Child falls 2 stories in ship at port

[Herfnerd]

I couldn't even imagine putting a harness on an 8 year old. Unless the 8 year old had some type of intellectual disability or a severe behavior problem that caused him/her to have decreased awareness of danger. At what age do you stop?? Put a harness on a 10 year old, a 12 year old? When they get married lol?? There is no magic age of safety. Ludicrous. It's a parents job to teach their kids about danger and to also supervise their kids because kids will be kids. But accidents are going to happen sadly. A perfectly wonderful parent might get distracted and the unthinkable occurs.That doesn't mean we should infantilize kids and treat them like toddlers until middle school. By the age of 10 I let myself into an empty house after school took care of the dog, and started making dinner.

 

 

 

I agree - a leash on an 8-year-old? Think about it - that’s a third grader, not a toddler. If there is a disability, that’s a different story.

 

An unfortunate incident and my heart goes out to the family but as a parent, you realistically change that safety bubble at certain stages of their life......

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

[TNcruising02]

This is a horrible thing to happen and my biggest fear of kids on a cruise ship. The railings seem to be a good height though. I remember being on a Carnival ship when my husband and I sat at a small table and chair set the overlooked the atrium. I could see how a child might stand on one of the chairs and accidentally fall. I think it's less likely that she hoisted herself up, but that could happen too.

 

I highly doubt it had anything to do with people coming out of the elevator because the elevators don't open toward any railings. It's possible she was standing on one of the chairs and maybe somebody accidentally bumped into her. Hopefully, what actually happened will be reported. It might help prevent a similar accident.

 

Definitely small children need to be supervised constantly while they are near ledges and railings. I remember when something like this happened at an Embassy Suites.

[42CruiseCrazy]

No it doesn't take a village to raise a child, it takes a mother and father to raise a child. I would never render my child over to a village to take care of my child.

 

I actually like this saying. All it means is if an adult sees a kid doing something stupid and the parents don't (or are clueless) they should speak up. I'd much rather be yelled at by a parent having an issue with me not "minding my own business" than watch a young life come to a tragic end. If you see something say something.

 

 

 

I agree with you 100%! A parent can’t see everything all of the time (especially if there’s more than one child to keep an eye on). I would never be cross at any other adult who intervened and kept my child from getting hurt. I would be very, very grateful.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[luv2trvlnow]

 

I highly doubt it had anything to do with people coming out of the elevator because the elevators don't open toward any railings. It's possible she was standing on one of the chairs and maybe somebody accidentally bumped into her. Hopefully, what actually happened will be reported. It might help prevent a similar accident.

 

I also have a hard time believing it had anything to do with people coming out of the elevator. Not only do they not open towards any railings the elevator lobby is around the corner a ways. It would take a large number of people to overflow to the railing area. And I don't see a large number people getting off the elevator on one on those decks on the last morning. Most people are going down to Deck 3 to disembark. That is where you usually see people pushing into a crowd of people in the elevator lobby when getting off the elevator, but not on Deck 4, 5 or higher.

[mjrich73]

Apparently different caliber of people. The folks at Disney asked for privacy, not an attorney and JUSTICE. There can be no justice in this case. Justice would bring the child back. It can't happen.

 

What do you know about the "caliber" of this family? Instead of wasting time on speculation and judging...how about spreading some love, prayers & compassion for a family that is grieving the loss of a precious child.

Edited October 17, 2017 by mjrich73

[lilrere]

Just another thought on what could have happened. Maybe the people did not push her over the railing when getting off the elevator rather she was “pushed” off the elevator and got seperated from her family and then was looking over the railing to see if she could see them getting off on another floor. Sometimes when people are entering or exiting you move out of the way and maybe she stepped out and was not able to get back on the elevator with her family. Just another possibility.

[elliair]

Exactly, and I've done so before to 2 little boys in the balcony next door. Standing on chairs, leaning over the railing and neither mom nor dad out there. Without thinking clearly, I yelled over to get down off the chairs before I get their mom. I've never been so scared. I hope they think of the mean lady who yelled at them if they ever try and do it again.

 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Forums mobile app

 

Good for you, I'm so glad to see another adult tell 2 children whose parents aren't around to stop doing something that may get them killed. Some of them will get down and take off to get near their parents. I can't imagine seeing a child go overboard due to parents not knowing what their children are doing. I confronted two boys one time who were feeding sea gulls bread doused in Tabasco sauce. I asked the waiter to tell them to stop and he did nothing. They also threw the saucer overboard. I confronted them with my cell phone in hand and told them I had them on camera and I was calling security. They took off and I never saw them again the whole cruise.:halo:

[Kittybork]

What do you know about the "caliber" of this family? Instead of wasting time on speculation and judging...how about spreading some love, prayers & compassion for a family that is grieving the loss of a precious child.

 

Did you notice the word "apparently"?

[Cyberburn]

I was on a Celebrity Cruise and there was one large group with very active children who were unsupervised nearly the entire trip.

I ended up on an excursion with them and I nearly had a panic attack. It was a tour of the Panama Canal and the adults in the group sat on the top deck of the ferry. The children were climbing and hanging over the railings, and climbed up the outside of the metal staircase to the upper deck. There was free bottle water on the trip and they started dumping bottles out into the canal and then throw the empty bottles in. I counted over a dozen bottles and other garbage thrown in. They threw down one full bottle and it hit someone on the head. Another fell and hit me in the leg.

There was an issue with docking, so we had to tender to the ship. The children were sticking their heads out of the railings, and one nearly got his head crushed between the boats. I couldn't help myself at this point and I screamed in terror. One adult noticed at this point that their children might get hurt so they came down and stared at them. Luckily no children were injured. Some of the cruise ship crew started yelling about the children.

Anyways, when we got on the ship, the group/family/parents seemed a little shocked and offended when they got yelled at by a few passengers.

Reports were turned in, and they lost the right to go on excursions and the children were mostly supervised after that. I think they were threatened with being kicked off the ship.

I saw children from that same group sitting on the railings over the atriums at the very beginning of the cruise. I think cruises need to get more strict about behavior guidelines and what can cause your group to be removed, and banned for life even.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kittybork]

I. I think cruises need to get more strict about behavior guidelines and what can cause your group to be removed, and banned for life even.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Not a bad idea!

[Garavar]

Once the police investigation is complete the information will be shared with the family. There's absolutely no need for them to hire an attorney except to sue. If they 'pursue legal action' it's only because they can find a shady lawyer who knows carnival will probably pay them out rather than deal with the cost and bad publicity of a trial. Whoever said that about 'finding answers' and pursuing legal action wasn't the mom; think it was an uncle or something. Chances are good that the mom is already being informed as the investigation continues. The news was just looking for a sound bite from from a 'family member'.

 

Unfortunately suing is the first place anyone goes anymore when something bad happens, even if the company or person named in the suit did absolutely nothing wrong. I guarantee you there will be a class action lawsuit against Mandalay Bay for insufficient security. Even though prior to october, no one would have accused them of security issues. Once something happens everyone wants to Monday morning quarterback and say it should have been foreseeable and prevented.

 

We had that in cincinnati not too long ago when harambe was killed. The zoo's gorilla exhibit has been around 100 years; there's a wood and netted fence and a 50 ft cliff separating the gorillas from the visitors. No one in their right mind would imagine a child getting in there. Till it happened and suddenly it's the zoo's fault that the fence wasn't secure enough.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

I have been reading this thread and holding my tongue (thumbs) but I cant anymore.

 

I am an injury lawyer. I do cruise law and I have sued Carnival, Royal/Celebrity and Norwegian a few times. They are not easy to work with and time is not on your side. Based on your cruise contract you only have 1 year to bring a claim.

 

The family needs a lawyer, the police don't move quick enough sometimes, relay incorrect information and such.

 

As an example I have a client who died in a motorcycle accident where a food Delivery guy cut in front of him. The police still haven't received the homicide report and its been 10 months. If this were a cruise case I would only have 2 months left.

Don't forget also, the cruise line is insured for this very sort of thing. I would never try to deal with an insurance company for any significant claim without an attorney.

They aren't, cruise lines are self insured. They pay these claims out of their own pocket and fight them as a result. They have staff counsel so it's not like they are paying by the hour.

Are they? I have read conflicting reports but believe they generally self-insure for losses through liability under a certain very high threshold.

Right they have insurance incase the ship is damaged not for passenger injury.

There is always a case even if Carnival is not at fault. Like the railing should have been 2 inches higher. Or there should have been a big blinking neon sign warning about the danger of falling. Or perhaps a safety cargo net should have been installed in the atrium in case someone would fall from above. When a defendant is loaded with money, the ambulance chaser will always find an imaginary fault to go after the defendant's cash account.

Not true either, cruise law is very difficult. The laws heavily favor the Cruise line and not the passenger. They get to select the forum (Southern District of Florida) and based on the new Pizzino ruling the Plaintiff has to provide that carnival knew of a dangerous condition but failed to warn.

 

While on land in Florida if the company created the dangerous condition then notice is imputed.

 

Sent from my STV100-1 using Forums mobile app

[Cyberburn]

It's sad that you choose to use a child's death for your political agenda.:(

 

 

 

How is saying that it might be "fake news" a political agenda?

There is that recent incident up in Chicago where that teenager died from freezing to death in a hotel freezer. A few people online thought there was a major conspiracy and that she had been murdered.

The full high quality video and autopsy has been released which show that there was no great conspiracy. A number of the "accused" have received many death threats and have been stalked. One person became so afraid that she has moved to an undisclosed city.

I saw a few places report the conspiracy theory as though it was fact. I think it was a clear case of 'fake news'.

 

Even with the case where I had children on my ship doing extremely unsafe things, they were all very nice. None of the children were 'bad' children. They were just active children, and very curious children too, which I respect, but were unaware of the danger they were in at times.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CruiseGal999]

I don’t know the answer to that question. I don’t know all the details to speculate on whether the girl would still be alive. Can you share what details you know to make that a true statement?

 

Copy the full sentence. IF that 8 yr. old girl had a harness/leash on her, she would still be alive.

[Tommy3putts]

Copy the full sentence. IF that 8 yr. old girl had a harness/leash on her, she would still be alive.

 

 

 

How do you know that?

[sfaaa]

Copy the full sentence. IF that 8 yr. old girl had a harness/leash on her, she would still be alive.

 

She would be a laughing stock among her peers and subject to bullying and teasing.

[Ocean Dancer]

How is saying that it might be "fake news" a political agenda?

There is that recent incident up in Chicago where that teenager died from freezing to death in a hotel freezer. A few people online thought there was a major conspiracy and that she had been murdered.

The full high quality video and autopsy has been released which show that there was no great conspiracy. A number of the "accused" have received many death threats and have been stalked. One person became so afraid that she has moved to an undisclosed city.

I saw a few places report the conspiracy theory as though it was fact. I think it was a clear case of 'fake news'.

 

Even with the case where I had children on my ship doing extremely unsafe things, they were all very nice. None of the children were 'bad' children. They were just active children, and very curious children too, which I respect, but were unaware of the danger they were in at times.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Because you only have 18 posts and do not know of the poster's background

[cruise_everywhere]

I've been following and reading this since the first few hours it was reported and I've held back. An eight year old child who had her entire life ahead of her passed away and her family is left with a space that will never be filled.

 

 

No matter what happened on board I wish that on no one. Speaking of that let's stop with the words.... "I heard", "I read", "I saw", "supposedly"... A very few select people know exactly what happened on board and when/if that gets released to the public we will all know what happened. Let's not jump to crazy stories about what happened, what's next and where CCL goes from here. It's a tragedy no matter what - let's leave it at that.

 

May she rest in peace and prayers to those in her family and friends, I hope they have amazing memories from their last vacation with their little girl.

[ladybugpug]

She would be a laughing stock among her peers and subject to bullying and teasing.

 

I agree! Some posters are acting like this family was disembarking from the freaking Titanic.

[Thorncroft]

This thread has gotten even more bizarre than it was last night, if that's even possible. I think the child leashes have me laughing the most. My grown kids would still be shaming me if I had leashed them like a pet Chihuahua, when they were little. LOL

[CruiseGal999]

She would be a laughing stock among her peers and subject to bullying and teasing.

 

Now wouldn't that be better than what actually happened?

[beerman2]

Now wouldn't that be better than what actually happened?

I hope your not condoning bullying, which has/can lead to death( suicides).

 

Losing a child is every parents worst nightmare. This situation is a sad/tragic event.

[Ocean Dancer]

This is absurd! No 8 year old child should be on a leash! Would she also need a crib?

[Sweetjaze]

Now wouldn't that be better than what actually happened?

Is suicide better? That happens to some kids who are relentlessly bullied.

I have a 9 year old and we are sailing on Liberty later this week. She knows the rules - no running or climbing specifically - and understands the dangers. We also talked about this case and how important it is to not do something inherently dangerous.

[sfaaa]

Now wouldn't that be better than what actually happened?

 

Precisely what others have said. Repeated bullying and teasing can easily drive a child into years of depression and even suicide. How can this be better?

[mek]

This is absurd! No 8 year old child should be on a leash! Would she also need a crib?

 

Did someone say an 8 year old should be on a leash? I know I didn't. I used one on my son until he was about 4 and then only in very crowded situations. I can't imagine even suggesting to use one on an older child.