Missing Embarkation—can I board at first port reached?

[chengkp75]

I Agree that the passage secures lot of jobs, those aren’t the ones I was referring too. I have worked on lot ferries and smaller coastal passenger ships, and MARAD port engineer, before becoming a shipyard project manager.

 

Just saying if better mix on hotel staff end maybe more US flags would be out there. Read about POA earning during a recent stockholders earning report about its revenue. I was suppressed too. Well double check. Frank Rio talked about it.

 

NCL is always having slot to hire for on POA, that’s lot of training costs. Have heard good reports from passengers lately on the crew

 

 

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The problem is that the USCG requires that every crew member who is assigned an emergency duty must have a Merchant Mariners Credential, as opposed to the foreign flag ships where only the deck and engine departments are credentialed mariners. And, realistically, the PVSA has not much to do with the citizenship of the crew, because even US flag ships that are not Jones Act or PVSA compliant have to have an all US (+ green card) crew. I'm not sure what law specifically required all US crews on US flag vessels, but it goes back before the PVSA.

 

This is another reason that guest services suffer on POA, over and above the cultural differences in service industry performance between the US and the parts of the world where most cruise ship crews are hired. In those countries, if a new cabin steward is needed, there is a pool of them waiting for a job, without a lot of documentation. In the US, there are not a lot of hotel cleaners, wait staff, or bar staff waiting in the wings for a job on a cruise ship, that also happen to have the required documentation. Documentation can take up to 6 months for US crew. So, the POA is almost always sailing short handed.

[Merion_Mom]

It is only considered useless if you think of it as the "Cruise Vessel Services Act", and not the "Passenger Vessel Services Act", and take into consideration the international definition of a "passenger vessel", which is any vessel that carries more than 12 persons for hire. Therefore, the PVSA protects the tens of thousands of US jobs on ferries, commuter boats, water taxis, duck boat tours, whale watching tours, dinner cruises, casino boats, and even larger charter fishing vessels. Without the PVSA, all the officers and crew on these multiple types of vessels could be foreign crew, meeting only the international STCW standards of training and certification, not the more stringent USCG standards, the vessels would not have to meet USCG standards for safety, and the companies would not have to meet US labor or tax laws.

 

As to the POA. All US vessels are allowed to hire up to 25% of the unlicensed crew as US legal resident aliens (green card holders) (all licensed officers must be US citizens). The law passed for NCL to allow NRAC (non-resident alien crew) onboard still limits the non-citizens to 25% (now being a combination of Green Card and NRAC), the NRAC have to obtain US Merchant Mariner Credentials (including the background check), have to have been employed by NCL for a minimum of 10 years prior, and NCL has to obtain a work visa for them, not just the far easier to obtain crew visa.

 

I'm not sure that the POA is the top net revenue earner in NCL. It may be the top gross revenue earner, but I can tell you that the expenses to operate the ship under US flag is what makes the cruises so expensive. A 7 day cruise on POA is about the same cost as a 15 day cruise from the West Coast on a foreign flag ship, and that ship uses 3-4 times the fuel that POA does. The Congressional Budget Office has determined that the difference in operating a cargo ship, with its much smaller crew, as a US flag vessel, over operating as a foreign flag vessel, is $1.4 million/year. You can probably factor that by a factor of 10 for a cruise ship, especially when you add in the added cost of operating in Hawaii. Fuel alone is about 150% of what it is on the West Coast. Just getting a new crew member to the gangway for his/her first day of work costs NCL about $8000 (training, certification) and that crew member is free to quit and walk off the ship at any time, and we had many do just that within an hour of boarding the ship. I was part of the NCL US flag fleet from the time it started (an original officer on the Pride of Aloha, even before it reflagged from the Sky) until the Aloha left and was reflagged back to the Sky, leaving only the POA.

Fascinating description, as always.

 

Thanks, Chief. :)

[chengkp75]

Fascinating description, as always.

 

Thanks, Chief. :)

 

One thing I forgot to mention regarding the NRAC crew on POA. While they do get paid at US pay scales, they also have to pay US taxes and US Social Security, even though they don't derive any benefit from it, and can't get any of it refunded.

[CruiseGal999]

What does the OP think of all of this?

[Merion_Mom]

One thing I forgot to mention regarding the NRAC crew on POA. While they do get paid at US pay scales, they also have to pay US taxes and US Social Security, even though they don't derive any benefit from it, and can't get any of it refunded.

 

Well, THAT stinks for them!

 

(but thank you, NRAC, for your contributions. ;) )

[Lordnlkon]

What’s the point of this law? It seems rather stupid.

[chengkp75]

What’s the point of this law? It seems rather stupid.

 

It protects coastwise shipping for the country involved. Most nations with sea coasts have some form of cabotage laws that preclude foreign ships from doing coastwise trade (Russia, Japan, China, Brazil, the EU).

 

As noted above, it requires ships trading along our coasts to be US flag, thereby mandating that they all are subject to all US law.

 

When viewed from the narrow context of the cruise industry, it may seem outdated and restrictive, but the law paints with a much broader brush in the maritime industry than just the cruise industry.

[SFBayAreaShipLover]

It protects coastwise shipping for the country involved. Most nations with sea coasts have some form of cabotage laws that preclude foreign ships from doing coastwise trade (Russia, Japan, China, Brazil, the EU).

 

As noted above, it requires ships trading along our coasts to be US flag, thereby mandating that they all are subject to all US law.

 

When viewed from the narrow context of the cruise industry, it may seem outdated and restrictive, but the law paints with a much broader brush in the maritime industry than just the cruise industry.

 

 

 

And safety and qualifications annimportant part of the law. Thanks Ch for your input, much valued.

 

 

 

 

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[Cruisin'Horns]

Andrew, has Canada ceded Vancouver to the US?

Fifty-Four Forty or Fight!?

[Bkchero]

So the Azamara Journey cruise that starts in Miami and ends in NYC is exempt b/c it goes to the ABC islands, SXM, St. Bart’s and Bermuda, at least one of which if not several must be considered a distant port . . .

[Merion_Mom]

So the Azamara Journey cruise that starts in Miami and ends in NYC is exempt b/c it goes to the ABC islands, SXM, St. Bart’s and Bermuda, at least one of which if not several must be considered a distant port . . .

Only the ABC islands, of that list, matter. Each of those is considered a "distant foreign port" under the PVSA.

[SG65CB]

I read the Wikipedia page where it says North America, Central America, and most of the Caribbean do not count as a distant foreign port. Jewel of the Seas is going to run a Panama Canal cruise that starts in California and ends in Florida. Apparently somewhere along the way is a qualifying distant foreign port? They also have a trip in the opposite direction from Florida to California, a separate cruise.

[Cruise Junky]

I read the Wikipedia page where it says North America, Central America, and most of the Caribbean do not count as a distant foreign port. Jewel of the Seas is going to run a Panama Canal cruise that starts in California and ends in Florida. Apparently somewhere along the way is a qualifying distant foreign port? They also have a trip in the opposite direction from Florida to California, a separate cruise.

Columbia or one of the ABC islands count on a Panama Canal cruise.

[broberts]

I read the Wikipedia page where it says North America, Central America, and most of the Caribbean do not count as a distant foreign port. Jewel of the Seas is going to run a Panama Canal cruise that starts in California and ends in Florida. Apparently somewhere along the way is a qualifying distant foreign port? They also have a trip in the opposite direction from Florida to California, a separate cruise.

 

From the entry cited, emphasis mine:

"

does not prohibit foreign-flagged ships departing from a U.S. port, visiting a

distant

foreign port, and then continuing to a second U.S. port. However, in order to embark in a U.S. port and disembark in a second U.S. port, the vessel must visit a distant foreign port outside of

North America

(

Central America

,

Bermuda

. the

Bahamas

, and all of the

Caribbean

except

Aruba

,

Bonaire

, and

Curaçao

, count as part of North America);

"

[Merion_Mom]

I read the Wikipedia page where it says North America, Central America, and most of the Caribbean do not count as a distant foreign port. Jewel of the Seas is going to run a Panama Canal cruise that starts in California and ends in Florida. Apparently somewhere along the way is a qualifying distant foreign port? They also have a trip in the opposite direction from Florida to California, a separate cruise.

 

Columbia or one of the ABC islands count on a Panama Canal cruise.

Yes, the stop in Cartagena, Columbia is the key here.