mcrcruiser Posted July 16, 2017 #151 Share Posted July 16, 2017 No matter the cost? Somebody always has to pay for Government Bureaucracy. Are you willing to pay for this?? Pay are larger fare? Some seem to think the so called little guy should pay nothing and the Corporations and people who have earned a good wage should sacrifice for those little people (not my words). Sent from my iPhone using Forums Why do you feel that cruise prices would increase if the cruise lines had to protect people on their ships from bad situations ? Shouldn't it be a cost of business just like security on land or in the air ? FWIW cruise prices have increased substantially over the last 2 or 3 years with all these OBC ,drink packages ie ;which when you or I buy a ticket are definitely included in the price of that ticket & more added on in price . Simple logic the higher prices go the lower number of people can afford to cruise . The simple supply /demand . Additionally ,with all these new ships coming into service & costing upward of a billion dollars when will there be a saturation point . Another critical thing is that when in 2007 & 2008 that the US economy almost imploded ,cruise ships sailed at cost in hope of passengers buying at sea to make profits . History will repeat itself & the economy will tank once again . IMO ,we aren't far from that again .like getting into one war with No Korea or Iran or even Russia & with the US debt the economy will take a huge hit . Regardless of cruise line laws being passed , the cruise lines ,at some point in the future will be forced to reduce those lofty prices . or go out of business Today many people are comparing family vacation costs to get the most bang for their dollar & even time share sales are exploding because of crazy high hotel prices & eating out while on vacation . Money or Kiplinger (I read both ) magazines had recent article of family of 4 going to Disney world to visit 4 parks . Hotel ,airfares ,meals park entry fees , souvenirs the prices ranged for a 4 day vacation from a budget trip of about $3500 to a deluxe trip of about $9500 . Now just how many middle class people can continue to pay those lofty prices ,save for college educations & their future retirement ? In summary cruise lines are feasting on a wealth effect in this country & regardless of whether the US Congress passes a law to further protect all of us at sea the cruise lines just raise their prices as they want with out any caps until the hammer of a bad economy once again sets upon their shoulders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WpgCruise Posted July 16, 2017 #152 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Regardless of cruise line laws being passed , the cruise lines ,at some point in the future will be forced to reduce those lofty prices . or go out of business The problem with this argument is that the ships, unlike a hotel are mobile. If the market in North America falters, the ships are relocated to Europe, Asia, Oz or wherever they generate higher profits. Turning to the point of regulation, the same principle applies. Example, Brits got fed up with having to pass through U.S. Immigration on Caribbean sailings from the U.S. P&O now home ports ships in Barbados in the winter. Direct charter flights from G.B. land in Barbados, people are bussed from the tarmac to the ship. They do a cruise and when they disembark are bussed back to the plane. No U.S. ports are called on, no Immigration lineups, no hassle. An excellent example of how the Market adapts to excess regulation. If you think this is a "One Off" take a look at the ships home ported in Jamaica, Mexico and other non U.S. ports to accommodate Caribbean sailings in the winter. Even sailings to Cuba are happening from non U.S. pots just to avoid over regulation. Over regulation of any Market or Product has consequences. Be those consequences higher prices, fewer competitors, or the providers leaving the Market. Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcrcruiser Posted July 16, 2017 #153 Share Posted July 16, 2017 The problem with this argument is that the ships, unlike a hotel are mobile. If the market in North America falters, the ships are relocated to Europe, Asia, Oz or wherever they generate higher profits. Turning to the point of regulation, the same principle applies. Example, Brits got fed up with having to pass through U.S. Immigration on Caribbean sailings from the U.S. P&O now home ports ships in Barbados in the winter. Direct charter flights from G.B. land in Barbados, people are bussed from the tarmac to the ship. They do a cruise and when they disembark are bussed back to the plane. No U.S. ports are called on, no Immigration lineups, no hassle. An excellent example of how the Market adapts to excess regulation. If you think this is a "One Off" take a look at the ships home ported in Jamaica, Mexico and other non U.S. ports to accommodate Caribbean sailings in the winter. Even sailings to Cuba are happening from non U.S. pots just to avoid over regulation. Over regulation of any Market or Product has consequences. Be those consequences higher prices, fewer competitors, or the providers leaving the Market. Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it. Think of taking out the American Economy entirely & how will the rest of the world fair ? Yea cruise ships are mobile ;but ,if the US tanks economically what impact does that have on world economies . Let us just use a small example . A War breaks out in Korea (there is no denying it is extremely close at hand ) .South Korea is devastated & not only millions killed in conventional war far ;but parts can't ship & South korea is the 9th largest US trading partner . Now what impact will be on plants around the world that can no longer get Korean parts because of all out devastating war . Can those plants survive & if so how long would it take to build like plants to supply parts . what do those plants do in the meantime & how do those employees fair ? There is talk about a black swan already in the high flying financial markets . Markets that go up like this stock market can not & will not last for ever . Here is a history lesson . The 1929 stock market crash happened when the US population was 126 ,000,000 & today the market value dwarfs that 1939 market & todays US population is 326000000 . But the real problem is the break even from that 1020 market crash . It took to 1953 unadjusted for inflation & it took to the 89s to break even adjusted for inflation Now with that said where do you think the cruise lines will ne successful after a a huge let down in the American economy ,terror in Europe - London ,Paris to mention just a couple plus the mid east plus the military advances into the Ukrane by Russian troops ie . The world indeed is more dangerous today than any past time in history ;because of the weapons of mass destruction . So where do those cruise ships go to load up passengers in economies that have the money & desire to cruise ? Very wealthy people don't go on mass market cruise ships rather they sail on their own yachts & fly in their own jets .Thus ,I simply can't see the validity in your argument about how cruise ships will survive Yes again laws passed by our congress to protect American citizens can be helpful for all our protections whether at sea in the air or on land . FWIW we ourselves are NOT the enemy within ;although one must wonder these trying days , The real enemies are North korea ,Russia ,Iran , ISIS & all terror ideologies & finally China . This statement was given to congress by our military 4 star Marine General Cruising is a luxury & not a necessity , BTW I am a proud prep e .:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare xpcdoojk Posted July 16, 2017 #154 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Just hope he lasts longer than last time. So, he is probably already in my club and I am just to infrequent here to recognize that???:halo: JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare xpcdoojk Posted July 16, 2017 #155 Share Posted July 16, 2017 The problem with this argument is that the ships, unlike a hotel are mobile. If the market in North America falters, the ships are relocated to Europe, Asia, Oz or wherever they generate higher profits. Turning to the point of regulation, the same principle applies. Example, Brits got fed up with having to pass through U.S. Immigration on Caribbean sailings from the U.S. P&O now home ports ships in Barbados in the winter. Direct charter flights from G.B. land in Barbados, people are bussed from the tarmac to the ship. They do a cruise and when they disembark are bussed back to the plane. No U.S. ports are called on, no Immigration lineups, no hassle. An excellent example of how the Market adapts to excess regulation. If you think this is a "One Off" take a look at the ships home ported in Jamaica, Mexico and other non U.S. ports to accommodate Caribbean sailings in the winter. Even sailings to Cuba are happening from non U.S. pots just to avoid over regulation. Over regulation of any Market or Product has consequences. Be those consequences higher prices, fewer competitors, or the providers leaving the Market. Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it. Trust me economics and unintended consequences never occur to these people. They think everything is static. Do this and that is the result. Except when you do this other people do that and viola... what you in your best doogoooder plans goes to crap.... Happens all the time. Especially when senators from NE states pass laws. JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chengkp75 Posted July 16, 2017 #156 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Here is a surge protection power strip on our fridge of Rhapsody this spring. Any thoughts? Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Forums mobile app I don't see any indication in the photo that this is surge protected. It has an on/off switch/circuit breaker, but that is all I see. Did you pull it out to read the specs on it, and did it mention "joules of protection" or "clamping voltage"? That looks amazingly like the European 220v power strips we use extensively on the ships I work on, manufactured by WonPro, and they are not surge protected. These European power strips are better suited for shipboard use, as the switch/circuit breaker will open both legs of the power circuit, not just one like US power strips will do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bUU Posted July 16, 2017 #157 Share Posted July 16, 2017 There has got to be laws enforceable to protect every cruise line passenger from negligence & crew members that commit criminal acts against cruise passengers . I agree with all laws that put teeth to protect all of us whether on land or at sea or in the air . And to be clear, new laws aren't needed: Rather old laws that cruise lines hide behind when they commit offenses need to be done away with. Corporations and other large enterprises have abused excessive financial power forever to get laws passed that give them unfair advantages over us consumers. Those laws need to go, and buyer and seller need to be put back onto an even footing with absolutely no advantage in a commercial transaction given to the party who can afford better lawyers. However that isn't going to happen as long as wealth had a bevy of apologists for their unfair advantages. This message may have been entered using voice recognition. Please excuse any typos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulxyz2004 Posted July 16, 2017 #158 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Love the Margaret Thatcher quote: the problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples money. Love it as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ocean Boy Posted July 16, 2017 #159 Share Posted July 16, 2017 (edited) I was bored and looked it up. According to Wikipedia, an American life is quite a bit more expensive than others -about $10 million. Aussies and Kiwi are about $4M. Based on polls, Russians are worth less than $100K - the land of no regulations. No wonder the U.S. government is attempting to reach into every aspect of our lives right down to the size of the soda you can drink as it seems that we are quite valuable, relatively speaking, as far as lives go. We must be protected by the very people who mostly live above the laws that are imposed on us. Edited July 16, 2017 by Ocean Boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare John&LaLa Posted July 16, 2017 #160 Share Posted July 16, 2017 I don't see any indication in the photo that this is surge protected. It has an on/off switch/circuit breaker, but that is all I see. Did you pull it out to read the specs on it, and did it mention "joules of protection" or "clamping voltage"? That looks amazingly like the European 220v power strips we use extensively on the ships I work on, manufactured by WonPro, and they are not surge protected. These European power strips are better suited for shipboard use, as the switch/circuit breaker will open both legs of the power circuit, not just one like US power strips will do.Thanks for the explanation.Wasn't that interested to pull it out. It just caught my eye. And yes, it was 220. I also saw a 110V one being used by the bingo crew to power their AV equipment, it also had a red on/off switch. Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Forums mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nealstuber Posted July 16, 2017 #161 Share Posted July 16, 2017 (edited) Wow, we agree. :eek: But in your view, trial attornies don't get rich. JC Not sure this link will hold up but it shows crime stats for cruise ships vs various size cities. The rates for small towns vs cruise ship are 10-15 times higher. https://www.cruising.org/docs/default-source/research/jaf-cruise-crime-report---aug-20-2015-(2).pdf?sfvrsn=0 As to the specific case with the surge protector, wouldn't it make sense to ask small towns to restrict use of surge protectors and the number of devices used? I wonder if the congressmen sponsoring this legislation have checked under the desks of their staff or even have the slightest clue what's under there! To say nothing of campaign offices which are often set-up add hoc. It would be a real treat to see these congressmen live by the rules they propose. Sent from my iPhone using Forums Edited July 16, 2017 by nealstuber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
time4u2go Posted July 16, 2017 #162 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Not sure this link will hold up but it shows crime stats for cruise ships vs various size cities. The rates for small towns vs cruise ship are 10-15 times higher. https://www.cruising.org/docs/default-source/research/jaf-cruise-crime-report---aug-20-2015-(2).pdf?sfvrsn=0 As to the specific case with the surge protector, wouldn't it make sense to ask small towns to restrict use of surge protectors and the number of devices used? I wonder if the congressmen sponsoring this legislation have checked under the desks of their staff or even have the slightest clue what's under there! To say nothing of campaign offices which are often set-up add hoc. It would be a real treat to see these congressmen live by the rules they propose. Sent from my iPhone using Forums Surge protectors do not pose the same problems with a land-based power system that they do with a ship's power system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruzaholic41 Posted July 16, 2017 #163 Share Posted July 16, 2017 And to be clear, new laws aren't needed: Rather old laws that cruise lines hide behind when they commit offenses need to be done away with. Such as what? What laws are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nealstuber Posted July 16, 2017 #164 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Surge protectors do not pose the same problems with a land-based power system that they do with a ship's power system. True, but I'd be willing to wager that electrical fires are more common in small towns then on cruise ships. Sent from my iPhone using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bUU Posted July 16, 2017 #165 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Such as what? What laws are you talking about? As I mentioned earlier, the Death on the High Seas Act. This message may have been entered using voice recognition. Please excuse any typos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruzaholic41 Posted July 16, 2017 #166 Share Posted July 16, 2017 As I mentioned earlier, the Death on the High Seas Act. The DOHS holds cruise lines liable when they are negligent. How exactly do the cruise lines hide behind the DOHS and why does it need to be repealed? You're not being very clear in your responses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bUU Posted July 16, 2017 #167 Share Posted July 16, 2017 DOHSA limits the scope of the damages that can be claimed to "actual monetary loss" (no pain and suffering; no loss of companionship). Remove the limitations: Make it exactly the same as if the negligence happened on the Mississippi River and I'll be satisfied. This message may have been entered using voice recognition. Please excuse any typos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruzaholic41 Posted July 16, 2017 #168 Share Posted July 16, 2017 The DOHSA statute says "fair compensation," not "actual monetary loss." Huge difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bUU Posted July 16, 2017 #169 Share Posted July 16, 2017 I'm guessing that you're not going to believe anything that contradicts your assumptions coming from me. Research it yourself. Here's a place to start: http://www.mahonefirm.com/death-on-the-high-seas-act-dohsa/ This message may have been entered via voice recognition. Please excuse any typos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milwaukee Eight Posted July 16, 2017 #170 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Just hope he lasts longer than last time. I'm sure just a conspiracy theory and FAKENEWS. [emoji23] Sent from my iPhone using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milwaukee Eight Posted July 16, 2017 #171 Share Posted July 16, 2017 I'm guessing that you're not going to believe anything that contradicts your assumptions coming from me. Research it yourself. Here's a place to start: http://www.mahonefirm.com/death-on-the-high-seas-act-dohsa/ This message may have been entered via voice recognition. Please excuse any typos. Isn't this link exactly from those wishing to chase ambulances and make money from libel claims. You talk about the little guy, but I don't think these people are the little guy, BUT THE PROBLEM. And you trust them because??? Sent from my iPhone using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare John&LaLa Posted July 16, 2017 #172 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Someone on another thread got hit by a door. Check it out Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Forums mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ocean Dancer Posted July 16, 2017 #173 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Someone on another thread got hit by a door. Check it out Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Forums mobile app Yeah, and he turned down medical help as he did not want to pay for it..........now he's all bruised and achey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milwaukee Eight Posted July 16, 2017 #174 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Yeah, and he turned down medical help as he did not want to pay for it..........now he's all bruised and achey. Of course, the new thing, we want everyone else to pay. The "little guy" has no desire to be the big guy, they just want big Government to take care of them. Sent from my iPhone using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milwaukee Eight Posted July 16, 2017 #175 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Someone on another thread got hit by a door. Check it out Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Forums mobile app I missed it. Better go find it. Sent from my iPhone using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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