Cancelling P&O auto tips - does this hit P&O in the pocket or the staff?

[grapau27]

Let's not ban tipping threads but posters should exercise a little more restraint with their comments, and a little more respect for other poster's views on this, or indeed any topic.

I do believe there is one issue that the majority agree upon, and that is that gratuities should be included in the cruise fare and the cruise line should be responsible for paying all their staff a fair wage. That would leave each passenger to decide whether they wanted to give any staff member a little extra, if they have received special service.

I totally agree with these comments.

[grapau27]

I am one who responded to your few well chosen words, not because I was wound up, I knew you were a ‘wind up merchant’ all along, but because you made inflammatory statements that could be deemed to be allegations of financial mis management on behalf of P&O. I only hope that if one day they decide to take legal action for defamation, they go for the likes of you and not Cruisecritic who provide the board. I fear it will be the latter and we will all lose out.

I agree.

People have different opinions and sometimes your view can change with a reasonable case put forward.

Deliberate wind up merchants with inflammatory statements offer nothing.

[majortom10]

Let's not ban tipping threads but posters should exercise a little more restraint with their comments, and a little more respect for other poster's views on this, or indeed any topic.

I do believe there is one issue that the majority agree upon, and that is that gratuities should be included in the cruise fare and the cruise line should be responsible for paying all their staff a fair wage. That would leave each passenger to decide whether they wanted to give any staff member a little extra, if they have received special service.

 

I agree completely and too many are very rude and personal with some of their comments which is very easy to make when you are an incognito keyboard warrior who would not dare to say the same things that are said to a person face to face. Wherever you go and whatever you tip or not whether it be a cruise, land based holiday, restaurant, taxi or hairdresser it is a personal thing and nothing to do with anyone else and do people worry about have I tipped the hairdresser more than the last customer or did they tip at all and am I subsidising the price of my hair do, I really dont think so. Enjoy your cruising do what is right for you and ignore and dont worry what others do or say.

[P-L-B]

I agree completely and too many are very rude and personal with some of their comments which is very easy to make when you are an incognito keyboard warrior who would not dare to say the same things that are said to a person face to face. Wherever you go and whatever you tip or not whether it be a cruise, land based holiday, restaurant, taxi or hairdresser it is a personal thing and nothing to do with anyone else and do people worry about have I tipped the hairdresser more than the last customer or did they tip at all and am I subsidising the price of my hair do, I really dont think so. Enjoy your cruising do what is right for you and ignore and dont worry what others do or say.

 

Very well put, I totally agree with you.

I think by now with the many past tipping threads we all know ones tipping preferences etc and to go over the same ground repeatedly is not helpful IMO.

BTW, I wonder what the cruise newbies make of all this petty squabbling when visiting the site in the hope of receiving polite and useful information, which to be fair in the majority of cases they get.:cool:

[Harry Peterson]

But not in Freedom dining as you cannot give marks each night. No idea how the bonus system can work there.

 

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It can work quite simply and effectively using feedback from selected representative diners or from managers.

[daiB]

It can work quite simply and effectively using feedback from selected representative diners or from managers.

 

 

 

Possibly it could but everyone keeps on saying that it is the questionnaire at the end of the cruise but it can’t be.

 

 

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[daiB]

I agree completely and too many are very rude and personal with some of their comments which is very easy to make when you are an incognito keyboard warrior who would not dare to say the same things that are said to a person face to face. Wherever you go and whatever you tip or not whether it be a cruise, land based holiday, restaurant, taxi or hairdresser it is a personal thing and nothing to do with anyone else and do people worry about have I tipped the hairdresser more than the last customer or did they tip at all and am I subsidising the price of my hair do, I really dont think so. Enjoy your cruising do what is right for you and ignore and dont worry what others do or say.

 

 

 

This is something that I am in full agreement with you and John. What I do or anyone else does is not the concern of anyone else.

 

I also agree about the keyboard warriors, personally I would not post anything on here or any other forum I would not say to anyone’s face. If fact I would go much further than I do on here in person and with much more interesting language.

 

To pick up on someone else’s post I do feel that anyone new to cruising may well be put off posting when this type of thread seems to be dominating the forum.

 

 

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[kruzseeka]

I agree that this all gets very personal at times and I am saddened when I read put-downs, condescending comments and rudeness. Everyone is entitled to their view and to make their case, hopefully in a reasoned and polite manner. We also all have the right to disagree and I would be disappointed if the manner of disagreeing leads to unpleasantness.

 

I believe I have a much better understanding of how the AG is used now - others may feel differently but it has changed my perspective until I have anything more concrete upon which to base my opinions.

 

But in the meantime it would be a pity imo if we weren't able to discuss these matters, perhaps learn from one another or be introduced to a different point of view - even though these threads do often go over the same ground. But healthy, respectful debate should be possible.

 

BTW we do Freedom Dining but choose to go to the same area each night therefore have the same waiting staff so tipping isn't a problem for us. We notice many other diners also tend to gravitate to the same waiters' station each evening although I can't of course comment on their approach to tipping but it does offer the opportunity for those, who like us, value having the same waiters each day.

[terrierjohn]

Possibly it could but everyone keeps on saying that it is the questionnaire at the end of the cruise but it can’t be.

 

 

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While I will no longer fill in the questionnaire because I refuse to mark excellent, unless the service was exceptionally, I do believe it could be possible if only P&O's IT was fit for purpose.

In freedom we all have to give our cabin number as we enter the MDR, so the computer knows who served us each evening and it should be possible to link this with the questionnaires answers.

But since I intend to cancel the AG I would like to see some sort of "Tip Box" installed in these MDR's which could then be shared across all the waiters.

[grapau27]

I agree that this all gets very personal at times and I am saddened when I read put-downs, condescending comments and rudeness. Everyone is entitled to their view and to make their case, hopefully in a reasoned and polite manner. We also all have the right to disagree and I would be disappointed if the manner of disagreeing leads to unpleasantness.

 

I believe I have a much better understanding of how the AG is used now - others may feel differently but it has changed my perspective until I have anything more concrete upon which to base my opinions.

 

But in the meantime it would be a pity imo if we weren't able to discuss these matters, perhaps learn from one another or be introduced to a different point of view - even though these threads do often go over the same ground. But healthy, respectful debate should be possible.

 

BTW we do Freedom Dining but choose to go to the same area each night therefore have the same waiting staff so tipping isn't a problem for us. We notice many other diners also tend to gravitate to the same waiters' station each evening although I can't of course comment on their approach to tipping but it does offer the opportunity for those, who like us, value having the same waiters each day.

I agree with what you say.

Healthy debate is good and you can learn and even change your opinion if someone puts across a good case

IMO once people get rude and nasty they have lost the argument.

[kalos]

In freedom dining and the buffet they have cards that you can fill in for your waiters on

how your meal went, we fill these in and hand them to reception as we are passing by.

We have even filled one in for the girl handing the trays out in the buffet.

 

Regarding the name calling on this site ,I would say if you have to resort to name calling

just because someone has a different view or takes a different choice to you .

You are the one who then becomes the loser of any debate.

Calling someone stupid or dim because they pay or skinflint ,tightwad because they don't, does nothing to further your argument . The person does not relent because you chose to lower yourself.

You are better than this guys , don't lower yourself to this level.:cool:

 

The only winner is the keyboard warrior as he bates you in the hope that if he winds you up enough, the result is a free for all slanging match , that ends up with the post being locked off.

So he wins as that was his goal anyway .

 

We are better than that :D:D:D

[Ranchi]

Maybe this can’t be answered, but if someone in a cabin near you doesn’t give all excellent on their response form then you cabin steward will lose some money. What happens to that money?

Do other staff get a bigger share of the pie?

Incidentally, I sneaked a look on the Cunard site and there wasn’t a hint of Auto Gratuitues...although there was the old P&O staple of mysterious extra charges for unused mini bar items .

Edited June 11, 2018 by Ranchi

[picsa]

Maybe this can’t be answered, but if someone in a cabin near you doesn’t give all excellent on their response form then you cabin steward will lose some money. What happens to that money?

 

You are overthinking it.

 

It isn't collect £100 and distribute £100, and then oh dear what happens if I only distribute £90.

 

It is collect £100, throw into the pot with the £500 cruise fare, etc, and then pay £250 wages and bonuses.

 

If the bonus falls because someone didn't get 'excellent' then no problem pay out £240 and P&O's statement of "all the £100 goes to staff" is still true(ish). The £100 in auto tips has been paid out and is just lucky P&O save £10 off the wage bill.

 

Cunard is the same and I remove the auto tips there as well.

[daiB]

You are overthinking it.

 

It isn't collect £100 and distribute £100, and then oh dear what happens if I only distribute £90.

 

It is collect £100, throw into the pot with the £500 cruise fare, etc, and then pay £250 wages and bonuses.

 

If the bonus falls because someone didn't get 'excellent' then no problem pay out £240 and P&O's statement of "all the £100 goes to staff" is still true(ish). The £100 in auto tips has been paid out and is just lucky P&O save £10 off the wage bill.

 

Cunard is the same and I remove the auto tips there as well.

In your opinion as I will continue to say as there is no proof of this at all.

 

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[Zombatar]

In your opinion as I will continue to say as there is no proof of this at all.

 

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Dai, is this the same "No proof of this" that you threw at me when I claimed that P&O were about to sell Adonia?

 

Peter

[picsa]

In your opinion as I will continue to say as there is no proof of this at all.

 

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So point to the facts.

 

Shall we hum to ourselves whilst we wait...

[Ranchi]

So presumably the waiters and cabin stewards will turn somersaults when you remove auto gratuities and personally tip them the equivalent amount. Seriously their reaction would go some way to supporting the scenario outlined by Picsa. I must admit that last year when I was on Oriana I felt a little mean not handing over an envelope to our waiters on the last night. The only saving grace being that I was still actually in the MDR unlike others who mysteriously had a hankering for the delights of the buffet for the final evening.

[daiB]

So point to the facts.

 

Shall we hum to ourselves whilst we wait...

It's your fantasy you provide the facts.

 

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[marylizcat]

To me, the ‘facts’ reported by the crew member in the deleted posts fit in exactly with the ‘facts’ stated by P&O themselves, so I am inclined to believe the scenario. Therefore it seems best to give up doing the auto-gratuities which I previously believed to be the right way to do things. It will indeed have to be cash from now onwards.

 

 

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[picsa]

It's your fantasy you provide the facts.

 

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Denial isn't just a river in Egypt.

[grapau27]

Denial isn't just a river in Egypt.

Thanks for the laugh.

[Ranchi]

So presumably the waiters and cabin stewards will turn somersaults when you remove auto gratuities and personally tip them the equivalent amount. Seriously their reaction would go some way to supporting the scenario outlined by Picsa. I must admit that last year when I was on Oriana I felt a little mean not handing over an envelope to our waiters on the last night. The only saving grace being that I was still actually in the MDR unlike others who mysteriously had a hankering for the delights of the buffet for the final evening.

I should add that we left auto gratuities on.

[Harry Peterson]

In your opinion as I will continue to say as there is no proof of this at all.

 

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There's enough evidence in this thread alone to establish the point beyond reasonable doubt for most of us.

 

Your approach, I'm afraid, reminds me of the line the tobacco companies used to take about the link between smoking and cancer - you can't prove it, so it isn't there. It's much the same with this - P&O are the only ones who can prove the point one way or the other, and they've chosen not to deny the two key points:

 

1 The voluntary auto-gratuities just go into a pool, along with the rest of the fares, from which to pay expenses, which include wages and bonuses. They aren't some sort of separate ring-fenced fund for the benefit of the staff - they're just part of the total take.

 

2 The staff bonuses etc are not affected by whether you choose to pay these voluntary payments or not - they depend wholly on performance, or rather feedback on performance.

 

If you choose to cling to the idea that you need proof, that's fine with the rest of us. We choose to take the most logical view, the one with the most evidence, the one which has led most of us, I think, to refuse to carry on paying P&O the voluntary contributions towards their operating costs.

 

P&O don't seem to want to contribute towards the running costs of my family, and I've chosen not to contribute towards the income of their Carnival shareholders.

 

We'll just have to agree to differ, won't we, because sometimes proof just isn't possible and we have to make decisions on the available evidence.

[daiB]

There's enough evidence in this thread alone to establish the point beyond reasonable doubt for most of us.

 

Your approach, I'm afraid, reminds me of the line the tobacco companies used to take about the link between smoking and cancer - you can't prove it, so it isn't there. It's much the same with this - P&O are the only ones who can prove the point one way or the other, and they've chosen not to deny the two key points:

 

1 The voluntary auto-gratuities just go into a pool, along with the rest of the fares, from which to pay expenses, which include wages and bonuses. They aren't some sort of separate ring-fenced fund for the benefit of the staff - they're just part of the total take.

 

2 The staff bonuses etc are not affected by whether you choose to pay these voluntary payments or not - they depend wholly on performance, or rather feedback on performance.

 

If you choose to cling to the idea that you need proof, that's fine with the rest of us. We choose to take the most logical view, the one with the most evidence, the one which has led most of us, I think, to refuse to carry on paying P&O the voluntary contributions towards their operating costs.

 

P&O don't seem to want to contribute towards the running costs of my family, and I've chosen not to contribute towards the income of their Carnival shareholders.

 

We'll just have to agree to differ, won't we, because sometimes proof just isn't possible and we have to make decisions on the available evidence.

That's the problem we have the lack of evidence. Just because some on here claim their view is fact does not make it fact. As said before people should just do what they think is right. Which for me is to pay the auto tips and add extra as a cash tip if I feel it appropriate.

 

My concern is the staff. Not cruisers and not P&O

 

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[picsa]

That's the problem we have the lack of evidence. Just because some on here claim their view is fact does not make it fact. As said before people should just do what they think is right. Which for me is to pay the auto tips and add extra as a cash tip if I feel it appropriate.

 

My concern is the staff. Not cruisers and not P&O

 

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The evidence is P&O themselves saying that removing the auto tips does not have any impact on what the staff get (a post about 5 pages back).

 

Don't believe that then speak to P&O yourself rather than spout your "that is your opinion" broken record.