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Silversea Water Cooler: Part 3, Welcome!

Host Dan

By Host Dan,
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UKCruiseJeff

UKCruiseJeff

Posted
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M,

 

I think your concerns are perfectly rational, but may I suggest for at least one other important reason I can think of that you hadn't voiced in addition to what you have outlined. I have no idea whether this concern has been voiced in Canada because I haven't heard it voiced in the UK which has perplexed and concerned me for some time.

 

A primary consideration of a pre-clearance arrangement has to be the adherence to local law by the pre-clearing country. You cannot for example have American's working in a pre-clearance role, being granted blanket immunity from Canadian law and so at it's simplest American's working on Canadian territory must not behave in a way to contrary to Canadian law. The US has however passed laws that if followed and imposed at the pre-clearance "border" might clearly break Canadian law, and a law that many Canadians might feel strongly about.

 

The 1951 Refugee Convention carries a set of obligations concerning how refugees and stateless people should be treated and offered safety when arriving at UN Members borders once their status can be confirmed. As I understand it the US intends to deny refugees including children from certain countries entry to the US irrespective of their refugee status. This would (......it seems to me at least ......) to be in breach of the convention which has been ratified by 145 member states. This would be in breach of Canadian law because presumably Canada adheres to it's international obligations and treaties and agreements, as does the UK. I know that Ireland has sought clrification on the US stance because there are pre-clearance arrangements at both Shannon and Dublin Airports.

 

http://www.unhcr.org/uk/3b66c2aa10

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mysty "Live from...." Rare

mysty

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I also wondered what the story was for other countries which currently have pre-clearance. There are 6 countries Dublin and Shannon in Ireland; Aruba; Freeport and Nassau in The Bahamas; Bermuda; Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates; and Calgary, Toronto, Edmonton, Halifax, Montreal, Ottawa, Vancouver, and Winnipeg in Canada. Does Canada pose more of a threat because we have more open immigration laws? And yes, the issue of accepting "legimate" refugees is an issue as well. Your point is well-taken!

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mysty "Live from...." Rare

mysty

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As to your point about obeying the laws of the land in which the Border Agents are stationed, I did raise the issue of "legality" when talks of the ban on travel first surfaced. See post #243. And again, this is not a political comment!

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UKCruiseJeff

UKCruiseJeff

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M,

 

If you wished to do your small bit to undermine this change, have you considered writing to Trudeau asking him to confirm that the US has promised to discharge it's obligations to the 1951 Refugee Convention, or whether the US has been granted some dispensation?

 

Express your concerns that Canada must not connive with the US to defeat their obligations and that you demand a reassurance that Canada's obligations to refugees will continue to be fully discharged within Canadian borders.

 

Perhaps write to a few newspapers and ask them to take up the issue. Sometimes you win the war you want by choosing a different battleground.

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UKCruiseJeff

UKCruiseJeff

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You are a Master Strategist! I'll see what I can come up with.

 

The natural consequence of this, if what I have suggested is taken seriously, is that Canada would want to withdraw from the agreement until the US agrees to comply with the 1951 Refugee Convention, because if Canada didn't withdraw from the pre-clearance agreement, Canada would effectively become an attractive magnet for increasing numbers of refugees declaring on entry to Canada that their intention was not to stay but is to seek sanctuary in the US but that Canada would then when rejected be forced to absorb.

 

Canada already has that obligation, but this would increase the number.

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mysty "Live from...." Rare

mysty

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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/misleading-information-haitian-asylum-seekers-1.4235565

 

This is already happening! From the above link:

 

"Many of the thousands of Haitian nationals streaming across Canada's border from the U.S. may be basing their decision to flee on misleading and false information posted to WhatsApp, Facebook groups and other social media. Encouraged by those ambiguous or deceptive posts, many of the 50,000 to 60,000 Haitians living with temporary protected status (TPS) in the U.S. could be interpreting Canada's welcoming attitude towards immigrants as a clarion call.

In May, President Donald Trump threatened to withdraw the protected status of Haitians who took refuge in the country following the 2010 earthquake. ....."

 

Many are crossing the border illegally. They are being housed at the Olympic Stadium in Montreal.

 

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/montreal-olympic-stadium-aslyum-seekers-protest-new-shelter-1.4237420

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mysty "Live from...." Rare

mysty

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J..you are the Amazing Jeffkin! I think because you have a local mind and can process the ramifications of events and/or decisions, you arrive at predictable results. I have no idea what is going on in the minds of our fearless leader and his Parliament. There may be a damn good reason why the Bill has not been passed in the Senate. Perhaps our leader has the same skill with logic as you do. Here's hoping!

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Solo mi!

Solo mi!

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Mysty:

 

Juxtaposing the Canadian "fearless leader"with the one to the south, (and I am not referring to Pena Nieto)...I'd say, he will get on top of it!!!

I feel so fortunate to be a dual citizen!!

 

Cheers..

Penny

Edited by Solo mi!
forgot a line
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UKCruiseJeff

UKCruiseJeff

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If you do speak to him, tell him we slept in the same bed as his parents after they left the place they rented in Barbados. He was a toddler at the time. We were surpised to see the entry in the visitors book. The house was owned by the Vesteys and was on Paynes Bay. It has since been replaced by houses and flats named after the Vestey property ....Old Trees. We had a fabulous four weeks there.

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mysty "Live from...." Rare

mysty

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That is so cooll J! Pierre Trudeau and his wife Margaret were our Canadian "Royalty". Trudeau Sr. was a bit of a firecracker and not everyone enjoyed that. :) I was a fan however! We're all hoping that Trudeau Jr. has his father's chops!

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UKCruiseJeff

UKCruiseJeff

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He and his wife I recall were popular with the house staff. They were evidently very normal and informal and considerate. I was popular because the cook had no work to do except go off and do my shopping. The place had a real live butler, but he was cluless on how to mix drinks.

 

So every evening I made him dress down and wander down the beach with us and Caribee the enormous guard hound, to Sandy Lane where the barman there had been trained at Playboy Club Park Lane, where I use to take wifey every night for a steak or a curry or whatever, after I had finished at the club in Soho. Meals were all 50p .... she perhaps thought I was rich ...

 

So over four weeks he learned around sixty cocktails or so which was my legacy to Old Trees.

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UKCruiseJeff

UKCruiseJeff

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That is a wonderful memory J! And you seem to have many. Signs of a "good life' I think! Here's hoping you create many more!

 

That's kind. I mentioned that the man involved became my unofficial uncle. We met a few times. One of our clients was Shepperton Film Studios and we use to see him there regularly. Once, they were filming two films at the same time on two adjacent sets. Evita ..... and would you believe 101 dalmations. The problem was that Madonna didn't seem to be too impressed with the volume of spotted dogs around and the constantly yapping dogs seaped through the Evita filming.

 

He also got me favourable treatment at a restaurant wifey and I use to go to .... you might enjoy the story ..

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.co.uk/showpost.php?p=43067512&postcount=1109

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mysty "Live from...." Rare

mysty

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OK......now who's the imp? Another great story! Do you not have a "tell" when the truth might be a little off the mark from what you are saying? Seriously? I'm not a very good liar or "truth stretcher". It's written all over my face.

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UKCruiseJeff

UKCruiseJeff

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In a way I felt it had a grain ..... at a stretch .... of truth. But we had had a two bottle lunch and some of the armagnac ..... so I guess I was a touch gregarious.

 

There is a memorable line in a Clouseau film when Clouseau asks a hotel owner "Does your dog bite?" and receives a "Non" and so he strokes the dog and it bites him ... he says "I thought you said that your dog doesn't bite!" ...... "It's not my dog!" I think we both appreciated and enjoyed the source of my line "It's not my dog" so whenever I saw him after that he would chuckle and tell the Caribee story .....

 

I so miss the old South of France .......

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mysty "Live from...." Rare

mysty

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If I was in my cups I would have trouble stretching any truth. The unadulterated would spring from my lips. Sort a truth serum for me. Not the reverse. The Clouseau reference is priceless. I used to really enjoy Peter Sellers in that role!

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Solo mi!

Solo mi!

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That is so cooll J! Pierre Trudeau and his wife Margaret were our Canadian "Royalty". Trudeau Sr. was a bit of a firecracker and not everyone enjoyed that. :) I was a fan however! We're all hoping that Trudeau Jr. has his father's chops!

 

I had just married and moved to Canada...we were all wrapped up in Trudeau Mania! When we were living in Europe, we went to Germany to put our sons on a military flight to head home for school. Trudeau was on the same flight with his two sons. Who would have thought that one of them would grow up to be PM?

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