HAL's New Unwelcome Changes on the Oosterdam

[dag144]

We just returned from a 14 day Caribbean Cruise from Tampa. The Oosterdam looked fine after its recent (Spring, 2016) dry-dock. Our SS cabin was very nice. All changes were for the better.

 

However HAL has made three changes to this ship and its operation which disturbed me enough to book my next cruise with Princess. Here goes in order of the least bad to the most bad (for my cruise experience).

 

The library has been reduced to about 10 feet of books, fiction, non-fiction and non-English titles combined. There is a separate reference section with travel guides etc. No more librarian. I enjoyed the former set-up on the Nieuw Amsterdam in May. HAL is giving up some of its uniqueness with the demise of its former good library. I did find one book, but I seemed to be in the minority

 

Remember the Explorers Lounge. On the Oosterdam it has been brutally divided in half. One part remains the gracious lounge, largely unused in the evening. No more after dinner drinks or chocolates. The other half has become a small theater where one sits in rows to here the musicians (still excellent which cannot be said of this set-up. It looks weird

 

Now for the worst. The poor Ocean Bar - HAL has taken out the dance floor (dancing is now in the Queens Lounge if BB King is not playing. This has allowed the line to dispense with the combo. There is a piano player for short intervals at five, six, and eight. AT seven the lovely Ocean Bar is given over to Trivia players! Yes I did say Trivia! Alas the fate of a great HAL tradition which was developed over decades. UGH.

 

The Crows Nest is also devoid of a dance floor so no more live or disco music.

 

Finally a seasonal beef. We heard Christmas music all over the ship for 24 hours per day. The Cruise Director said this is company policy not to be changed once it was implemented on December 1st.

 

I am looking forward to my next cruise of the Star Princess, and will be very careful to check if these changes have gone fleet-wide.

[igraf]

There has always been a seating capacity problem in the Explorer's Lounge for those of us who enjoy listening to the Adagio Duo, and the lounge seating often resulted in awkward viewing angles. The new seating arrangement will allow more passengers to enjoy the live music performance, and as you pointed out there remains a conventional lounge for others. Not sure why you are objecting to this. Sounds like a win-win to me.

 

BTW, the Adagio Duo was excellent on our recent Westerdam cruise.

 

igraf

 

 

 

 

....

 

Remember the Explorers Lounge. On the Oosterdam it has been brutally divided in half. One part remains the gracious lounge, largely unused in the evening. No more after dinner drinks or chocolates. The other half has become a small theater where one sits in rows to here the musicians (still excellent which cannot be said of this set-up. It looks weird

 

....

[RocketMan275]

There has always been a seating capacity problem in the Explorer's Lounge for those of us who enjoy listening to the Adagio Duo, and the lounge seating often resulted in awkward viewing angles. The new seating arrangement will allow more passengers to enjoy the live music performance, and as you pointed out there remains a conventional lounge for others. Not sure why you are objecting to this. Sounds like a win-win to me.

 

BTW, the Adagio Duo was excellent on our recent Westerdam cruise.

 

igraf

 

The changes sound good to us.

[boards]

We were just on the same cruise and until I read OP remarks I hadn't really noticed the changes. The change in the Exploration Lounge must be for the good because I never seen it so well attended. The group (4 musicians) were very good, we sat and enjoyed them before dinner every night. The missing dance floors are okay with us because when we wanted to dance in the past they were always taken over by ballroom dancers and we couldn't enjoy the music to try to dance. However the BB king thing was not for us either. We still will continue to cruise with Hal.

[Been There, Planning That]

There was still a well maintained library on last winter's Celebrity cruise but the one on Princess in the fall of '15 was an absolute shambles with absolute no sorting; though much to my surprise there were a few novels with about 6 copies available for a book club discussion on some cruise. We read nothing about such a discussion on our 15 day TA.

 

I suspect that like noro virus library cuts is a disease rampant among cost cutters on any mainstream line.

 

This winter will be our first HAL cruise in a year and a bit, so we'll see. At least we've been well prepared for disapointment when we first visit the library.

 

Ruth

Edited December 11, 2016 by Been There, Planning That
Too late to eliminate a duplicate

[Been There, Planning That]

However HAL has made three changes to this ship and its operation which disturbed me enough to book my next cruise with Princess. Here goes in order of the least bad to the most bad (for my cruise experience).

 

The library has been reduced to about 10 feet of books, fiction, non-fiction and non-English titles combined. There is a separate reference section with travel guides etc. No more librarian. I enjoyed the former set-up on the Nieuw Amsterdam in May. HAL is giving up some of its uniqueness with the demise of its former good library. I did find one book, but I seemed to be in the minority

 

 

I am looking forward to my next cruise of the Star Princess, and will be very careful to check if these changes have gone fleet-wide.

 

Last winter there was still a well maintained library on Celebrity but our Princess cruise in the fall of '15 say the library in a complete shambles. There was evidence of former book club sets of novels but that too seems to be a thing of the past.

 

We return to HAL next winter with new low library expectations, unfortunately. I have a kindle but am too parsimonious to load up recent books I prefer when they're almost the same cost in hard copy. I couldn't begin to bring sufficient novels for three weeks. I'm manage with disappointment.

 

Ruth

[KirkNC]

I think those who love/need the library are bound to be disappointed. With the proliferation of tablets and readers it was bound to happen. As long as the space is well used I have not problem with it being repurposed.

[ski ww]

There was a post some time in the last week, where some one posted on a recent cruise they heard that HAL has been getting so many complaints about the library disappearing from ships that they are rethinking this policy. Time will tell.

Allan

[detroit70]

Remember the Explorers Lounge. On the Oosterdam it has been brutally divided in half. One part remains the gracious lounge, largely unused in the evening. No more after dinner drinks or chocolates. The other half has become a small theater where one sits in rows to here the musicians (still excellent which cannot be said of this set-up. It looks weird.

 

Are you still able to have a drink served while listening to the musicians in what was the Explorers Lounge? I'm boarding the Oosterdam in two weeks.

 

Thanks!

[dag144]

Are you still able to have a drink served while listening to the musicians in what was the Explorers Lounge? I'm boarding the Oosterdam in two weeks.

 

Thanks!

 

The theater seems to me to be too cramped for beverage service. It's similar to the small movie theater on the ship. The lounge area is quite dismal. No service and few people. It is just not conducive for anything except reading a book away from the canned music.

[Krazy Kruizers]

OP

Thank you for your comments.

Yes -- there was a big discussion some time ago about HAL getting rid of the librarians and the library. Which for us means hauling more books. My DH falls asleep while reading and the books crash to the floor. Thus no notebooks, Nooks, Kindles for us.

[alwaysfrantic]

I'm excited to hear there is trivia

more than once a day. Yes!

[Ineke]

We've just returned from the same cruise. We, too, noted the same, but on the whole had an excellent cruise. However, we made note on our guest survey that we truly misd the Crows Nest as it used to be! What a shame to have done away with the music at night, the dance floor, and all the good times that came with it. There was literally nobody up there in the evenings except two bartenders, who have hardly anything to do. We also missed the extensive library, we loved that about HAL ships. We hope they bring both back. And I'm with you on the Christmas music, for sure. Too much, too soon!

[boards]

Are you still able to have a drink served while listening to the musicians in what was the Explorers Lounge? I'm boarding the Oosterdam in two weeks.

 

Thanks!

 

There someone standing by asking people to be quiet walking by from dinner and there are no someone trying to sell drinks.

[JennysUncle]

Too bad that these changes are rolling out through the fleet. We really liked the library, both for the books and the ambience. Also, while we are not dancers, we often went to the Ocean Bar just to listen to the Neptunes, usually a good jazz combo. HAL seems to be remaking itself for a new demographic. Not nice for loyal cruisers whose stars won't transfer to another line.

[Gail & Marty sailing away]

I think those who love/need the library are bound to be disappointed. With the proliferation of tablets and readers it was bound to happen. As long as the space is well used I have not problem with it being repurposed.

 

I agree 100%

[Tampa Girl]

We were on the Oosterdam TA from Rome in November. I completely agree with the OP and for the very same reasons. And I did fill out the survey, noting them. What four musicians?? Not on the TA. There was a piano player and the dueling pianists near the Casino. The Crows Nest was dead, as well as the the Oceans Bar. Now and then you could hear the lonely pianist across the atrium - if Trivia was not going on. I thought the overall atmosphere was dead. Retirement home dead. And the ship is so beautiful! What a waste. It was a very boring crossing, and our feelings were shared by many others. So, for those of you have not yet been on her since the rehab, you might not find changes quite as attractive as you now think.

[boards]

We were on this cruise for relaxation and got it, but do have to agree that there was not a lot of interesting activities.

[Lynda S]

The cruise ships are missing the point of the library if they are closing them down because of e-books.

 

A library area is an area with very comfy chairs with a view of the ocean, a sanctuary for people to go to relax & do relaxing, peaceful, on-the-quiet side things such as reading (hardcovers, softcovers, paperbooks, kindles, nooks, e-readers, or 'whatever'), knitting, jigsaw puzzles, journal writing, research reference books for up coming ports, etc.

It's area where the people in the inside cabins (and anyone else too of course) can go and quietly read and watch the ocean go by. We always get a balcony for pretty well just that purpose, but not every one wants to spend the money on that.

 

It's not just to borrow books. It also LOOKS and feels like days gone by just having a quiet secluded area with lots of books on display. They can still do all of this by having the reference books open under 'somewhat' supervision at certain times of the day in order to check out reference books combined with 'Take a Book, Leave a Book' shelves for the other times.

 

I take my kindle due to luggage restrictions, but I love to flip through the reference books on the ports, or any other interesting subjects. And I love to just browse the titles of the fiction/non fiction just to see what is there. Books do not have to be continually bought on a ship, they do not have to have the latest bestsellers as we can get those on the kindle, etc. I have always believed that most books are timeless with the exception of the port-related reference books.

 

Many estates would probably just give the cruise lines the books, I know I have it in my will for the kids to do that when we are gone.

 

When we went on the Vanc-Hawaii-Vanc cruise in Oct on the Westerdam I was surprised to see that the library was part of the Crow's Nest area now - it was on the other side, but it is still very noisy and not well placed at all. It was not conducive to quiet at all. I didn't mind the Explorations Cafe, that could go hand in hand in hand with it, and I didn't mind the computers being there either as again, that fits too, it's just 'where' it was located. It would have been much better to switch the location with one of the quiet secluded bars down on the main floors.

[joekerstef]

The cruise ships are missing the point of the library if they are closing them down because of e-books.

 

A library area is an area with very comfy chairs with a view of the ocean, a sanctuary for people to go to relax & do relaxing, peaceful, on-the-quiet side things such as reading (hardcovers, softcovers, paperbooks, kindles, nooks, e-readers, or 'whatever'), knitting, jigsaw puzzles, journal writing, research reference books for up coming ports, etc.

It's area where the people in the inside cabins (and anyone else too of course) can go and quietly read and watch the ocean go by. We always get a balcony for pretty well just that purpose, but not every one wants to spend the money on that.

 

It's not just to borrow books. It also LOOKS and feels like days gone by just having a quiet secluded area with lots of books on display. They can still do all of this by having the reference books open under 'somewhat' supervision at certain times of the day in order to check out reference books combined with 'Take a Book, Leave a Book' shelves for the other times.

 

(snip)

THIS, so.much.this. I'm actually surprised by what I'm hearing about the libraries on this thread. When I was on Maasdam in June, the library was almost always packed with people reading and doing puzzles and the like. There was a librarian too (a very nice one). The only thing I didn't like about it was that the cigarette smell from the casino wafted into the side of the library that I preferred to sit in. I can see them maybe not buying so many books in the future, but it's nice to have a place to chill indoors that is not infused with "bar culture" however one conceives it (live music, trivia, booze, dancing, whatever). I would be very disappointed to not find such a place on the ship, particularly on a longer (two weeks or more) voyage. But it's also a bummer to hear that some of the bar areas are being under/not utilized too. Hopefully HAL takes note of the comments and reconsiders for future renovations.

[dag144]

I'm excited to hear there is trivia

more than once a day. Yes!

 

No problem with Trivia. Just the venue. Do you like a beer with your Trivia?

[Tinknock50]

When I saw the title of this thread, I got scared because I am taking this ship to Alaska in June. I relaxed when I saw the changes because for the most part I am OK with them. Whew!

 

I can't wait to experience the little theater for relaxing music!

[AtlantaCruiser72]

With regards to the libraries on HAL ships, and other changes .......

 

The Vista Class were originally built with a library/internet center on the Promenade Deck across from the conference rooms, this later became the "Explorations Cafe". In later refits the Zuiderdam, Oosterdam and Westerdam had the Explorations Cafe moved to the Crows Nest and the area it used to occupy on the Promenade deck was converted to a cinema and additional shopping - that change goes back to the 2010/11 timeframe. Once the Explorations Cafe was moved to the Crows Nest the amount of space for books was decreased vs the original location/library.

 

The Eurodam/N. Amsterdam were built with the Explorations Cafe in the Crows Nest from the Beginning, as was the Konigsdam, but on the Konigsdam the space for books was decreased.

 

The R & S class ships still have the larger Explorations cafe/library on the Upper Promenade deck.

 

With specific reference to the Oosterdam - I have seen video of the ship post refit and the Explorations cafe looks unchanged from when I last sailed her. Perhaps the bookshelves are not as full as they once were, but the physical space looks unchanged. The Crows nest portion does appear to have had the stage and dance floor removed (I think that was actually done when the Explorations Cafe was moved up there, though I could be wrong), but on my previous cruises on the Noordam, Oosterdam and Eurodam the Crows nest was rarely if ever used anyways in the evenings.

 

As far as the Ocean Bar - there still appears to be a dance floor on the Port side where it has always been. The dance floor itself may have been reduced in size, but it is still there. The Noordam and Eurodam/N. Amsterdam have a different Ocean Bar setup the the Zuiderdam/Oosterdam/Westerdam, so perhaps that is part of the differences you saw? on the Zuiderdam/Oosterdam/Westerdam the dance floor is port side and the bar itself on the starboard side,. On the Noordam, Eurodam and N. Amsterdam both the bar and the dance floor are on the starboard side, and port side is seating only. Each ship is a bit different.

 

I can't say whether the change of the Explorers Lounge partially into Lincoln Center Stage is a plus or minus, but it looks lovely decor wise post refit.

 

The one BIG plus I see was the conversion of the wasted space that was the Northern Lights Nightclub into the Gallery Bar - it looks like a lovely space!

 

HAL is trying to keep their ships relevant and profitable, and like most cruise lines will eliminate/modify under used venues to try and create better used spaces that will provide potentially more cashflow - libraries do not generate revenue of any kind, hence why most cruise lines are eliminating or reducing them as ships are refurbished or built. Many cruise lines are also reducing, or changing the mix of live music and entertainments to suit a younger audience (and to save money). The last few cruises I have been on the trivia sessions have been some of the most popular events onboard, regardless of time of day. I'm not a trivia person, but a large number of people seem to have a mania for it. That said I'm not sure the Ocean Bar is the best locale to host it, mostly due to the layout. Trivia sessions do seem to generate bar revenues though and by putting it in a high traffic area around the atrium perhaps the goal here is to encourage more attendees and enhance bar revenue?

 

At the end of the day HAL is adapting and changing. Not everyone will like these changes. HAL need to enhance their onboard revenues (reports have always been they under perform revenue wise compared to Princess and Carnival on a per day, per guest basis) and in many of the markets they compete in they simply cannot command enough cabin fare premium to offset that.

[dag144]

With regards to the libraries on HAL ships, and other changes .......

 

The Vista Class were originally built with a library/internet center on the Promenade Deck across from the conference rooms, this later became the "Explorations Cafe". In later refits the Zuiderdam, Oosterdam and Westerdam had the Explorations Cafe moved to the Crows Nest and the area it used to occupy on the Promenade deck was converted to a cinema and additional shopping - that change goes back to the 2010/11 timeframe. Once the Explorations Cafe was moved to the Crows Nest the amount of space for books was decreased vs the original location/library.

 

The Eurodam/N. Amsterdam were built with the Explorations Cafe in the Crows Nest from the Beginning, as was the Konigsdam, but on the Konigsdam the space for books was decreased.

 

The R & S class ships still have the larger Explorations cafe/library on the Upper Promenade deck.

 

With specific reference to the Oosterdam - I have seen video of the ship post refit and the Explorations cafe looks unchanged from when I last sailed her. Perhaps the bookshelves are not as full as they once were, but the physical space looks unchanged. The Crows nest portion does appear to have had the stage and dance floor removed (I think that was actually done when the Explorations Cafe was moved up there, though I could be wrong), but on my previous cruises on the Noordam, Oosterdam and Eurodam the Crows nest was rarely if ever used anyways in the evenings.

 

As far as the Ocean Bar - there still appears to be a dance floor on the Port side where it has always been. The dance floor itself may have been reduced in size, but it is still there. The Noordam and Eurodam/N. Amsterdam have a different Ocean Bar setup the the Zuiderdam/Oosterdam/Westerdam, so perhaps that is part of the differences you saw? on the Zuiderdam/Oosterdam/Westerdam the dance floor is port side and the bar itself on the starboard side,. On the Noordam, Eurodam and N. Amsterdam both the bar and the dance floor are on the starboard side, and port side is seating only. Each ship is a bit different.

 

I can't say whether the change of the Explorers Lounge partially into Lincoln Center Stage is a plus or minus, but it looks lovely decor wise post refit.

 

The one BIG plus I see was the conversion of the wasted space that was the Northern Lights Nightclub into the Gallery Bar - it looks like a lovely space!

 

HAL is trying to keep their ships relevant and profitable, and like most cruise lines will eliminate/modify under used venues to try and create better used spaces that will provide potentially more cashflow - libraries do not generate revenue of any kind, hence why most cruise lines are eliminating or reducing them as ships are refurbished or built. Many cruise lines are also reducing, or changing the mix of live music and entertainments to suit a younger audience (and to save money). The last few cruises I have been on the trivia sessions have been some of the most popular events onboard, regardless of time of day. I'm not a trivia person, but a large number of people seem to have a mania for it. That said I'm not sure the Ocean Bar is the best locale to host it, mostly due to the layout. Trivia sessions do seem to generate bar revenues though and by putting it in a high traffic area around the atrium perhaps the goal here is to encourage more attendees and enhance bar revenue?

 

At the end of the day HAL is adapting and changing. Not everyone will like these changes. HAL need to enhance their onboard revenues (reports have always been they under perform revenue wise compared to Princess and Carnival on a per day, per guest basis) and in many of the markets they compete in they simply cannot command enough cabin fare premium to offset that.

 

Got off the Oosterdam this past Friday. Regardless of what you think you saw on some film, there ain't no dance floor in the Ocean Bar. Also there were very few people behind a cocktail at any time in the Ocean Bar except during the happy hour (4pm to 5pm). At other times the Ocean Bar and the Crows Nest don't appear to be pulling their weight revenue wise. The Gallery Bar is pretty but empty most of the time.

[AtlantaCruiser72]

Got off the Oosterdam this past Friday. Regardless of what you think you saw on some film, there ain't no dance floor in the Ocean Bar. Also there were very few people behind a cocktail at any time in the Ocean Bar except during the happy hour (4pm to 5pm). At other times the Ocean Bar and the Crows Nest don't appear to be pulling their weight revenue wise. The Gallery Bar is pretty but empty most of the time.

 

I stand corrected - I found a very recent picture of the Ocean Bar with seating where the dance floor used to be. It is newer than the video I referenced. The video was immediately after dry dock so perhaps all of the new furnishings had not yet been loaded. I could not tell if the wooden dance floor was still there or if it had been carpeted over. Regardless I was wrong.

 

Late November and early December cruises typically have some of the lowest onboard revenues of the entire year - especially from Florida ports. That is true of all cruise lines. These cruises typically attract bargain hunters who spend less on alcohol, shore excursions, spa treatments, speciality dining, etc. - Nature of the industry.......