Royal Caribbean's room rates discriminate wheelchair users

[Starry Eyes]

OTher cruiselines ave similar systems, so if Royal Caribbean is not legal, so are others. I’m not a US lawyer, nor is the OP, but I know there are many, many US lawyers (so many law schools cranking out new ones every single year!)...some lawyers are themselves disabled or have a disabled family member or friend. Others just hungry for cases. So, if there were a case here, I believe it would already have been filed. If the OP disagrees, he should seek legal help.

 

Or the OP could try to get that gty price as a previous poster suggested. Maybe some supervisor might submit if pushed. Of course, they’d probably get different cabins on the different legs of those b2b cruises, so they’d have that bother (just like the able bodied).And the cruiseline would not have to tell them their cabin number until the start to the cruise, so they’d have that stress (just like the able bodied). And, perhaps worst of all, if they give up those currently booked cabin in favor of a new booking at a lower rate, some other disabled person who was waiting might swoop in a grab one or more of those accessible cabins in the interim, destroying the OP’s carefully laid plans.

Many able bodied people do not think gty savings are worth the hassels/gambles involved; hard to see how it would be worth it here.

[Ourusualbeach]

Did you ever think that maybe RCI doesn't actually offer GTY bookings until such time as all the accessible staterooms are already booked?

 

They do. That is the OP’s issue. Also see post 96

[Starry Eyes]

They do. That is the OP’s issue. Also see post 96

Sometimes they do; often they don’t. Has the OP been specific on this point for their cruises? Was the gty rate available when the OP first booked the cabins? Or did the OP book the accessible cabin at the category rate (removing them from inventory for all others seeking such cabins) then later seek a price drop when a gty rate became available (when non-accessible cabin might only have remained in inventory)? Just curious.

[El Abuelo]

 

What can I do? Do these DoT rules apply even though the cruise was booked through the Swedish office?

Just to see if I understand, your opinion is that a discounted room option that is available to everyone should also be available to people requiring accessible accommodations. You are looking for validation, then advice on how to proceed. Presumably, the advice is how to force RCI to acknowledge your complaint is legitimate, and then actually offer you the pricing option you desire. So far, you're stuck on the validation part - there doesn't seem to be much buy-in.

 

Have you pursued this anywhere else, or just here at CruiseCritic? Have you filed any complaints with different gov't agencies or looked for organizations that assist individuals when dealing with regulatory compliance?

[setsail]

Yes, the lawyer option is prohibitively expensive. But that doesn't mean they're right. It just means that there's no way for me to challenge them.

 

So why are you telling us, a message board and people that have nothing to do with running the cruise line?

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1664043

Edited July 15, 2018 by setsail

[time4u2go]

So why are you telling us, a message board and people that have nothing to do with running the cruise line?

I agree. OP states their situation. People weigh in with their opinions. OP argues with those that don't agree, but they won't seek out legal assistance. Not sure what they want or expect to happen.

[Charles4515]

Did you ever think that maybe RCI doesn't actually offer GTY bookings until such time as all the accessible staterooms are already booked?

 

If that is true how did I end up assigned to accessible cabins twice when I booked GTY?

 

I think OP is wrong, but they could book GTY and there would be a chance they were assigned an accessible cabin. Same chance as anyone else who booked a GTY.......

[ludde]

Just to see if I understand, your opinion is that a discounted room option that is available to everyone should also be available to people requiring accessible accommodations. You are looking for validation, then advice on how to proceed. Presumably, the advice is how to force RCI to acknowledge your complaint is legitimate, and then actually offer you the pricing option you desire. So far, you're stuck on the validation part - there doesn't seem to be much buy-in.

Correct.

 

Have you pursued this anywhere else, or just here at CruiseCritic? Have you filed any complaints with different gov't agencies or looked for organizations that assist individuals when dealing with regulatory compliance?

Not yet, but it's a bit complicated to know who to ask since I'm in Sweden and the ship is in the US. I emailed RCCL again but didn't get a reply yet.

[ludde]

If that is true how did I end up assigned to accessible cabins twice when I booked GTY?

 

I think OP is wrong, but they could book GTY and there would be a chance they were assigned an accessible cabin. Same chance as anyone else who booked a GTY.......

 

Could I? What happens then if I get a regular cabin where my wheelchair can't even fit through the door. Do you really believe yourself that your suggestion makes sense...?!

[Paulxyz2004]

Correct.

 

 

Not yet, but it's a bit complicated to know who to ask since I'm in Sweden and the ship is in the US. I emailed RCCL again but didn't get a reply yet.

 

As you´ve been told before you need to contact RCI in Sweden (could be Norway as well, as I seem to recall their Scandinavian Office is in Norway - but this information should be on the swedish website). Of course you can´t claim US rules to be applied to your booking, as it was made under the T&C´s of Sweden. So you need to find out if your case of "discrimination" still holds water under swedish / european ruling. Any US rules hold no water for a swedish booking, if you wnat them applied book in the US.

[ludde]

Ludde, have you contacted Special Needs and talked with the supervisor? It has been three or four years ago, but we have, coordinating with Special Needs, on two occasions booked an accessible cabin using a guarantee rate--this was for balcony category and there were several left on the ship. Special Needs immediately randomly assigned one of the accessible balcony cabins per our guarantee booking (the immediate assignment often happens with non accessible cabins).

Thanks for your insighful post. I'll try contacting them. Unfortunately they don't seem to have an email, only phone.

 

 

I know that on several ships some of the decks which are inaccessible or inaccessible second floor of lounges really can't be changed without significant construction (and we wouldn't expect this), but things like pool lifts can be added relatively easily and policies can also be changed re the disabled. More people just need to express this to Royal Caribbean mgt.

On one of the smaller ships (I think it was vision) the lounge was a staircase up. They arranged so I could enjoy lounge privileges in the bar on the floor below.

[Paulxyz2004]

Could I? What happens then if I get a regular cabin where my wheelchair can't even fit through the door. Do you really believe yourself that your suggestion makes sense...?!

 

It makes as much sense as your thought of discrimination. The nature of a guarantee is not knowing what kind of cabin you get, besides getting a minimum standard described in the GTY T&C´s. If you want a specific cabin like hump location, aft location, midship, low deck, high deck, accessible, obstructed, unobstructed, ..... you shouldn´t book a guarantee.

 

The point is you are not denied booking a guarantee, it just does not fit your personal needs.

But hey this is just something that has been explained to you a dozen or more times on this thread and you won´t understand it this time either, so as I said earlier as well, go and seek legal advice in the matter.It´s nothing to be resolved on CC and nothing posted on here will help you in your discussion with RCI either, nor will it help you in court.

[ludde]

As you´ve been told before you need to contact RCI in Sweden (could be Norway as well, as I seem to recall their Scandinavian Office is in Norway - but this information should be on the swedish website). Of course you can´t claim US rules to be applied to your booking, as it was made under the T&C´s of Sweden. So you need to find out if your case of "discrimination" still holds water under swedish / european ruling. Any US rules hold no water for a swedish booking, if you wnat them applied book in the US.

Of course I can't claim that I want their american T&C - but anti-discrimination is a law, it's not a part of their T&C. Many laws apply also to tourists. Europe has a similar phrasing in the european anti discrimination law, valid on european cruises, that all offers need to be offered also to people requiring accessible accommodation.

 

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/ALL/?uri=CELEX:32010R1177

 

‘disabled person’ or ‘person with reduced mobility’ means any person whose mobility when using transport is reduced as a result of any physical disability (sensory or locomotor, permanent or temporary), intellectual disability or impairment, or any other cause of disability, or as a result of age, and whose situation needs appropriate attention and adaptation to his particular needs of the service made available to all passengers;

2. Reservations and tickets shall be offered to disabled persons and persons with reduced mobility at no additional cost under the same conditions that apply to all other passengers.

[ludde]

It makes as much sense as your thought of discrimination. The nature of a guarantee is not knowing what kind of cabin you get, besides getting a minimum standard described in the GTY T&C´s. If you want a specific cabin like hump location, aft location, midship, low deck, high deck, accessible, obstructed, unobstructed, ..... you shouldn´t book a guarantee.

Not getting a midship or high deck room or unobstructed room is not covered by any anti-discrimination law.

Being provided an accessible room if you need one is.

[Charles4515]

Could I? What happens then if I get a regular cabin where my wheelchair can't even fit through the door. Do you really believe yourself that your suggestion makes sense...?!

 

 

 

I didn’t make a suggestion that you book a GTY. My reply was to the other persons assertion that there would not actually be accessible cabins available that are assigned to passengers who book GTY. My suggestion to you is to book an assigned cabin if you must have one where your wheelchair fits thru the door.

[RocketMan275]

2. Reservations and tickets shall be offered to disabled persons and persons with reduced mobility at no additional cost under the same conditions that apply to all other passengers.

 

You are trying to get special conditions that other passengers do not get, ie, getting to choose your room while booking a guarantee.

[JoyMouse]

You are trying to get special conditions that other passengers do not get, ie, getting to choose your room while booking a guarantee.

 

 

 

Well said.

 

 

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[A&L_Ont]

Not getting a midship or high deck room or unobstructed room is not covered by any anti-discrimination law.

Being provided an accessible room if you need one is.

 

If all accessible rooms are booked you can not get one, guaranteed or not. Book the cabin you want/need and watch for price drops. It is no different than someone who wants a bump, corner aft, or suite.

 

After that fight it out with RC Sweden and see what happens. Posting and disagreeing with others here isn’t going to help you any, unless you just want to waste your day. If you don’t get what pleases you, cancel before final payment.

[ludde]

You are trying to get special conditions that other passengers do not get, ie, getting to choose your room while booking a guarantee.

 

"whose situation needs appropriate attention and adaptation to his particular needs of the service made available to all passengers"

They are required to adapt the service to match my needs. I don't want to pick the room myself, I'm fine with any room anywhere, as long as the room is adapted to my needs so I can get in through the door.

Combining the two sentences:

2. Reservations and tickets shall be offered to disabled persons and persons with reduced mobility at no additional cost under the same conditions that apply to all other passengers, and the reservations and tickets need to be adapted to fit the person's disability needs.

Anyway that quote is from the EU law so it doesn't really apply to this cruise.

Edited July 15, 2018 by ludde

[Cauzneffct]

Anyone have a ballpark ratio of, say, accessible insides/total insides?

 

 

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[time4u2go]

If all accessible rooms are booked you can not get one, guaranteed or not. Book the cabin you want/need and watch for price drops. It is no different than someone who wants a bump, corner aft, or suite.

 

After that fight it out with RC Sweden and see what happens. Posting and disagreeing with others here isn’t going to help you any, unless you just want to waste your day. If you don’t get what pleases you, cancel before final payment.

Well said.

[ludde]

Anyone have a ballpark ratio of, say, accessible insides/total insides?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

Here's the accessible room list on Oasis

http://www.royalcaribbean.com/findacruise/ports/accessibilityFeatures.do?pagename=accessible_staterooms_popup_OA

[ludde]

Well said.

I'm inclined to agree. I was expecting something different from the forum.

[time4u2go]

I'm inclined to agree. I was expecting something different from the forum.

Yet you keep doing it! :confused:

[chengkp75]

As you´ve been told before you need to contact RCI in Sweden (could be Norway as well, as I seem to recall their Scandinavian Office is in Norway - but this information should be on the swedish website). Of course you can´t claim US rules to be applied to your booking, as it was made under the T&C´s of Sweden. So you need to find out if your case of "discrimination" still holds water under swedish / european ruling. Any US rules hold no water for a swedish booking, if you wnat them applied book in the US.

 

Yep, what the OP conveniently skips over in the quotes from the Federal Register the OP keeps using is that this applies to the sale of the cabin, not in where the accommodation is provided, i.e. in the US the sale price of cabins must meet the DOT regulations. But the OP has a booking with a foreign subsidiary of RCI, so the laws of that nation would apply to whether or not this is discrimination.

 

I looked at Sweden's Discrimination Act, and found this interesting:

 

"Section 12 cThe prohibition of discrimination in the form of inadequate accessibility inSection 12, first paragraph, point 1 does not apply1. with regard to housing"

 

Looking into it, the EU states that any discrimination definition is the responsibility of each member nation, so again, the country where the booking took place is the one whose laws on discrimination would apply.