Crazy HAL Taxes and Fees

[Petersonfcu]

Was looking at a short (three day) repositioning cruise on the Volendam departing May 5, 2019, from San Francisco to Vancouver. The cheapest inside cabin on a third party website was advertised at $176, or about $58 a day -- a reasonable price for a repo cruise. When I clicked through to the final cost, though, the price more than doubled! I then checked the cruise on the HAL website and, sure enough, they wanted $185 per person in taxes and fees for this inside cabin! In other words, the taxes and fees were more than the base cruise fare! I am used to these extra charges at maybe twenty to thirty percent of the base fare, but now more than one hundred percent?? Has anyone else come across such huge taxes and fees?? There should be some law or regulation that requires the cruise line or travel agency to give you the total cost of a cruise upfront, as with airfares, so it's possible to compare different cruise costs without so much time and effort.

[AtlantaCruiser72]

Cruise taxes have nothing to do with the cost of a cruise, nor the length. Base fares fluctuate based on supply/demand and what the market will bear. Taxes are totally representative of the fixed cost to do business in specific ports on a specific date on a specific ship. San Fransisco and Vancouver are both notoriously expensive cities to live in, visit and do business in, so I am not surprised that their taxes are that high. "Turnaround" ports always charge more than intermediate ports of call due to all the ancillary services the turnaround ports must provide.

 

There are only a few cruise lines (mostly ultra premium/luxury brands such as Regent and Viking) that elect to include all taxes and fees in their advertised pricing. Until compelled to do so by law mainstream cruiselines, hotels, retailers etc will continue to leave taxes as an add on to advertised pricing.

 

 

It is only a result of consumer lawsuits that airlines are one of the only businesses in the US that are required to include taxes/fees in their advertised fares.

[richwmn]

A recent discussion of port fees and taxes can be found at https://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2625899

[OVgirl]

They use the word taxes to describe those costs, but we need to realize it's not a sales tax. It's a port tax that is a fixed amount regardless of the cabin category and what you paid. These costs remain the same for every cabin, penthouse to insides.

[CruiserBruce]

Some excellent points made here...particular as this was just examined in detail just a week or so ago.

 

First misconception...the title..."Crazy HAL taxes and fees". Just like the income tax here in California, it has nothing to do with the business you work for...so it is not "McDonald's crazy taxes and fees", it is the state and federal government, and perhaps local (for certain fees and taxes), not the business.

 

It is the same for your cruise. It IS NOT HAL's taxes and fees, it is local government and port authorities.

 

And, just like airfares, there is NO correlation between port taxes and fees, and how much you paid for your cabin.

[Petersonfcu]

.

 

It IS NOT HAL's taxes and fees, it is local government and port authorities.

 

 

It is very hard to believe that all this tax/fee add-on is going only to the port and the government. Case in point, compare my Volendam May 5, 2019 cruise with the Golden Princess September 25, 2019 cruise. Exactly the same route, with the same end and port stops, the only difference being that they are in opposite directions. Yet Princess is only charging $55 in taxes and fees, compared to $185 for HAL. On a three day cruise, that is a difference of more than $40 per passenger per day! To me, it is clear that HAL is shifting some cost to "taxes and fees" that Princess is not. Is there some creditable source that details exactly what can be included in the tax/fee category? If so, what is this source?

[CruiserBruce]

It is very hard to believe that all this tax/fee add-on is going only to the port and the government. Case in point, compare my Volendam May 5, 2019 cruise with the Golden Princess September 25, 2019 cruise. Exactly the same route, with the same end and port stops, the only difference being that they are in opposite directions. Yet Princess is only charging $55 in taxes and fees, compared to $185 for HAL. On a three day cruise, that is a difference of more than $40 per passenger per day! To me, it is clear that HAL is shifting some cost to "taxes and fees" that Princess is not. Is there some creditable source that details exactly what can be included in the tax/fee category? If so, what is this source?

 

If you read the thread mentioned above., you will see how this happens.

[AtlantaCruiser72]

It is very hard to believe that all this tax/fee add-on is going only to the port and the government. Case in point, compare my Volendam May 5, 2019 cruise with the Golden Princess September 25, 2019 cruise. Exactly the same route, with the same end and port stops, the only difference being that they are in opposite directions. Yet Princess is only charging $55 in taxes and fees, compared to $185 for HAL. On a three day cruise, that is a difference of more than $40 per passenger per day! To me, it is clear that HAL is shifting some cost to "taxes and fees" that Princess is not. Is there some creditable source that details exactly what can be included in the tax/fee category? If so, what is this source?

 

First - one is May the other September. Berthing dates can affect the charge from the port

 

Second - Golden Princess carries 2632 passengers at double occupancy, Volendam carries 1432. The TOTAL tax is amortized based on passengers capacity vs total charge.

 

Third - Princess my have more favorable contracts with local governments than HAL For example - because Princess has a long term contract with the port of San Fransisco basing at least 1 ship year round for X number of years, their berthing cost will be lower than other cruise lines that only visit that port 1-2 times a year or so.

 

All of the above, and more, are why taxes are so wildly divergent with each cruise line, even when all else seems equal.

[RuthC]

First - Berthing dates can affect the charge from the port

 

Second - The TOTAL tax is amortized based on passengers capacity vs total charge.

 

Third - Princess my have more favorable contracts with local governments than HAL

 

All of the above, and more, are why taxes are so wildly divergent with each cruise line, even when all else seems equal.

But why listen to reason when simple outrage will suffice? :confused:

[POA1]

It is very hard to believe that all this tax/fee add-on is going only to the port and the government. Case in point, compare my Volendam May 5, 2019 cruise with the Golden Princess September 25, 2019 cruise. Exactly the same route, with the same end and port stops, the only difference being that they are in opposite directions. Yet Princess is only charging $55 in taxes and fees, compared to $185 for HAL. On a three day cruise, that is a difference of more than $40 per passenger per day! To me, it is clear that HAL is shifting some cost to "taxes and fees" that Princess is not. Is there some creditable source that details exactly what can be included in the tax/fee category? If so, what is this source?

Yet, it is.

 

You can check the port fees and taxes for almost every port. I'm not aware of any cruise lines that mark them up.

 

Just compare any two cruisers on the same itinerary. I'll lay you dollars to donuts that the taxes and fees are the same.

 

Your issue is with the governments. Same with air travel.

[RDC1]

It is very hard to believe that all this tax/fee add-on is going only to the port and the government. Case in point, compare my Volendam May 5, 2019 cruise with the Golden Princess September 25, 2019 cruise. Exactly the same route, with the same end and port stops, the only difference being that they are in opposite directions. Yet Princess is only charging $55 in taxes and fees, compared to $185 for HAL. On a three day cruise, that is a difference of more than $40 per passenger per day! To me, it is clear that HAL is shifting some cost to "taxes and fees" that Princess is not. Is there some creditable source that details exactly what can be included in the tax/fee category? If so, what is this source?

 

I really doubt that, especially when you consider that Princess and HAL are managed fairly tightly together in the CCL corporate structure. Both being in the same operating unit, sharing many support functions.

 

The taxes and fees are based upon what they are being charged. There is a fairly large number of items that could result in substantial variation from one cruise to another, including but not limited to port activity, time in port, required services, docking location, contract terms, etc.

 

While it is not a port involved in this discussion, one of the best breakdowns I have found detailing everything that goes into port charges come from Sydney Harbor, NSW, Australia. Makes for an interesting read for anyone interested

 

https://www.portauthoritynsw.com.au/media/1744/sydney-schedule-of-port-charges-1-july-2016.pdf

 

 

Here is also one for the port of Vancouver

 

https://www.portvancouver.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Port-Metro-Vancouvers-2014-Fee-Document.pdf

 

 

Also keep in mind that the cost are split per passenger and while the some charges are per ton, others are fixed per ship, and the costs are split among the number of passengers. Thus I would expect if everything else is the same the port charges per passenger on the Golden would be less.

[navybankerteacher]

But why listen to reason when simple outrage will suffice? :confused:

 

Simple people find it easier to express simple outrage than try to understand facts.

 

Don't you also automatically assume a conspiracy when traffic slows you down, or when an equipment malfunction delays your plane or train?

 

Aren't we all to important for things we don't like to "just happen"? Of course it is being orchestrated to bother us!

[RuthC]

Don't you also automatically assume a conspiracy when traffic slows you down, or when an equipment malfunction delays your plane or train?

Of course not. :rolleyes:

[sfaaa]

Always focus on the total cruise price becuase this is what you have to pay. How the numbers are broken down is of little relevance to me.

[Phamer55]

Shouldn’t the taxes and fees be the same across cruise lines? HAL is considerably higher than similar cruises on Princess into and out of SF and VAN. I find this strange.

[jenp123]

Shouldn’t the taxes and fees be the same across cruise lines? HAL is considerably higher than similar cruises on Princess into and out of SF and VAN. I find this strange.

 

Did you read any of the above explanations?

[navybankerteacher]

Shouldn’t the taxes and fees be the same across cruise lines? HAL is considerably higher than similar cruises on Princess into and out of SF and VAN. I find this strange.

 

"... similar cruises..." -- if time of year and sizes for ship/ number of passengers carried (and other likely DIFFERENCES) are ignored, I suppose you could refer to them as "similar cruises" .

 

Just one specific thought : 1,400 passengers vs. 2,600 passengers. If the port charge is a flat charge per ship, can you try to understand how each passenger on the much smaller ship might have to pay a larger amount to come up with that charge?