Jeans Turned Away on Gala Night

[navybankerteacher]

I miss the time when grown ups didn't resort to name calling to get their point across.

 

It is a reasonable assumption that vulgar people will more easily understand blunt language - they certainly are immune to subtlety.

[RocketMan275]

Congratulations on your retirement. I hope to retire in 3 years.

 

I had to wear suits and ties in the 80s as well. Since then I have worn khakis and a collared shirt (minimum Gala Night attire, lol) and jeans on Fridays.

 

My daughter just graduated college and started a job in an office environment with a fairly large company and jeans are considered appropriate every day. Times and fashions change.

 

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Thank you. I hope you enjoy retirement as well as I do.

[kazu]

Cruise critic is a place to discuss cruising. It would have been appropriate for you son to discuss his concerns about the new dress code and it would have been inappropriate to tell him to find a different line.

 

I think you missed the point. Cruisemom's DS chose to opt for other cruise lines as she has done as well.

 

No one told him to find another cruise line, it was his and her choice.

[*Miss G*]

I have to agree with CruiseMom. My children and their spouses and friends have graduated and are out in the business world. They do not wear jeans to work or in public but they do wear them at the cottage or to do gardening. In fact, jeans are prohibited at work. You either show up properly attired or you will be sent home. I think trends are reversing. Mind you, it also depends on the type of work you do, along with the social circles you are expected to represent and mingle with. They, like my husband and I, would feel uncomfortable dressing otherwise.

[JT1962]

I have to agree with CruiseMom. My children and their spouses and friends have graduated and are out in the business world. They do not wear jeans to work or in public but they do wear them at the cottage or to do gardening. In fact, jeans are prohibited at work. You either show up properly attired or you will be sent home. I think trends are reversing. Mind you, it also depends on the type of work you do, along with the social circles you are expected to represent and mingle with. They, like my husband and I, would feel uncomfortable dressing otherwise.

 

 

I'm just curious as to what field(s) and what part(s) of the country they are in? My experience has been in the South and West, most companies are still more relaxed on the dress codes. They do have standards , but reasonable jeans are perfectly acceptable. Other than law firms, stock brokers and upper management (in some companies), you will not see suits.

 

 

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[Cruzaholic41]

I miss the time when grown ups didn't resort to name calling to get their point across.

 

It’s the first sign of a lost argument. ;)

[RocketMan275]

I think you missed the point. Cruisemom's DS chose to opt for other cruise lines as she has done as well.

 

No one told him to find another cruise line, it was his and her choice.

 

Her point was far more "subtle" than that.

[kazu]

Her point was far more "subtle" than that.

 

Well, I am not going to argue for the sake of argument, but I read her post and to date, I still can read, comprehend and plan tours quite well ;)

 

So, we will just agree to disagree. ;p

[RDC1]

I'm just curious as to what field(s) and what part(s) of the country they are in? My experience has been in the South and West, most companies are still more relaxed on the dress codes. They do have standards , but reasonable jeans are perfectly acceptable. Other than law firms, stock brokers and upper management (in some companies), you will not see suits.

 

 

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A lot depends upon the nature of the company. tech companies are in general more relaxed. A lot of pharmaceutical and medical companies tend to be less relaxed. Positions that face customers, tend to be more strict. Positions that are strictly internal tend to be more relaxed. In all cases employees are expected to follow what ever rules their employers have adopted.

[kevingastreich]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't picture that most people in their 50s will consider 1940s music, jigsaw puzzles, bridge, etc as enjoyable entertainment for their vacation.

 

 

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Funny you should say that. On our last cruise (NA in April 2017) DW and I commented more than once that "They're playing our music!" (70's rock) They even played "our song" and believe me, it is obscure! HeHe.

[JT1962]

In all cases employees are expected to follow what ever rules their employers have adopted.

 

 

I totally agree that they expect you to follow whatever dress code they have. It seems to me that dress requirements are becoming more lenient most places (work & leisure) and I just wondered where they were becoming more strict.

 

 

 

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[navybankerteacher]

I totally agree that they expect you to follow whatever dress code they have. It seems to me that dress requirements are becoming more lenient most places (work & leisure) and I just wondered where they were becoming more strict.

 

 

 

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A number of law firms and financial institutions, as well as government agencies with public contact, in the northeast seem to be trending away from the very casual atmosphere - apparently in reaction to what was seen as overly casual appearance which had developed --- particularly involving staff with significant customer contact.

 

People seem to want their financial and legal advisers to look serious rather than casual.

[iancal]

I guess that is why Bernie Madoff was such a snappy dresser who had closets full of suits, ties, etc.In my former business we dressed to the customer or client's level but never at a higher level than the client. My experience was that the more senior the customer or client was the more likely that he or she would dress in a more relaxed manner to their juniors or associates. They had arrived and did not feel compelled to impress by what they wore but rather how they performed in their respective positions.We do not particularly care if our investment advisor wears shorts, casual, jeans or a suit. All we care about is our investment performance.

Edited January 22, 2018 by iancal

[*Miss G*]

Yes, JT, they are professionals and navybankerteacher is correct in the geographical area, among other things.

Edited January 22, 2018 by *Miss G*

[JT1962]

Yes, JT, they are professionals and navybankerteacher is correct in the geographical area, among other things.

 

 

 

Thanks. Hope that trend doesn't make it to my part of the company, lol. At least until I retire in 3 years.

 

 

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[SetAnOpenCourse]

One could think of a HAL cruise, and Gala nights particularly, as a chance to participate in something outside one's comfort zone. I suspect that many younger cruisers enjoy donning more formal attire, as was mentioned.

 

Yes, I know, dining without a dress code would, similarly, be a chance for others to expand their comfort zone. My point is that setting a standard based on current norms in office attire is not necessarily in everyone's best interest.

 

IMO HAL is adjusting wisely. There's no perfect solution to this, and at this point they are in a position to keep the allure of an elegant ambiance as the customers who prefer to wear jeans on more evenings become (possibly) fewer in number.

[cruisemom42]

I totally agree that they expect you to follow whatever dress code they have. It seems to me that dress requirements are becoming more lenient most places (work & leisure) and I just wondered where they were becoming more strict.

 

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Can't say they are more strict, but jeans are not allowed at my place of work except for a rare casual day (usually for a specific reason), and they never have been in the 17 years I've worked here. I am in the SE working for a mid-size pharma corporation in a non customer-facing role.

 

DS works for a global consulting company; he is based in Atlanta and is also not allowed to wear jeans to any site he visits unless specifically requested to do so (e.g., if visiting a plant...)

[cbr663]

...

IMO HAL is adjusting wisely. There's no perfect solution to this, and at this point they are in a position to keep the allure of an elegant ambiance as the customers who prefer to wear jeans on more evenings become (possibly) fewer in number.

 

I agree that HAL is adjusting wisely. HAL is changing because its passengers are changing. I highly doubt that the decision to change the dress code was made lightly, and I can only imagine the number of meetings and hours spent on coming to a consensus on the wording for a new dress code. Anyone who has worked in a large organization knows that these changes are very difficult to implement.

 

That doesn't change the fact that it had to be done. HAL was witnessing a change in what its passengers wanted. And like any other business, you either change to meet your customers' needs or you simply cease to exist.

[RocketMan275]

One could think of a HAL cruise, and Gala nights particularly, as a chance to participate in something outside one's comfort zone. I suspect that many younger cruisers enjoy donning more formal attire, as was mentioned.

 

Yes, I know, dining without a dress code would, similarly, be a chance for others to expand their comfort zone. My point is that setting a standard based on current norms in office attire is not necessarily in everyone's best interest.

 

IMO HAL is adjusting wisely. There's no perfect solution to this, and at this point they are in a position to keep the allure of an elegant ambiance as the customers who prefer to wear jeans on more evenings become (possibly) fewer in number.

 

The dress code for Gala Nights is a far cry from "elegant ambiance".

[SetAnOpenCourse]

I agree that HAL is adjusting wisely. HAL is changing because its passengers are changing. I highly doubt that the decision to change the dress code was made lightly, and I can only imagine the number of meetings and hours spent on coming to a consensus on the wording for a new dress code. Anyone who has worked in a large organization knows that these changes are very difficult to implement.

 

That doesn't change the fact that it had to be done. HAL was witnessing a change in what its passengers wanted. And like any other business, you either change to meet your customers' needs or you simply cease to exist.

 

 

Most importantly, they have not abandoned tradition, and modified their guidelines only to a point where formal/elegant evenings are still possible.

[SetAnOpenCourse]

The dress code for Gala Nights is a far cry from "elegant ambiance".

 

Casual attire by some passengers does not have a great impact on the ambiance, IMO. The bottom didn't fall out after the guidelines changed, did it?

[Sea girl 23]

Thank goodness for HAL taking the "risk" of implementing Gala nights.I don't mind dressing up,even when it was an honest to goodness formal night(I remember actual formal nights..I've been cruising with Holland America for a while..not as long as some)

[RocketMan275]

Casual attire by some passengers does not have a great impact on the ambiance, IMO. The bottom didn't fall out after the guidelines changed, did it?

 

So, why do some claim that the dress code is the only barrier preventing hordes of Walmart Shoppers and Carnival Cruisers from holding hairy legs contests during dinner in the MDR?

[SetAnOpenCourse]

So, why do some claim that the dress code is the only barrier preventing hordes of Walmart Shoppers and Carnival Cruisers from holding hairy legs contests during dinner in the MDR?

 

Ha ha. Well maybe a post or two in this thread stirred the pot. :)

 

I suspect that many traditionalists here do not think HAL is on a slippery slope, or had their cruise ruined by a ball cap, or keep a fashion scorecard, but rather they are debating the topic as it is presented in this thread.

Edited January 22, 2018 by SetAnOpenCourse
Typo

[navybankerteacher]

So, why do some claim that the dress code is the only barrier preventing hordes of Walmart Shoppers and Carnival Cruisers from holding hairy legs contests during dinner in the MDR?

 

Well, I really have not seen/heard that claim put forth on these threads.

 

But, I do wonder why some people get their skivvies in a knot over the idea of a cruise line wanting to offer passengers some level of ambience in the main dining room a notch or two above that to be expected at an interstate pit stop.