Cutbacks and nickel and diming

[jc4me]

You are right about that. I can't even book a trip to Disney for less than a cruise these days. I've looked at land based trips as well and as a non drinker, AI resorts are just way too expensive for me. I look at it this way. On a typical 7 day cruise, I get 4 days at an island. I also get all of my meals included, transportation, and accommodations. Everything else is just a bonus. The food isn't necessarily fantastic, but I don't care. I don't have to drive anywhere to get it, I don't have to cook it, and I don't have to clean up afterwards.

 

 

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Well said and I totally agree. Has anyone mentioned the addition of USB ports, hair dryers and mini refrigerators during recent dry docks (in addition to the new eateries)? Those are great additions in my opinion and they cost money....certainly not cut backs! Give me a USB port by my bed instead of a chocolate on my pillow any day!

[Poppy42]

We still feel that cruising gives you more bang for your buck despite cut-backs. We trade-off our timeshare. The maintenance of the timeshare is $1000/yr. We get a balcony cabin (usually on the spa deck) for about $700 for the two of us - $1700 total. Seems like a lot BUT, we live about two hours from either Port Everglades or Port Canaveral. Now, if we choose to use our timeshare, we have to fly, pay for food, probably rent a car. We don't drink, we use the MDR and, at the ports, point us to the beach. Our bill at the end of the cruise is only for tips.

[mz-s]

Here's a recent video I found on YouTube that goes over the economics of running a cruise line. I thought it was quite interesting, and sort of goes along with this thread:

 

 

Of course a lot of the video is common sense and discussed elsewhere, but still it's an entertaining video to me.

[TEXSUN46]

You have never heard bingo announcements on the PA, to give one small example?

 

Myself I don't recall ever hearing bingo announcement, I am sure I have but obviously it doesn't annoy me enough to remember it. I don't really recall feeling pestered either about anything else. What I do remember well is going to AI resorts and being hounded to purchase time shares constantly... nothing that would keep me from going back to resort I enjoyed but definitely left a lot bigger impression than anything I have experience on a cruise.

[katibug]

You would probably like to see cacao plants. On one cruise, I went on an excursion where the guide went and found a cacao bush, picked a pod, broke it open, and let us taste. Interestingly, it tasted nothing even remotely close to chocolate, but it is where chocolate comes from.

 

Ooooh - where was that? sounds like EXACTLY my type of excursion. :)

[Keys2Heaven]

I think the cruise lines know that there is more money to be made in the a-la-cart approach, then giving out something that may not appeal to everyone or would lead to a lot of waste. For example, you wants perks, well you can buy them! You want to eat fancy, we have a nice upcharge venue for you to dine at. You want a beverage package....cha-ching!

[scpirate]

Like you, we just started cruising. Our first was in 2016 and our second is next month. As new cruisers, we obviously can't miss what is no longer offered because we weren't around to experience those things when they were, but I read all about them and I'm not so sure I'd miss them anyway. Some of them I flat-out wouldn't care about if we cruised back then. So you're right, us new cruisers don't see the "cutback" that long-timers see. Anyone who's new now who sticks with it for the years to come will see changes of their own. With that said, I think some of the "cutbacks" that have been complained about lately aren't even true cutbacks in my opinion. It seems to be the popular new buzzword. For example, when Carnival adjusted the time at which you can choose your check-in time online to 90 days, some called it a cutback. I don't see how. It seems as if some want to complain and find any excuse. It might sound crass, but if someone is that unhappy with the current product, they should probably "shop" around. I know we will if we begin to feel that way. Everyone has their own tipping point at which they have to decide, "Is this product worth my money?"

 

As far as the cost of land vacations go, I think it depends on the people taking the vacation. You definitely get a lot for your money with a cruise, but it's certainly not the cheapest we can manage. One of our most favorite vacations is the Smoky Mountains. When we're there, we love to take drives and go hiking, so things that are nearly free to do. That's a vacation we love and can do for around $1,000 give or take (family of 3). That includes the gas to drive there/home (and around while we're there), renting a cabin & buying some food to cook for ourselves, maybe go to a restaurant a couple times, and do a few other things like mini golf, one time we went to the Ripley's Aquarium in Gatlinburg, which was awesome by the way, and a few other miscellaneous things that cost. Cruising is actually the most expensive vacation we take, but yes, economical for what you get.

 

Cheap labor by U.S. standards, maybe, but a vast majority of them make more working for cruise lines than they'll ever make in their home countries. I'm not denying how hard they work, because they bust their butts, but I think the term "cheap labor" is relative in this case.

I miss Gatlinburg those were good reasonably priced vacations with the kids but they are grown and have other agendas and my wife doesn't care to go without any children to fuss at.

[simplelife]

Instead of "cutbacks" I like to think of "choices"

When I first cruised Carnival 19 years ago, there weren't many choices: no specialty dining or Anytime dining (it was MDR early or late or Lido with fewer options than we have now). There was no FTTF available. No dive in movies, No drink packages (Bubbles started soon after that, I think). No comedy club - I don't even recall a piano bar, no serenity deck.

Many of these choices have been added at no additional cost. Some at a cost. You pay for what you use - it makes perfect sense to me that the user pays. Do we really want to go back to the days of no choices?

[simplelife]

 

I would love it if more stuff were included up front (more of the stuff I want, anyway) but the trend does seem to be "pay as you go".

 

Would also be nice if different ships had different rules for what is included and what is extra. For example, two similar ships sail out of Miami on the same itinerary, same number of days. One has a base fare of $1,000 per person, includes unlimited drinks and alcohol, and no extra cost specialty restaurants because the MDR is all world class fare. Another has a base fare of $700 per person and is exactly what you get today. I'd pick the more expensive ship, for sure, but there would be plenty of people looking for the cheapest possible cruise... and I would not have to sail with them!

Offering two ships with the same itinerary would mean that Carnival would have to place a lot more ships in service, and they would sell less than full. Just not a cost-effective idea. There are lines that offer more inclusive pricing to meet the needs of those who prefer that. Perhaps you should sail with them.

[jimbo5544]

Instead of "cutbacks" I like to think of "choices"

When I first cruised Carnival 19 years ago, there weren't many choices: no specialty dining or Anytime dining (it was MDR early or late or Lido with fewer options than we have now). There was no FTTF available. No dive in movies, No drink packages (Bubbles started soon after that, I think). No comedy club - I don't even recall a piano bar, no serenity deck.

Many of these choices have been added at no additional cost. Some at a cost. You pay for what you use - it makes perfect sense to me that the user pays. Do we really want to go back to the days of no choices?

Totally agree, nice post.

[Joebucks]

Instead of "cutbacks" I like to think of "choices"

When I first cruised Carnival 19 years ago, there weren't many choices: no specialty dining or Anytime dining (it was MDR early or late or Lido with fewer options than we have now). There was no FTTF available. No dive in movies, No drink packages (Bubbles started soon after that, I think). No comedy club - I don't even recall a piano bar, no serenity deck.

Many of these choices have been added at no additional cost. Some at a cost. You pay for what you use - it makes perfect sense to me that the user pays. Do we really want to go back to the days of no choices?

 

You're doing it wrong. You're supposed to complain that you have to ask for a robe. The nerve! Also, where are your pillow chocolates?!

 

It's ironic, because 19 years ago, they didn't offer most of my favorite things. If they didn't currently have Serenity, Punchliner, Guy's, BlueIguana, and Dive-in movies, I would have a way less favorable opinion of Carnival cruises.

[meatloafsfan]

You're doing it wrong. You're supposed to complain that you have to ask for a robe. The nerve! Also, where are your pillow chocolates?!

 

It's ironic, because 19 years ago, they didn't offer most of my favorite things. If they didn't currently have Serenity, Punchliner, Guy's, BlueIguana, and Dive-in movies, I would have a way less favorable opinion of Carnival cruises.

 

Exactly.

 

I look at cruising of old and it probably wouldn't appeal to me so much.

 

I love the variety of foods available on Carnival through the day; Sea day brunch is another favourite thing. Dive in Movies, movies on demand on the tv (even though you have to pay a whole $5 on Carnival :eek:), numerous evening activities and not being limited to basically 1 big main stage show, the Carnival hub app, Hasbro connection (Giant Jenga, Trivial pursuit, connect 4 tournaments, a card room stocked with games), Waterpark areas to keep the kids busy and a Serenity area to get away from them completely, the Red Frog Pub, the list seems to go on and on for stuff that has been added.

 

People focus on the negative way too much. I'm finding that even at work; it's like people have been in a perpetually bad mood for the last 2 years.

[TATERTOT63]

I’ve never been “CONSTANTLY pestered” to spend more money on any cruise. We prepay nearly everything and have often left ship with a credit balance on our S&S cards due to refunds of port fees. A simple “no thanks” is sufficient to handle any sales pitch.

 

 

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I recently took my sixth cruise, and I felt like, if anything, I was "pestered" less on the Miracle than any other cruise. I barely remember anyone offering me a drink, and the announcements about activities don't seem intrusive to me. I'm not Mr. Sunshine every day, but I find that some people like to be outraged, and seek out reasons to be angry. Have some things changed in the 10 years my wife and I have been cruising? Of course. Have they all been to my benefit? No, and I don't expect them to. Life is hard when you walk around expecting to be disappointed, and I won't live like that. I enjoy cruising, and when I don't, I'll stop.

 

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[mackenzie80]

Dear Lord some of you folks can sure beat a dead horse.

 

You choose to take a vacation. You choose to cruise with Carnival. Are you forced to purchase FTTF or the Cheers packages? No! Is it a option for people who would like to spend the money to do it? Yes!

 

I never had a problem getting ice, my steward asked if I wanted ice, and i ALWAYS had ice in my room. He also got a nice tip for that extra service.

 

MDR - I love to eat, my ex husband was a chef. While I am not a professional, I know good food when I eat it. I also know what it takes to feed that many people. Is it what you would get at a 5 star restaurant? Of course not. But it is what I would expect to get in a large galley like the Carnival kitchens. Which BTW cooks the same food you get in the buffet that people like to bitch and moan about.

 

Room Service Charges - I don't blame them for doing it. They have people drunk calling to place orders at night, then passing out and not answering the door and getting their food. I didn't mind paying less than I would going out to eat back home to have it delivered to my room and the different options.

 

Annoucements/Advertisements - this is how they make money. I never found it to be excessive and I tuned most of it out. I went to the events that I wanted to go to, and ignored the ones that I didn't. Most "sales" pitches when walking around the ship received a simply, "No Thank you" and they never asked me again. But that didn't bother me. No different than walking around the mall in my hometown.

 

If you go on a Cruise expecting 5 star service, 5 star dining, and a out of this world experience, then Carnival is NOT the cruise line for you. Adjust your expectations.

 

If you want a cruise that is affordable, with options to add on based around your needs, then Carnival IMO is a good choice.

 

But again, it is YOUR choice. I am sure Carnival has done testing, research, and focus groups on every price, decision, idea, concept. They know what works, and would quickly change it if it didn't.

 

YOU may not like that, but unless more feels the same way it will not change.

 

I don't really care, I just want a comfortable room, decent room service, food, and mindless entertainment to unwind and relax on my hard earned vacation!

[drsel]

Well said!

[pmang]

Instead of "cutbacks" I like to think of "choices"

 

When I first cruised Carnival 19 years ago, there weren't many choices: no specialty dining or Anytime dining (it was MDR early or late or Lido with fewer options than we have now). There was no FTTF available. No dive in movies, No drink packages (Bubbles started soon after that, I think). No comedy club - I don't even recall a piano bar, no serenity deck.

 

Many of these choices have been added at no additional cost. Some at a cost. You pay for what you use - it makes perfect sense to me that the user pays. Do we really want to go back to the days of no choices?

 

 

 

Very good view point....

 

FYI there has been a dedicated piano bar on every ship built since the Tropical...

 

 

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[BlerkOne]

 

Would also be nice if different ships had different rules for what is included and what is extra. For example, two similar ships sail out of Miami on the same itinerary, same number of days.

 

A recipe for failure. It would be crazy for Carnival to compete with itself.

[buckeyefrank]

I sure wish they would do away with tips altogether and add it to the base fare. The weasels who remove tips would be taking a financial hit, and the rest of us could still pass some cash if we were so inclined.

 

No major cruise line is going to add tips to the base fare. The travel agents would receive additional compensation directly out of the cruise line's pockets.

[Computer Nerd]

No major cruise line is going to add tips to the base fare. The travel agents would receive additional compensation directly out of the cruise line's pockets.

 

No need to add tips to the base fare. Add it to port charges and gratuities. If the cruise is taken, they are paid with no possibility of removal. If the cruise isn't taken, they get returned like port charges and taxes. Published base fare stays the same so it looks like they are competitively priced.

[mz-s]

No need to add tips to the base fare. Add it to port charges and gratuities. If the cruise is taken, they are paid with no possibility of removal. If the cruise isn't taken, they get returned like port charges and taxes. Published base fare stays the same so it looks like they are competitively priced.

 

I have personally never experienced anything less than satisfactory service on Carnival (in fact more often than not the service is exceptional), so I've never thought of removing or even decreasing the automatic gratuities. But I have heard from people who had experiences that justified it - so I'm torn on your idea.

 

I have no problem with gratuities and of course I pay them because that's how the system is set up, and if people don't want to pay them then so be it. There are always people who stiff waiters, cab drivers, and others in service industries. Some people are opposed to tipping people for expected service.

 

It's part of being in that kind of job I think. You grin and bear it, and move on to the next table.

[ParrotRob]

I have personally never experienced anything less than satisfactory service on Carnival (in fact more often than not the service is exceptional), so I've never thought of removing or even decreasing the automatic gratuities. But I have heard from people who had experiences that justified it - so I'm torn on your idea.

 

I have no problem with gratuities and of course I pay them because that's how the system is set up, and if people don't want to pay them then so be it.

 

So just make them mandatory, like restaurants do with larger parties. As long as it's disclosed up front, it's perfectly fine.

[mara93]

I saw a review where someone decreased their tips because they didn't SEE their cabin steward enough.

 

COME ON.

 

I like the idea of having them added to the fare somehow although I don't think TA's should profit. It should go to the workers.

[Computer Nerd]

I have personally never experienced anything less than satisfactory service on Carnival (in fact more often than not the service is exceptional), so I've never thought of removing or even decreasing the automatic gratuities. But I have heard from people who had experiences that justified it - so I'm torn on your idea.

 

I have no problem with gratuities and of course I pay them because that's how the system is set up, and if people don't want to pay them then so be it. There are always people who stiff waiters, cab drivers, and others in service industries. Some people are opposed to tipping people for expected service.

 

It's part of being in that kind of job I think. You grin and bear it, and move on to the next table.

 

I have never removed my gratuities on Carnival either but the sad reality can be seen, firsthand, by walking by Guest Services on the last night of the cruise.

 

That being said, tips are not a service industry expectation. It is an expectation when one works a job where they receive less than minimum wage and get to minimum wage (or better) based on the tip. Waiter/waitress positions are the only job I know of that meets that standard in the US. Cab drivers, barbers, hotel cleaning staff all receive normal minimum wage or higher but then want tips on top of it.

[Computer Nerd]

I saw a review where someone decreased their tips because they didn't SEE their cabin steward enough.

 

COME ON.

 

I like the idea of having them added to the fare somehow although I don't think TA's should profit. It should go to the workers.

 

That's where adding them in like port charges and taxes works nicely.

[jimbo5544]

I saw a review where someone decreased their tips because they didn't SEE their cabin steward enough.

 

COME ON.

 

I like the idea of having them added to the fare somehow although I don't think TA's should profit. It should go to the workers.

 

 

 

People can get really creative in being cheap, also for rationalizing here afterwards. Computer nerd’s idea has merit but I sincerely doubt we will see that change of a main line like Carnival.

 

 

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