, will they not be "keeping up with the competition". Sail on HAL small, older ships, as long as you and we can.

[iancal]

Could not agree more with you. IF we are paying a premium it will be on a premium ship/line. Perhaps Azamara.

 

When we see older ships in a cruise line fleet that have been on the selling block for years at a time it leads us to believe that the cruise line is only doing the absolute bare minimum of maintenance/upgrades. May not be the case but this is our impression.

[OlsSalt]

Could not agree more with you. IF we are paying a premium it will be on a premium ship/line. Perhaps Azamara.

 

When we see older ships in a cruise line fleet that have been on the selling block for years at a time it leads us to believe that the cruise line is only doing the absolute bare minimum of maintenance/upgrades. May not be the case but this is our impression.

 

Apparently not a valid conclusion - we were recently told by Capt Albert they keep raising the prices of their "old ships" because they really don't want to lose their loyal passenger base to the line that purchases these grand old ladies.

 

I suggest a moratorium about HAL maintenance standards comments, unless you have a direct inside line regarding what you are accusing them of doing. Or not doing.

[Vict0riann]

A valid complaint we heard, connected to the age of Prinsendam , was her lack of accessibility for the handicapped. No ramp to the outside deck at the dining room end of the ship, which meant always having to go forward, and, even worse, only four small elevators. Frequently, we were told, persons with wheelchairs or walkers just couldn't get in, and no one would get out to let them in. I suppose you could say that was more the fault of the passengers than the ship, but it certainly made for some long waits!

[Tom O.]

I suggest a moratorium about HAL maintenance standards comments, unless you have a direct inside line regarding what you are accusing them of doing. Or not doing.

 

What would this board be like if we never disagreed?

If that case, I suggest a moratorium on any comments that disagree with any of my comments.

[RocketMan275]

Frequently, we were told, persons with wheelchairs or walkers just couldn't get in, and no one would get out to let them in.

 

Are passengers obligated to get off an elevator to allow a wheel chaired passengers a place in the elevator?

[OlsSalt]

What would this board be like if we never disagreed?

If that case, I suggest a moratorium on any comments that disagree with any of my comments.

 

Disagreement is one thing, intentionally spreading false stories and making unfounded accusations is another. May we continue to know the difference and report accordingly.

Edited November 21, 2016 by OlsSalt

[sammiedawg]

Smaller, older ships are really charming, IF (and this is a really, really BIG IF) the cruise line is willing and able to maintain those aging ships.

The HAL fleet is getting older.

The ships are wearing out.

HAL and Carnival Corp have demonstrated a reluctance to spend the money required to keep those ships in great working order.

Internal systems like toilets, water supplies, elevators, lifeboat davits, generators, sewage systems, ventilation systems, and exhaust scrubbers are not working as they should. HAL makes many excuses, but the answer is money - that they are not willing to spend to deliver the product they promise.

 

This is pretty accurate.

Several older HAL ships have been for sale for years, but there are no buyers. They continue to sail because long time fiercely loyal HAL cruisers love this ships and the home office chooses itineraries likely to please this group.

My last three HAL cruises were on one of the older ships and we experienced significant mechanical issues on two of the three. I doubt we will sail any of them again.

We had no issues on Ryndam which was in decent shape and was deemed worthy of a transfer to P and O.

[KirkNC]

Yes, the age of HAL ships is a problem. We don't like the new ones. Smaller and more classic is better for us. :cool:

 

Hear hear, we agree.

[Tom O.]

Disagreement is one thing, intentionally spreading false stories and making unfounded accusations is another. May we continue to know the difference and report accordingly.

 

Thanks for clarifying, Salty. By the way, I agree with 99% of your posts, I always take time to read them.

[KirkNC]

Could not agree more with you. IF we are paying a premium it will be on a premium ship/line. Perhaps Azamara.

 

When we see older ships in a cruise line fleet that have been on the selling block for years at a time it leads us to believe that the cruise line is only doing the absolute bare minimum of maintenance/upgrades. May not be the case but this is our impression.

 

HAL just spent $15mm on the P'dam. That sounds like a lot of money to me so I think they are maintaining what they have. At the end of the day, if the age of the ship is a concern, HAL might not be the best choice. I find when some focus on a topic, they can find fault with it where others don't. You can certainly do that on the P'dam but we focus on the things we like about her instead.

[iancal]

Really. IF the ship is on the market for years and the cruise line does not want another company to buy the ship why not simply take the ship off the market?

 

And if they really want to sell, why raise the price even higher if there has been no takers at the current price for years on end????

[srlafleur]

I never even think twice about the age of a ship I book. I only care that it's going where I want to go, when I want to go, at a price I want to pay.

That said, I LIKE feeling like I'm on a ship rather than in a land-locked mall, so small is just fine with me!

[kazu]

Really. IF the ship is on the market for years and the cruise line does not want another company to buy the ship why not simply take the ship off the market?

 

And if they really want to sell, why raise the price even higher if there has been no takers at the current price for years on end????

 

I think you answered your own question. They raise the price because they really don't want to sell them, at least, not yet. But as one captain once said "any ship is for sale at the RIGHT price". ;). So, if someone wants to be an astronomical price, they will sell. Otherwise the ships will sail :)

[cruisemom42]

I never even think twice about the age of a ship I book. I only care that it's going where I want to go, when I want to go, at a price I want to pay.

That said, I LIKE feeling like I'm on a ship rather than in a land-locked mall, so small is just fine with me!

 

I like small ships as much as the average HAL cruiser -- perhaps more so, since the ships I prefer hold fewer passengers than even Prinsendam! And they are not new ships...

 

But I'd be lying if I said I didn't think twice about the age of a ship. It concerns me when I hear of repeated issues with air conditioning and plumbing especially. I'm certainly willing to overlook small issues of wear and tear, but I do expect things to work when and where they are supposed to work.

[iancal]

I do not think $15M is very much to spend on a ship. IF the ship is worth, lets say for argument 600M, that is really on 2.5 percent. My guess is that many people spend as much on their homes. I think they could easily spend that much on soft goods, new logo plates, towels etc, mattresses etc. without even a lick of paint.

 

It is not only the cost of repairs and upkeep, it is the downtime required to renew/replace some of the major engineering systems such as HVAC and water/plumbing.

Edited November 21, 2016 by iancal

[KirkNC]

I do not think $15M is very much to spend on a ship. IF the ship is worth, lets say for argument 600M, that is really on 2.5 percent. My guess is that many people spend as much on their homes. I think they could easily spend that much on soft goods, new logo plates, towels etc, mattresses etc. without even a lick of paint.

 

It is not only the cost of repairs and upkeep, it is the downtime required to renew/replace some of the major engineering systems such as HVAC and water/plumbing.

 

Perhaps but one of the items replaced on the P'dam this spring was the water processor (the de-salinization equipment). A large amount was soft goods, carpet, furniture etc but they also sand blasted the entire hull and gave her a nice new coat of paint. As I said in another post, if these things bother you, you might be better suited to another ship or another line. For us it is not an issue. I think if you board a ship concerned about age, you will find things to justify your feelings.

[Tom O.]

I do not think $15M is very much to spend on a ship. IF the ship is worth, lets say for argument 600M, that is really on 2.5 percent.

 

 

It would probably still be a good investment. Much cheaper than building a new ship.

Edited November 21, 2016 by Tom O.

[Topsham]

I do not think $15M is very much to spend on a ship. IF the ship is worth, lets say for argument 600M, that is really on 2.5 percent. My guess is that many people spend as much on their homes. I think they could easily spend that much on soft goods, new logo plates, towels etc, mattresses etc. without even a lick of paint.

 

QUOTE]

 

 

 

Prinsendam passed by at Bermuda six months. They had given her a 'lick of paint'.... she was spotless and the hull shined.

 

Veendam was in Bermuda for four weeks totally 18 days while in Hamilton. The barge with the cherry picker was hired and painted hull and superstructure... both sides. The paint shined. The new logo? Well, could have given that a miss. I don't know what other was done on VEDM, but there don't seem to be any issues being reported in CC. I guess we assume that they are looking after the ship (s).

[cbr663]

... I am considering a HAL trip in 2017, but honestly hesitate only because of the slow internet speeds on all the cruise lines I have been on except my first Celebrity cruise in September. As much as I did not like a lot about my experience on Millennium, I would sail on Celebrity again PRIMARILY due to their far superior internet service than even my beloved Crystal offers! I have events that I want to watch which I cant watch in the USA when matches are held in the USA(geoblocked by the rights holders of various tennis tournaments) and would love to be at sea again as I was in September, and be able to strea Davis Cup matches on board. No other line offers internet with as little lag, and speed comparable to tha of what I have at home!

 

OP, I am a little confused about your post as the age of a ship has very little to do with internet speeds. Internet speeds is directly related to the hardware installed on the ship and the ship's location. Any cruise line can update the internet hardware on its ships, just as a homeowner can update its hardware in their 100 year old home.

 

I think you would get the information you seek if you were to ask about ships with the fastest internet speeds, and not focus on the age of the ship. As you can see from the various threads, discussions on the age of the ship rarely cover internet speeds.

[srlafleur]

OP, I am a little confused about your post as the age of a ship has very little to do with internet speeds.

 

 

True enough. It would be completely possible to have state of the art internet on a dingy or the Mayflower, given the proper hardware upgrades.

:)

[Topsham]

True enough. It would be completely possible to have state of the art internet on a dingy or the Mayflower, given the proper hardware upgrades.

:)

 

 

 

Of course this is true. When most of the fleet were built there was no such thing as 'Internet'!