John Heald about slot pulls

[Cruiseman38]

Just copy and posting what he wrote on his Facebook page. Don't shoot the messenger:

 

I have been trying to help with slot pull tournaments organized by Facebook and Cruise Critic groups but I am afraid I will have to stop doing this now. I will still send two prizes to each group that asks me but I can no longer involve our casino specifically and reserve machines. There have been some concerns recently that involves arguments within these groups and who gets the prize money and how group “leaders” put everything on their card in order to get a drinks are on ...us cards.

Anyway, it has put immense pressure on the casino staff and I just don’t want that to happen anymore. So now, yes, please do have these, choose a machine and off you go and let me know 2 days before the cruise what your cabin number is and I will send prizes there.

 

I am sorry and I do hope you understand

 

cheers

[sanmarcosman]

Not surprising that sly people used others to get the free "drinks on us" benefit at the expense of others in their group. Sad.

[stevefrisco]

I love gambling but I don't think I'd ever do a slot pull because people who don't gamble often don't really understand gambling ethics and I could just see if breaking down into some type of fight or awkward situation. Plus, say the group hits the jackpot, who is the person who is responsible for the taxes? I'm pretty conservative on my taxes and would hate to have to request everyone in the group sign an affidavit about what went down for the IRS. Kind of takes the fun out of everything and good luck finding a notary at sea haha

[klfrodo]

It was all just supposed to be a fun gathering and something to do as a social group. Have fun, a couple of drinks, and if something good happened,,, GREAT

 

Then people started getting their jammies all bunched up. So and so is getting all the points,,so and so is having more fun,,, so and so got a free 59 cent trinket and I didn't,,,,,

[BoDidly]

Never seen a social group cruise where people didn't get suckered. Did anyone expect different ?

[winddawn]

Thanks for sharing the information. This is the first I've heard that people were stretching this private activity, slot pulls, to the point of expecting Carnival to provide perks for them. It sounds to me like Carnival has responded with the appropriate response. A slot pull is a private event and should be treated as such. If passengers want to enjoy casino events, Carnival provides opportunities for that. Carnival's response leaves passengers the option to organize and participate in their own casino events.

[joepeka]

Thanks for sharing the information. This is the first I've heard that people were stretching this private activity, slot pulls, to the point of expecting Carnival to provide perks for them. It sounds to me like Carnival has responded with the appropriate response. A slot pull is a private event and should be treated as such. If passengers want to enjoy casino events, Carnival provides opportunities for that. Carnival's response leaves passengers the option to organize and participate in their own casino events.

(y)(y)

[drgonzogoo]

I love gambling but I don't think I'd ever do a slot pull because people who don't gamble often don't really understand gambling ethics and I could just see if breaking down into some type of fight or awkward situation. Plus, say the group hits the jackpot, who is the person who is responsible for the taxes? I'm pretty conservative on my taxes and would hate to have to request everyone in the group sign an affidavit about what went down for the IRS. Kind of takes the fun out of everything and good luck finding a notary at sea haha

I have only done a couple pulls, but normally the person that puts it together volunteer to take the tax hit. I guess maybe for them it doesnt hurt too bad. But to be fair both times the group didnt really win much.

[winddawn]

It was all just supposed to be a fun gathering and something to do as a social group. Have fun, a couple of drinks, and if something good happened,,, GREAT

 

Then people started getting their jammies all bunched up. So and so is getting all the points,,so and so is having more fun,,, so and so got a free 59 cent trinket and I didn't,,,,,

 

Caveat emptor. Money, and apparently perks/points/trinkets, do funny things to people.

[Micahs Grandad]

Wonder how often this happens but if one person has to put the playing on their card how do you get around who gets the points?

[klfrodo]

Wonder how often this happens but if one person has to put the playing on their card how do you get around who gets the points?

No one gets the points.

You don’t have to have a card to put cash in. Only to get cash out.

[Nic6318]

Hi

 

Just wondering if someone knows. Probably never thought about it because I have never won very much in any casino.

 

I didn't realize that there would be tax consequence from a large win in the casino, mainly because I thought in international waters the state wouldn't have jurisdiction.

 

So what would happen to myself for example...casino winnings are not taxable in Canada. The ship would not withhold anything, would they?

 

In case I ever hit I big, it would be nice to know. :)

[klfrodo]

Hi

 

Just wondering if someone knows. Probably never thought about it because I have never won very much in any casino.

 

I didn't realize that there would be tax consequence from a large win in the casino, mainly because I thought in international waters the state wouldn't have jurisdiction.

 

So what would happen to myself for example...casino winnings are not taxable in Canada. The ship would not withhold anything, would they?

 

In case I ever hit I big, it would be nice to know. :)

No.

if the jackpot is big enough to trigger a possible tax situation, the machine stops play and calls for an attendant.

The attendant check your ID, locks out the machine, then goes into a back room with your ID. I can only assume they review the win, ensure you were the one playing, etc. and then they come and payout the win in cash.

They payout 100% of the win. If a US citizen, you get a W2G ( or maybe a 1099G) in your mailbox before the end of the cruise.

 

In other words, the cruise line doesn’t withhold anything. They just report the winnings to the US Govt.

[aztekpm]

Would be good to know, being from Canada too. It sure is nice to win here tax free ... in the US, they take taxes starting at $1200, but, I've always won just under $1000 in any one spin at a slot on the boat, so not sure if they would take taxes for a Canadian winner.

[aztekpm]

No.

if the jackpot is big enough to trigger a possible tax situation, the machine stops play and calls for an attendant.

The attendant check your ID, locks out the machine, then goes into a back room with your ID. I can only assume they review the win, ensure you were the one playing, etc. and then they come and payout the win in cash.

They payout 100% of the win. If a US citizen, you get a W2G ( or maybe a 1099G) in your mailbox before the end of the cruise.

 

 

Good to Know :) Had to wait almost an hour in Atlantic City for my payout last time. They were quicker in Biloxi!

[cruisewithwife]

Interesting just put out info to do one for our upcoming cruise....guess we will have a couple prizes but I didn't expect John to reserve a machine

[Mar56]

Would be good to know, being from Canada too. It sure is nice to win here tax free ... in the US, they take taxes starting at $1200, but, I've always won just under $1000 in any one spin at a slot on the boat, so not sure if they would take taxes for a Canadian winner.

My concern aS a Canadian is how do we get the cash across the border? Arent we required to report any cash amounts over 10,000? Not sure of the implications of having more than that! Would love to be in the position where I actually had to worry about that. :)

[Nic6318]

My concern aS a Canadian is how do we get the cash across the border? Arent we required to report any cash amounts over 10,000? Not sure of the implications of having more than that! Would love to be in the position where I actually had to worry about that. :)

 

Hi

 

Yes. You are allowed to bring in any amount, you just have to report any amount over $10000 CDN.

 

You can be questioned where the money came from. Bring any paperwork the ship would give you, maybe a picture of you jumping up and down, etc... I saw this on that border security tv show.

 

This would be a really nice problem. :) I can't imagine it happening to me. I would be happy with $100. I also think that if you ask, they would give you a cheque, just for the convenience aspect.

[angela12345]

Claiming people organize a Slot Pull in order to get points for the 'Drinks on Us' card is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

 

First of all, it takes 1500 points to get the drinks card. It takes $2.50 of play for each one point. That means there would need to be $3,750 worth of slot play in order to qualify for the card. Assuming most group slot pulls "buy in" is $20 per person, that would mean there would need to be 187 people participating in the slot pull for the organizer to get a drinks on us card (most slot pulls are only 15-40 people).

 

Secondly, being the organizer for a slot pull takes a fair amount of work. The last 2 slot pulls I organized had 17 people and 36 people (including me & hubby). I don't remember how many points were earned on the 17 person slot pull, but it wasn't many. The 36 person slot pull was held this past Friday so I still have those numbers. 36 x $20 = $720 / $2.50 = 288 points. For the amount of work it takes to organize the slot pulls, I would NOT begrudge the organizer the 288 points, especially since those points do not gain the organizer anything at all by themselves. I have never minded when the organizer had their card in the machine during a slot pull, and even less once I started organizing some of them and saw that it does take some work to be the organizer.

 

What if the group wants to continue play and not cash out after the first round, would the organizer then earn enough points ? Still it's NO ... the slot pull we had on Friday, the group voted to continue playing until we either hit a jackpot or ran out of money. We ended up playing 403 pulls at $5 per pull (that was an average of 11 pulls per person + a few extra pulls) and still the points earned were only 806. So, not much over halfway to the Drinks on Us card. Even combined with my gambling on the cruise (I spent well over an hour or two every single night gambling in the casino on craps), I never earned the Drinks on Us card. It is not as easy as you would think. It's cheaper to just buy the Cheers package for 2 people than for one person to earn the card ! ;p On the slot pull with 17 people, the group also voted to continue playing, however we hit one of the minor jackpots and then we all voted to cash out right then, so some people did not get their extra spins on the additional rounds of play, and the points were very low.

 

Someone above said play with no card in the machine. Yes, you could do that if you begrudge the organizer the "points" they may earn which gives them nothing. Or you could choose to not participate in the slot pull at all if it bothers you. The reason I put my card in the machine is I have all of the participants buy ins preloaded to my card. When it's time to start play, I load all of the money into the machine at one time from my card and everyone could see the balance that the proper amount was loaded. As opposed to trying to feed a bunch of cash into the machine. Imagine how many times in your life you have tried to feed money into a drink or change machine and how many times it has spit it back out at you. Now imagine doing that with the amount of money it takes to play a group slot pull !! At the end of the slot pull, I just hit the button to cash out to my card and immediately take it to the cashiers cage. Using a card is a time-saver on both ends.

 

As said above, the slot pull is a fun group activity. The buy in is pretty cheap per person and you can have a lot of fun cheering on the pulls, having a couple drinks, and getting to know some people. If you win, that's just an awesome bonus.

 

About the tax consequences question ... the organizer can inform casino cashier that the winnings will be divided by # number of entries so that it is not necessary to declare winnings on a 1099. If the casino cashier requires a 1099, normal rules I have seen call for 15-25% of the net winnings (jackpot minus initial input) to be withheld for taxes by the organizer. Unfortunately, we've never won so much that we needed to worry about this in any of the slot pulls I have participated in. :(

 

But next time we're going to win for sure ! :D:champagne-toast:

[DaveOKC]

I am pretty certain that you cannot just claim that the jackpot money is to be split up so as to avoid the taxes. I had a similar situation in Vegas come up in a poker tournament and we had to have someone claim the top prize (which was taxable), even though we all agreed to split the winnings.

[annabell08]

Claiming people organize a Slot Pull in order to get points for the 'Drinks on Us' card is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

 

First of all, it takes 1500 points to get the drinks card. It takes $2.50 of play for each one point. That means there would need to be $3,750 worth of slot play in order to qualify for the card. Assuming most group slot pulls "buy in" is $20 per person, that would mean there would need to be 187 people participating in the slot pull for the organizer to get a drinks on us card (most slot pulls are only 15-40 people).

 

Secondly, being the organizer for a slot pull takes a fair amount of work. The last 2 slot pulls I organized had 17 people and 36 people (including me & hubby). I don't remember how many points were earned on the 17 person slot pull, but it wasn't many. The 36 person slot pull was held this past Friday so I still have those numbers. 36 x $20 = $720 / $2.50 = 288 points. For the amount of work it takes to organize the slot pulls, I would NOT begrudge the organizer the 288 points, especially since those points do not gain the organizer anything at all by themselves. I have never minded when the organizer had their card in the machine during a slot pull, and even less once I started organizing some of them and saw that it does take some work to be the organizer.

 

What if the group wants to continue play and not cash out after the first round, would the organizer then earn enough points ? Still it's NO ... the slot pull we had on Friday, the group voted to continue playing until we either hit a jackpot or ran out of money. We ended up playing 403 pulls at $5 per pull (that was an average of 11 pulls per person + a few extra pulls) and still the points earned were only 806. So, not much over halfway to the Drinks on Us card. Even combined with my gambling on the cruise (I spent well over an hour or two every single night gambling in the casino on craps), I never earned the Drinks on Us card. It is not as easy as you would think. It's cheaper to just buy the Cheers package for 2 people than for one person to earn the card ! ;p On the slot pull with 17 people, the group also voted to continue playing, however we hit one of the minor jackpots and then we all voted to cash out right then, so some people did not get their extra spins on the additional rounds of play, and the points were very low.

 

Someone above said play with no card in the machine. Yes, you could do that if you begrudge the organizer the "points" they may earn which gives them nothing. Or you could choose to not participate in the slot pull at all if it bothers you. The reason I put my card in the machine is I have all of the participants buy ins preloaded to my card. When it's time to start play, I load all of the money into the machine at one time from my card and everyone could see the balance that the proper amount was loaded. As opposed to trying to feed a bunch of cash into the machine. Imagine how many times in your life you have tried to feed money into a drink or change machine and how many times it has spit it back out at you. Now imagine doing that with the amount of money it takes to play a group slot pull !! At the end of the slot pull, I just hit the button to cash out to my card and immediately take it to the cashiers cage. Using a card is a time-saver on both ends.

 

As said above, the slot pull is a fun group activity. The buy in is pretty cheap per person and you can have a lot of fun cheering on the pulls, having a couple drinks, and getting to know some people. If you win, that's just an awesome bonus.

 

About the tax consequences question ... the organizer can inform casino cashier that the winnings will be divided by # number of entries so that it is not necessary to declare winnings on a 1099. If the casino cashier requires a 1099, normal rules I have seen call for 15-25% of the net winnings (jackpot minus initial input) to be withheld for taxes by the organizer. Unfortunately, we've never won so much that we needed to worry about this in any of the slot pulls I have participated in. :(

 

But next time we're going to win for sure ! :D:champagne-toast:

 

Awesome explanation!!!!! Thanks!!

[poz222]

If you organize the pull.... you should put your card in... period... if that bothers you, you should forgo participating and gamble solo.... it’s a fun event activity to meet other cruisers ... not a pyramid scheme to get rich.... get a grip people!

[Elaine5715]

Awesome explanation!!!!! Thanks!!

Except not accurate. A jackpot over $1200 is credited to one person not divided up between # to avoid taxes.

[angela12345]

Except not accurate. A jackpot over $1200 is credited to one person not divided up between # to avoid taxes.

Like I said, you can ask the casino cashier. I have never participated in a slot pull that had winnings that needed a 1099. I wish ! However, I have seen many people report that they were allowed to divide it. I have also seen some people report that the cashier would not allow division. Like many things, it sounds like it depends on who you get that day. YMMV

[BlerkOne]

Canadians do not have to worry about the US IRS for any winnings. They are just to make things miserable for US citizens.

 

One obvious solution to the points scam (and it is a scam) is for each person to put their card in the machine when it is their turn to play. Everybody gets some points. In case of a jackpot, make sure a Canadians S&S card was inserted prior. :cool: