Adonia is going

[grapau27]

I sincerely hope not. We have 6 cruises booked on Aurora over the next 18 months as she is our new found favourite (we prefer the facilities on Britannia but the overall cruise experience on Aurora suits us better). We need an accessible balcony cabin. There are none on Oriana, we don't like them on Arcadia and Oceana doesn't do that many round trips from Southampton. As we aren't terribly keen on Azura and Ventura our choices are narrowing! We never managed to cruise on Adonia. We did a ship visit (and loved her) and were offered the half price cruises during her first season back with P&O but couldn't do any of them. Very sad to see her go, but the loss of Aurora would be a major problem for us. Personally, I can't see that happening any time soon. If I was a betting man, Oriana may go once the new 2020 ship is launched and, hopefully, if that happens, Aurora will become adult only.

We loved the water wall feature and Anderson's and she was our favourite P&O ship when we went on as a family of 6 in 2003 and 2004.We have been on all but the current Adonia since but still think Aurora was the best.

Maybe only Adonia is going because of her small size.

 

UK D+ member.

[SteveH2508]

<snip>

Maybe only Adonia is going because of her small size.

 

UK D+ member.

 

I reckon that Azamara have had their feelers out for an R class ship for some time. They wanted an R class ship to go with the other two they already have. Their focus is very much on the destination rather than the ship, so having two or three ships which are essentially identical, fits with that ethos.

 

I do feel sorry for those passengers who have been shafted by P&O, but I also am pleased that Azamara will be able to offer more choice - their cruising experience is wonderful.

[grapau27]

I reckon that Azamara have had their feelers out for an R class ship for some time. They wanted an R class ship to go with the other two they already have. Their focus is very much on the destination rather than the ship, so having two or three ships which are essentially identical, fits with that ethos.

 

I do feel sorry for those passengers who have been shafted by P&O, but I also am pleased that Azamara will be able to offer more choice - their cruising experience is wonderful.

I think you have nailed it.

 

UK D+ member.

[Scorpio41]

True.I think it is just as well they sent out the new brochure otherwise we might not have known and more people would have booked online oblivious to their cruise not being honoured.

 

UK D+ member.

 

True, the previous brochure up to March 19 shows the 38 cruises people have booked that have been cancelled, Including my Birthday cruise :(

 

Their uncaring attitude is shown by announcing it on Facebook before contacting passengers and travel agents.

[joro44]

:rolleyes:What are the 'customer protection safeguards' for those who having forward booked cruises with P&O for the Adonia, now find that their cruise(s) have been cancelled due to the sale of the ship to an RCI subsidiary line.

The current chaos with the Ryanair cancellations has been brought to the attention of the appropriate regulators. Who are the regulators for the growing GBR cruise industry.

Can WHICH? investigate I wonder, or does it need MP's to raise questions in the House, or even a class action for compensation?

[BandBlady]

Since our cruise has been cancelled I have been searching for a replacement .The nearest I can find is with Fred Olsen so here is the comparison .Fred is £700.00 pp dearer for a balcony ,no OBC ,no 10%loyalty discount and no carnival shareholder benefit ,its only 14nights P&O was 16nights .

I wonder how Azamara can fill another ship successfully and P&O cannot seemingly fill one .

I hope everyone finds something suitable ,keep smiling

[Teddy123]

Clauses 40 onwards of the booking conditions make it clear P&O can cancel cruises "where this reasonably becomes necessary on operational, commercial or other grounds" and all they need to do is offer an alternative or money back plus - if the cancellation is within 90 days of planned sailing - compensation in the form of credit to be used towards another booking. Since everybody signs up to this, I don't see there is a legal case to be made.

[joro44]

Compare with the Ryanair cancellations, regulators are investigating, consumer protection rights are being mentioned, Which? is asking questions etc.

Who are the regulators for GBR cruise lines that protect their cancelled pre-bookers?

48 cruises 20 ships

[grapau27]

True, the previous brochure up to March 19 shows the 38 cruises people have booked that have been cancelled, Including my Birthday cruise :(

 

Their uncaring attitude is shown by announcing it on Facebook before contacting passengers and travel agents.

It was badly done,a bit like employers telling people they have lost their job by text.

 

UK D+ member.

[bassbandit]

Hi,

My wife and I were booked to go to Svalbard with the Adonia on 19th June 2018. Just found out yesterday by chance on the net that she is being sold in March 2018 and our cruise will be cancelled. £100 future cruise credit will be given apparently.

We found that the Oriana is sailing virtually the same cruise in June / July 2019 and asked that we be transferred to that cruise whilst maintaining the benefits given for the Adonia, ie £630 O.B.C. and free parking at Southampton. The Oriana cruise is more expensive but felt that this would be a fair deal in the circumstances. P & O felt they were unable to do this.

We suspect several people have tried to do the same thing as today the Oriana cruise balcony price has increased dramatically.

Not only do they not treat customers in a way that encourages future bookings but they also try to make money out of their customers misfortune.

After 6 cruises with them we think it is time to go elsewhere, plenty more ships on the oceans with a more modern approach and better value.

[Toftwood]

Since our cruise has been cancelled I have been searching for a replacement .The nearest I can find is with Fred Olsen so here is the comparison .Fred is £700.00 pp dearer for a balcony ,no OBC ,no 10%loyalty discount and no carnival shareholder benefit ,its only 14nights P&O was 16nights .

 

I wonder how Azamara can fill another ship successfully and P&O cannot seemingly fill one .

 

I hope everyone finds something suitable ,keep smiling

 

 

 

I think Azamara will easily fill it. They position themselves well above pando and provide the product to justify their rating and more importantly the price. The current owners could never get away with the fare they would need to charge to make it viable for them. No cruise line can exist across too many different ratings. Most pando ships sit comfortably in 4 or maybe 4.5 star with the lonely Britannia at 5 star. To make Adonia pay its way they would need to elevate it to 5.5 star (with all the costs that would involve) and apart from not wanting that investment commitment, they would end up with a disparate fleet

[NSWP]

Hi,

My wife and I were booked to go to Svalbard with the Adonia on 19th June 2018. Just found out yesterday by chance on the net that she is being sold in March 2018 and our cruise will be cancelled. £100 future cruise credit will be given apparently.

We found that the Oriana is sailing virtually the same cruise in June / July 2019 and asked that we be transferred to that cruise whilst maintaining the benefits given for the Adonia, ie £630 O.B.C. and free parking at Southampton. The Oriana cruise is more expensive but felt that this would be a fair deal in the circumstances. P & O felt they were unable to do this.

We suspect several people have tried to do the same thing as today the Oriana cruise balcony price has increased dramatically.

Not only do they not treat customers in a way that encourages future bookings but they also try to make money out of their customers misfortune.

After 6 cruises with them we think it is time to go elsewhere, plenty more ships on the oceans with a more modern approach and better value.

 

Commiserations were on same cruise D813 and one before on 3 June, D812. Agents here still have heard nothing. I have done bookings now with Princess.

 

 

This has been handled very poorly.

[gadabout60]

Our agents have had a generic letter - nothing personal re us and nothing about rushing to give us back our deposit

Have seen on fb many instances of disappointed passengers seeing the price of replacement cruises go up overnight

We hVe booked something with Fred Olsen to try that. Good job I had enough to pay for the deposit as P&O are still holding on to my money

I see no reason to book with them again. I am sure that will not worry them as many unhappy passengers are still rebooking with them

[NSWP]

Our agents have had a generic letter - nothing personal re us and nothing about rushing to give us back our deposit

Have seen on fb many instances of disappointed passengers seeing the price of replacement cruises go up overnight

We hVe booked something with Fred Olsen to try that. Good job I had enough to pay for the deposit as P&O are still holding on to my money

I see no reason to book with them again. I am sure that will not worry them as many unhappy passengers are still rebooking with them

 

Thanks for that update, we are down AU$2000 in deposits for Adonia D812/D813 we booked. From previous experience with cruises cancelled by the Line, e.g. Costa some years ago, took 3 months for our refund of deposit. Costa is Carnival too, so a wait for refund perhaps? :evilsmile: Enjoy Fred Olsen, we have fitted in 3 Princess Cruises to replace Adonia, still cranky though, was looking forward to those.:loudcry:

 

After 5 P&O UK cruises, long ones at that, our P&O experience is over.

[Earnie]

One thing that does not seem to be getting mentioned by anyone are the future cruise deposits that were also paid and the agreement that additional OBS would be provided. On seeking to find a replacement for a lost Carribean cruise with significant OBS the system only generated the £200 reduction for the cancellation and no OBS whatsoever! I am also concerned that our agents had no knowledge of how this was being dealt with but also their statement that if we were not going to book a replacement cruise we could cancel our original booking. How can we cancel something that no longer exists so really curious now as to what 'admin' fees will suddenly start appearing if we don't book another P&O cruise which on reflection I don't think we will.

[Eglesbrech]

Clauses 40 onwards of the booking conditions make it clear P&O can cancel cruises "where this reasonably becomes necessary on operational, commercial or other grounds" and all they need to do is offer an alternative or money back plus - if the cancellation is within 90 days of planned sailing - compensation in the form of credit to be used towards another booking. Since everybody signs up to this, I don't see there is a legal case to be made.

 

I agree that there is probably not a case worth pursuing in this instance however just because a company add a clause in a contract does not always mean it passes the test of being fair and balanced. The customer is not able to negotiate the contract when they book a cruise so the contract is what P&O make it.

There is an increasing push by government around unfair terms in contracts so just because you sign a contract does not make it watertight and binding, the contract actually has to be fair to be legally binding.

"A standard term is unfair if it creates a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer, contrary to the requirement of good faith."

So P&O cancel your cruise over 90 days ahead and they pay nothing, (not even any consequential losses eg flights or hotels which have been booked). If a passenger cancels, even 5 minutes after making the booking they always lose something either a deposit or the full price depending on the type of booking.

Significant imbalance?

[joro44]

:rolleyes:Does this suggest that one should approach ABTA, particularly if the booking was made through a travel agent? Are bookings made direct with P&O also covered?

There are several law firms who pursue cases relating to consumer travel problems. In some instances resulting in booking conditions having to be amended.

It would be instructive to see the booking conditions for Carnival sales in USA.

[Teddy123]

Some time ago, P&O changed the itinerary of a cruise I was booked on. I thought it a significant change and cancelled. P&O refused to give me my deposit back claiming it was not a significant change. I told them why I thought it was and that I would go the County Court ("small claims") with that evidence if necessary. They then returned my deposit. However, that hinged on what was "significant". I think the situation here is more clear-cut and P&O are acting entirely in accordance with the agreed conditions - except perhaps for whether selling the ship was "reasonable". It may be that the terms in question are unfair, but I would guess they are Carnival ones and Carnival would fight tooth and nail to defend them.

[Calpespain]

Seeking advice. P&O have sold Adonia which will be goneto Azamara from March 2018. We have booked a back to back Christmas and NewYear on Azura & Adonia. P&O cancel our cruise and yet refuse to give usal of our deposits back as they P&O booked each cruise separately ondifferent booking references, although we were given a discount for booking aback to back albeit on two different ships. P&O say, you have two separate bookings,I say, yes but I booked them at the same time you at P&O accepted the bookingas a back to back, so I should be entitled to all of my deposits back absolutely. What’s your opinions?

[Teddy123]

Seeking advice. P&O have sold Adonia which will be goneto Azamara from March 2018. We have booked a back to back Christmas and NewYear on Azura & Adonia. P&O cancel our cruise and yet refuse to give usal of our deposits back as they P&O booked each cruise separately ondifferent booking references, although we were given a discount for booking aback to back albeit on two different ships. P&O say, you have two separate bookings,I say, yes but I booked them at the same time you at P&O accepted the bookingas a back to back, so I should be entitled to all of my deposits back absolutely. What’s your opinions?

Morally, possibly. Legally, no.

[jake 26]

I agree that there is probably not a case worth pursuing in this instance however just because a company add a clause in a contract does not always mean it passes the test of being fair and balanced. The customer is not able to negotiate the contract when they book a cruise so the contract is what P&O make it.

There is an increasing push by government around unfair terms in contracts so just because you sign a contract does not make it watertight and binding, the contract actually has to be fair to be legally binding.

"A standard term is unfair if it creates a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer, contrary to the requirement of good faith."

So P&O cancel your cruise over 90 days ahead and they pay nothing, (not even any consequential losses eg flights or hotels which have been booked). If a passenger cancels, even 5 minutes after making the booking they always lose something either a deposit or the full price depending on the type of booking.

Significant imbalance?

I agree with you.

The Consumer Rights Act 2015 deals quite clearly with such unfair terms and conditions, and stipulates quite firmly that such T&Cs must be balanced for both parties.

Last year I cancelled a P&O cruise well in advance of 90 days, and fought the company for return of my (£1500) deposit less their costs, on the basis of the above Act. I took it to the point of issuing a formal letter of intent of court action before they capitulated and returned the deposit in full.

However in this case I don't think you can argue that you have unfairly suffered a financial loss if the deposit is returned in full, and they have abided by their T&Cs.

Those who, in good faith, have incurred additional costs, and proof of such, have a case for claiming those back from P&O, and would be well advised to do so.

The whole situation has been very badly managed by P&O, regardless of any corporational secrecy from Carnival. Individual letters should've been sent out prior to the official announcement, and a contact centre set up to deal with queries and replacement bookings.

The lack of customer care could be costly for them.

[jake 26]

Seeking advice. P&O have sold Adonia which will be goneto Azamara from March 2018. We have booked a back to back Christmas and NewYear on Azura & Adonia. P&O cancel our cruise and yet refuse to give usal of our deposits back as they P&O booked each cruise separately ondifferent booking references, although we were given a discount for booking aback to back albeit on two different ships. P&O say, you have two separate bookings,I say, yes but I booked them at the same time you at P&O accepted the bookingas a back to back, so I should be entitled to all of my deposits back absolutely. What’s your opinions?

That situation is quite unfortunate, but as they issued 2 booking references then presumably they took 2 deposits, albeit simultaneously.

Each cruise has it's own unique reference (even world cruises have separate reference numbers for individual sectors) so they can't combine a back to back into one cruise reference and they treat each cruise as a separate booking.

Presumably they gave you 10% discount on the combined cost, which I assume you retain on the remaining cruise.

Your only argument is that you have been disadvantaged by their action, and would not have booked the remaining cruise if the Adonia one was not available, and their action of selling the ship was not something you could have foreseen. You acted in good faith and believe that P&O should act similarly, and enable you to cancel in full as you purchased both cruises on the understanding they would run consecutively.

[grapau27]

I agree with you.

The Consumer Rights Act 2015 deals quite clearly with such unfair terms and conditions, and stipulates quite firmly that such T&Cs must be balanced for both parties.

Last year I cancelled a P&O cruise well in advance of 90 days, and fought the company for return of my (£1500) deposit less their costs, on the basis of the above Act. I took it to the point of issuing a formal letter of intent of court action before they capitulated and returned the deposit in full.

However in this case I don't think you can argue that you have unfairly suffered a financial loss if the deposit is returned in full, and they have abided by their T&Cs.

Those who, in good faith, have incurred additional costs, and proof of such, have a case for claiming those back from P&O, and would be well advised to do so.

The whole situation has been very badly managed by P&O, regardless of any corporational secrecy from Carnival. Individual letters should've been sent out prior to the official announcement, and a contact centre set up to deal with queries and replacement bookings.

The lack of customer care could be costly for them.

Great information.

P&O have handled this badly and i hope they don't live to regret it.

They should eat humble pie and really ​ compensate anyone affected.

 

D+

[Teddy123]

Those who, in good faith, have incurred additional costs, and proof of such, have a case for claiming those back from P&O, and would be well advised to do so.

Again, the T&Cs everybody signs up to are relevant: "No consequential costs or expenses or loss of profits will be payable." (clause 42). This clause too may be unfair, but the starting position is that passengers have agreed to it.

 

Of course, I agree that while P&O's position may be defensible legally, their actions will have upset some customers (although a relatively small number, I suspect, which may be part of their calculations) and it would be good if they made recompense in some way.

[joro44]

Like many large organisations P&O are acting in a bullying manner expecting most of their 'guests' not to react practically, just emotionally.

Their slogan:

"EXCEEDING YOUR EXPECTATIONS"

 

IT SEEMS SO!

 

Carnival Inc & Plc is one of the very few dual listed companies on both New York AND London stock exchanges, so cannot blame Miami, must answer to GBR regulators and Acts.