Child falls 2 stories in ship at port

[setsail]

Oh my! We don't know what happened yet, and people are wanting to sue for the insurance money. NO wonder our fare is so expensive. How high must their insurance liability be?

 

For the most part they are self insured just like Royal. They insure the ships but have a huge deductible, like 30 mil and they have personal liability, but also a very high deductible like 10 mil. Everything else is out of pocket so I don't see any insurance money involved here.

[sanger727]

It shouldn't bug you, nor should it bug anyone else on this thread. Like crooooze just said, seeking an attorney is the smart thing to do.

 

 

 

Think about it. How forthcoming do you think Carnival is going to be to the family with their internal reports, closed caption video, witness statements, etc? The family needs a lawyer to prepare subpoenas and help them fact-find. Add in the fact this family is foreign, and it makes obtaining information even more difficult.

 

 

 

I guarantee if you or anyone else on this thread had a family member die in an accident on a cruise ship, you too would be seeking counsel....not necessarily because you want to, but because you have to.

 

 

 

Once the police investigation is complete the information will be shared with the family. There's absolutely no need for them to hire an attorney except to sue. If they 'pursue legal action' it's only because they can find a shady lawyer who knows carnival will probably pay them out rather than deal with the cost and bad publicity of a trial. Whoever said that about 'finding answers' and pursuing legal action wasn't the mom; think it was an uncle or something. Chances are good that the mom is already being informed as the investigation continues. The news was just looking for a sound bite from from a 'family member'.

 

Unfortunately suing is the first place anyone goes anymore when something bad happens, even if the company or person named in the suit did absolutely nothing wrong. I guarantee you there will be a class action lawsuit against Mandalay Bay for insufficient security. Even though prior to october, no one would have accused them of security issues. Once something happens everyone wants to Monday morning quarterback and say it should have been foreseeable and prevented.

 

We had that in cincinnati not too long ago when harambe was killed. The zoo's gorilla exhibit has been around 100 years; there's a wood and netted fence and a 50 ft cliff separating the gorillas from the visitors. No one in their right mind would imagine a child getting in there. Till it happened and suddenly it's the zoo's fault that the fence wasn't secure enough.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

Edited October 16, 2017 by sanger727

[Tommy3putts]

Well ... THIS 8 yr. old girl would be alive if her parents had her on a leash/harness apparatus. She wouldn't have gone down several floors away from her mom. Are you concerned about what others think? It's the SAFETY of your child in a VERY unusual situation ... disembarkation from a cruise ship with thousands of people!

 

 

 

I’ve been lurking (trying to find out details of the accident), but had to chime in. A leash on an 8 year old? I’m sorry but isn’t that a bit old for a “leash?” I was running around a small town neighborhood when I was that age.

 

I’ll wait before I am told of all the facts of what happened by for drawing conclusions. I’m sure there were plenty of witnesses and other evidence and the investigation will be completed in short order.

[Kittybork]

I can't help but agree. Hiring counsel doesn't equate to filing suit for damages. It is a fact finding step.

 

Talk of justice is not fact finding.

[elliair]

I don't think the part about people shoving out of the elevator is accurate. From what I've heard, and someone else mentioned it in this thread, the girl was leaning over the railing trying to get the attention of a family member on a lower deck.

 

 

 

That video is from a Princess ship.

 

Doesn't matter what cruise line, I was showing what kids do to jeopardize their lives. Where were the parents?

 

Here's another one:

 

[CruiseGal999]

I’ve been lurking (trying to find out details of the accident), but had to chime in. A leash on an 8 year old? I’m sorry but isn’t that a bit old for a “leash?” I was running around a small town neighborhood when I was that age.

 

I’ll wait before I am told of all the facts of what happened by for drawing conclusions. I’m sure there were plenty of witnesses and other evidence and the investigation will be completed in short order.

 

As I pointed out .... for this VERY unusual situation ... disembarkation with 1,000s of people getting off the ship .... YES .... a leash/harness. NOT in her every day life .... but THIS instance, she'd still be alive, now wouldn't she?

[Tommy3putts]

.... but THIS instance, she'd still be alive, now wouldn't she?

 

 

I don’t know the answer to that question. I don’t know all the details to speculate on whether the girl would still be alive. Can you share what details you know to make that a true statement?

[CatG04]

Sadly, I was on this cruise. After reading the most recent article where a family member suggests she was pushed getting off an elevator, and after seeing what I saw, I must disagree. The elevators are not near the Atrium railings. I did notice a slope at the bottom of the plexiglass around the Atrium and thought that although not easy, I guess a child could use that to boost themselves higher onto the railing. Also, there are chairs and tables on (I believe) the 5th floor near the railings), so it's possible she climbed on one of those, or of course, she simply could have climbed on her own luggage. Again, only after seeing what I did during disembarkation (we all had to walk right passed the Atrium bar area to get off the ship) I believe she likely fell from the 5th floor and hit the table seen in the photo that was posted earlier of that area. Those tables are EXTREMELY heavy and also stationary, so anything hitting it will take quite a severe blow. Regardless of how it happened, my heart goes out to the family of this child, as well as the passengers & staff who witnessed it.

 

On another related note, (and I'm NOT saying this mother was not watching her child) people tend to have a very false sense of security for their children on cruise ships. I assume most people wouldn't let their 6 year old walk the streets of their own neighborhood alone, yet, I saw a boy approximately 6 or 7 years old on the elevator all alone during this very cruise. Aside from being able to get into their own trouble, you don't know who is on these ships. Anyone could grab a child walking alone and pull them into a room or some other secluded space. A cruise ship is not a shangri-la where nothing goes wrong and everyone is good and children are safe. The very same dangers that exist in the "real world" also exist on cruise ships.

[nealstuber]

It was already announced in the news article link that she died at the hospital. Not good news .... but yes, where were the parents? Put your kids in a harness and a leash. YES ... I said it. Then they don't get away from you and up on a railing and fall! Or run out into traffic. OR get snatched by some crazy.

 

 

 

It was already posted that the article was updated after the poster sent his/her hopes for recovery.

 

The number 2 cause of death in the 15-25 year age range is suicide, and it’s growing rapidly. I won’t say I have an expertise in the field, but there seems to be a lot of evidence that our failure to allow our children to grow leaves them totally unprepared to be grown. I’m not sure where the line between safety and smothering is drawn, but I’m putting leashes on eight year olds on the smothering side of the line.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[Aquahound]

There's absolutely no need for them to hire an attorney except to sue. If they 'pursue legal action' it's only because they can find a shady lawyer who knows carnival will probably pay them out rather than deal with the cost and bad publicity of a trial.

 

Sorry, but that is absolutely incorrect. I'm no fan of lawyers and our litigious society either, but try getting pertinent info out of a major corporation and see what happens. Public record police reports are not all-encompassing. Plus, by law, police have to redact all personal identifiers from their reports before releasing them. You may not see it but if this was your little girl, you'd have an attorney too.

[CruisingUS]

Sadly, I was on this cruise. After reading the most recent article where a family member suggests she was pushed getting off an elevator, and after seeing what I saw, I must disagree. The elevators are not near the Atrium railings. I did notice a slope at the bottom of the plexiglass around the Atrium and thought that although not easy, I guess a child could use that to boost themselves higher onto the railing. Also, there are chairs and tables on (I believe) the 5th floor near the railings), so it's possible she climbed on one of those, or of course, she simply could have climbed on her own luggage. Again, only after seeing what I did during disembarkation (we all had to walk right passed the Atrium bar area to get off the ship) I believe she likely fell from the 5th floor and hit the table seen in the photo that was posted earlier of that area. Those tables are EXTREMELY heavy and also stationary, so anything hitting it will take quite a severe blow. Regardless of how it happened, my heart goes out to the family of this child, as well as the passengers & staff who witnessed it.

 

On another related note, (and I'm NOT saying this mother was not watching her child) people tend to have a very false sense of security for their children on cruise ships. I assume most people wouldn't let their 6 year old walk the streets of their own neighborhood alone, yet, I saw a boy approximately 6 or 7 years old on the elevator all alone during this very cruise. Aside from being able to get into their own trouble, you don't know who is on these ships. Anyone could grab a child walking alone and pull them into a room or some other secluded space. A cruise ship is not a shangri-la where nothing goes wrong and everyone is good and children are safe. The very same dangers that exist in the "real world" also exist on cruise ships.

that's what i figured.

 

i don't htink there was someone who bumped the kid off the banister. had that happened, someone would have been detained for questioning...at least in my jurisdiction

[nealstuber]

.... I assume most people wouldn't let their 6 year old walk the streets of their own neighborhood alone... A cruise ship is not a shangri-la where nothing goes wrong and everyone is good and children are safe. The very same dangers that exist in the "real world" also exist on cruise ships.

 

 

Not everyone lives in single family homes. Those who live in apartments regularly let their young ones go from their apartment to another. Those who send kids to pre-k or day also don’t have eye’s on 24/7.

A cruise ship has one thing going for it that those two places don’t. If someone does something bad to your kid in the middle of the ocean, they won’t go far - and that’s a HUGE deterrent. Compared to these other settings that’s Shang-gr-la.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[mosaic_mom]

One might run to an attorney for discovery, not necessarily for a cash settlement.

 

This family suffered a horrible loss. They deserve to know what happened. In a perfect world there would be no accidents but we don't live in a perfect world.

 

This well could have been an accident. Wouldn't you want to know?

 

Surveillance tapes and eye witness testimony could answer the basic question. How would you get access to either without the help of the legal process?

 

This is very true. Sometimes, unless you have the help of an attorney, it's hard to get truthful and complete information on what happened. I speak from experience. My only child, my 25 yo daughter, died and I hired an attorney to get information on what happened because I got nowhere on my own. Hiring an attorney right away also helps protect any evidence or videos or any information there is from being "lost." Better to be protected even if suing is not your intention. When you've lost a child, you're not thinking clearly and the attorney can help. I feel for the girl's family. They are just starting a very painful journey.

[gtalum]

Don't forget also, the cruise line is insured for this very sort of thing. I would never try to deal with an insurance company for any significant claim without an attorney.

[LMaxwell]

Don't forget also, the cruise line is insured for this very sort of thing. I would never try to deal with an insurance company for any significant claim without an attorney.

 

Are they? I have read conflicting reports but believe they generally self-insure for losses through liability under a certain very high threshold.

[gtalum]

Are they? I have read conflicting reports but believe they generally self-insure for losses through liability under a certain very high threshold.

 

Fair enough, they may well self-insure. I wouldn't want to deal with the cruise line directly for a claim like this either, without an attorney. You're still dealing with actuaries whose job it is to pay out as little as possible. Add in the double much larger factor of the parents being unable to make a logical decision in this situation because of the loss of their child, and they'd be crazy to not seek an attorney.

[Milwaukee Eight]

that's what i figured.

 

 

 

i don't htink there was someone who bumped the kid off the banister. had that happened, someone would have been detained for questioning...at least in my jurisdiction

 

 

 

Local news here in Central Florida is reporting claims of being pushed by crowds on Elevator??

 

Probably more #FAKENEWS.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[bichonandon]

It is said and tragic but how much do you want to bet the Family will hire a lawyer, they will blame CCL for this, settle out of court for Millions of $$$ and CCL will pass that cost down to all future paxs as a booking price increase...

 

They already have and they announced they are suing. :rolleyes:

[coevan]

As I pointed out .... for this VERY unusual situation ... disembarkation with 1,000s of people getting off the ship .... YES .... a leash/harness. NOT in her every day life .... but THIS instance, she'd still be alive, now wouldn't she?

 

 

 

no,no,no,no, want her to bark, sit ? the leashes are disgusting in my opinion. I cringe when I see them. Are they the retractable ones like you walk your dog with. How about this novel idea, hold her hand. They were not around when I grew up, maybe because parents in my era, payed attention to their children and were not distracted by cell phones and other devises. Rant over

[Doggielover68]

It is kind of disturbing to hear someone say they will pursue "some kind" of legal action when he does not even know what happened. He certainly does not seem heart broken.

 

 

 

Yeah, it's kind of sick that they lost a child and the first thing they do is try to make a quick buck. I never understood the need to file a huge lawsuit for an accident that wasn't anyone's fault. Money will not bring her back.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

[Kittybork]

Sorry, but that is absolutely incorrect. I'm no fan of lawyers and our litigious society either, but try getting pertinent info out of a major corporation and see what happens. Public record police reports are not all-encompassing. Plus, by law, police have to redact all personal identifiers from their reports before releasing them. You may not see it but if this was your little girl, you'd have an attorney too.

 

NO, I would NOT have an attorney if she were my daughter. Perhaps I would eventually need one, but my grief would be too all encompassing to worry about an attorney.

[xxHadleyxx]

My heart aches for this family---I cannot imagine their pain.

 

I couldn't even imagine putting a harness on an 8 year old. Unless the 8 year old had some type of intellectual disability or a severe behavior problem that caused him/her to have decreased awareness of danger. At what age do you stop?? Put a harness on a 10 year old, a 12 year old? When they get married lol?? There is no magic age of safety. Ludicrous. It's a parents job to teach their kids about danger and to also supervise their kids because kids will be kids. But accidents are going to happen sadly. A perfectly wonderful parent might get distracted and the unthinkable occurs.That doesn't mean we should infantilize kids and treat them like toddlers until middle school. By the age of 10 I let myself into an empty house after school took care of the dog, and started making dinner.

Exactly.

Honestly, everything we do is a risk. Riding in a car being one of hte biggest and most of us do that on a regular basis and put our kids in them too.

At the end of the day---oversheltering kids is a bigger risk than not: life skills and self reliance develop best when freedom it given out in small increments over years and experience builds. Depressio and anxiety build when people are taught to fear everythig nand not trust themselves to make wise decisions. Etc. The truth is that no one can stop all bad things from happening and trying to do so, or shaming those who do not, is only one more bad thing added to the world.

[ultrafighter]

I'm sorry for your loss, mosaic_mom. :(

[ultrafighter]

Ugh this back and forth about attorneys is just as fruitless as the school discussion was yesterday.

[SadieN]

It’s quite possible the child was leaning over with her leg sticking out and got bumped. Just had a shopping cart v leg incident at Target when an employee stuck her leg out while stocking a shelf as I went by.

 

No matter the cause it’s horrible for the family and all those who witnessed this tragedy.