Royal Caribbean's room rates discriminate wheelchair users

[ludde]

No, RCI offers a reduced rate GTY pricing to "normal" passengers, and also offers that same reduced rate GTY pricing to a person requiring an accessible cabin.

No, people that require an accessible cabin can not book GTY and get an accessible cabin.

 

 

However, the rules of GTY is that, as others have stated, the cabin you get under GTY pricing is whatever RCI decides to give you, you cannot specify any specific cabin within a given category.

I understand this is their policy and I understand how their policy works, what I'm trying to say is that this policy is illegal because there are laws regulating discrimination against disabled people.

 

Further, reading the document linked, you conveniently left out this part:

"PVOs may not charge higher fares to passengers with disabilities than to other passengers." The price to pick a specific cabin is the same whether you are able bodied or not.

I don't need a specific cabin. I want them to honor my legal right to provide me with an accessible stateroom anywhere on the ship at an identical price as the price I could have got if I didn't have a wheelchair. There are plenty of laws controlling accessibility so it's not comparable to the other cases discussed in this thread where people want to pick the rooms themselves.

 

The portion you quoted applies to a situation where you are requesting an accessible cabin of a certain type (oceanview), and the ship only has accessible balcony cabins. Then you would be entitled to a balcony cabin at an oceanview price. This only applies if there are no cabins of the type you wish physically on the ship, not if they are all booked.

There exist no cabins of the GTY price class that are bookable by wheelchairs, so following the same logic you just said, they have to find an accessible room and offer it to me at the same GTY price.

 

Finally, there is some wiggle room here, in that not all of the ADA applies to foreign flag cruise ships. In its decision in Spector v. NCL, the SCOTUS ruled that the ADA does not apply to a foreign flag ship's "internal policies and procedures", and you would need a legal consultation to determine if this falls under "internal policies and procedures".

That's interesting, but I doubt that selling cruise tickets to passengers counts as internal policies.. But I don't know.

[mdsgu]

Wait....you're not a US citizen, booking a trip from Sweden, planning to travel on a non-US-flagged vessel, and you want to invoke US law?

 

Go ahead and find yourself a lawyer. I'm sure you'll spend many times that $1000 difference only to find out there's no court willing to even hear the case because the jurisdiction would be so difficult, if not impossible, to figure out.

[time4u2go]

No, people that require an accessible cabin can not book GTY and get an accessible cabin.

 

Yes they can. They aren't guaranteed to get one, but they might get one. I realize that doesn't help your situation, but to say they can not get one is incorrect.

[PhoenixCruiser]

Please let us know how this works out for you...

[roadburner]

By the time the cruise line opens for guaranteed cabin pricing, the handicap accessible cabins are usually long gone. We often book immediately upon the opening of a cruise to be sure to get an accessible room. They can be gone within a week or two and none come available until final payment is required. Any that come available on that date are snapped up by travel agents that are on the phone looking for one. They never make it to the guarantee pool. You’re beating a dead horse.

[Ourusualbeach]

Lidde, so far you have totally ignored every single post that has pointed out that this is not a new practice and that if it were illegal then surely one of the dozens of lawyers who love to sue cruise lines would have already brought suit against them and this practice would have stopped.

 

Given that this practice is still continuing must tell you that you don’t have a case. If you feel you do have a case the only way you are going to find out if you are correct in your belief is to contact a lawyer.

 

Basically it boils down to put up or shut up. Crying the blues on an Internet forum won’t do a bit of good.

[ludde]

Wait....you're not a US citizen, booking a trip from Sweden, planning to travel on a non-US-flagged vessel, and you want to invoke US law?

 

Go ahead and find yourself a lawyer. I'm sure you'll spend many times that $1000 difference only to find out there's no court willing to even hear the case because the jurisdiction would be so difficult, if not impossible, to figure out.

 

Yes, the lawyer option is prohibitively expensive. But that doesn't mean they're right. It just means that there's no way for me to challenge them.

[Ourusualbeach]

Yes, the lawyer option is prohibitively expensive. But that doesn't mean they're right. It just means that there's no way for me to challenge them.

There’s lots of lawyers always looking for a good case against a cruise line who will work on a contingency basis. (Provided they think you have a case)

[ludde]

Lidde, so far you have totally ignored every single post that has pointed out that this is not a new practice and that if it were illegal then surely one of the dozens of lawyers who love to sue cruise lines would have already brought suit against them and this practice would have stopped.

 

I did not ignore them, but I think those lawyers care more about big physical injuries suits and they wouldn't even want to touch a $1000 case.

[GUT2407]

The DoT PDF I linked above says:

"passengers requiring an accessible cabin should be provided the same pricing options available to passengers who do not require an accessible cabin"

This means that if Royal Caribbean offers a reduced rate GTY pricing option to normal passengers, they need to offer the same pricing option to people requiring an accessible stateroom.

Am I the only one reading that this way?

 

 

No you’re Ute not, and I’ll add it’s not just a Royal Carribean, it’s all the lines.

 

Plus the accessible cabins are only in certain categories.

 

Ie NCL Jewel only balconies are B.B. second highest category balcony, no BF or any other class.

[Ourusualbeach]

I did not ignore them, but I think those lawyers care more about big physical injuries suits and they wouldn't even want to touch a $1000 case.

If it’s discrimination it’s more than just your case, it’s a class action for big $ ( if they think you have a case)

[actuarian]

I think that the OP does have a point, even though it was obscured by the mention of guarantee cabins. It is simply unreasonable to expect accessible cabins to be bookable as guarantees; most of the time they are all booked by the time guarantee cabins are first offered. Nevertheless, cruise lines have recently been coming up with other ways to force people booking an accessible cabin to pay more than people who do not need an accessible cabin. For example, all accessible Oceanview cabins on the Enchantment of the Seas have been recently recategorized to 1M while non-accessible Oceanview cabins on the same ship are in less expensive categories 1N, 2N, 3N and 6N. This seems like a way to make handicapped people pay for the extra space taken by their cabins and could be interpreted to violate the laws quoted by the OP.

[maria1122]

LUDDE

 

I have always checked the little box and get the message that none are available. I just get so angered when people book the handicapped rooms just to get the bigger space.

[PhoenixCruiser]

We booked our December Symphony cruise on February 5th and all of the accessible cabins were already taken.

 

Edited to add - we were NOT looking for extra space my husband has mobility issues so I check on a daily basis

[GUT2407]

We booked our December Symphony cruise on February 5th and all of the accessible cabins were already taken.

I tried to book a circumnavigation of Australia for Feb, 2020, no accessible cabins available.

[RDC1]

Because they pick up passengers at a US port.

 

From the PDF:

 

(b) If you are the PVO of a foreign-flag passenger vessel, this Part applies to you only if your vessel picks up passengers at a port in the United States, its territories, possessions, or commonwealths.

 

 

If you think your case has merit, try an find an attorney that will agree with you. I doubt you will find one.

 

Apparently the cruise line legal departments (since pretty much all of the mainstream cruise lines have the same practice) disagree with you. And apparently so does the government and the courts since no one in all of the years this practice has been in place has gotten a ruling against the current practice.

 

There was a consent decree in 2015 that resulted in CCL updating some practices that dealt with the number of cabins and training of personnel. However, as far as reservations it only stated

 

• Reservations systems will allow individuals with disabilities to reserve accessible cabins and suites with specific available options and amenities, and to guarantee reservations for accessible cabins;
  

which the cruise lines are in compliance with you can reserve accessible cabins. Which you get at the same fare as anyone else selecting a cabin in the similar class.

[Goodtime Cruizin]

The DoT PDF I linked above says:

"passengers requiring an accessible cabin should be provided the same pricing options available to passengers who do not require an accessible cabin"

This means that if Royal Caribbean offers a reduced rate GTY pricing option to normal passengers, they need to offer the same pricing option to people requiring an accessible stateroom.

Am I the only one reading that this way?

 

This is BS. If you want a specific cabin book it. If I wanted 1100 corner aft balcony, I book it. If I book a GTY cabin and don't 1100, I can't complain. I had the opportunity.

[knon24]

This entire thread is sad. The real point is even if this is "just how it is" and OP "doesn't have a case", it's not fair and it sucks for disabled people. It's very ignorant to think that choosing an accessible cabin is like choosing a class or type of cabin. An accessible cabin is not a type of cabin.. it's a cabin. There SHOULD be accessible cabins in every class that has non-accessible cabins but there isn't. It is what it is. Not offering the same deal to disabled people that they offer to able-bodied people simply because they are disabled does feel like discrimination, regardless if there's really an unlawful case there.

[GUT2407]

This entire thread is sad. The real point is even if this is "just how it is" and OP "doesn't have a case", it's not fair and it sucks for disabled people. It's very ignorant to think that choosing an accessible cabin is like choosing a class or type of cabin. An accessible cabin is not a type of cabin.. it's a cabin. There SHOULD be accessible cabins in every class that has non-accessible cabins but there isn't. It is what it is. Not offering the same deal to disabled people that they offer to able-bodied people simply because they are disabled does feel like discrimination, regardless if there's really an unlawful case there.

 

 

The really sad bit is how many don’t seem to grasp that fact.

[joelheather]

Best of luck on your lawsuit. Looks like you got em!!!

Slightly entitled, are we?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

[montgomeryfamily]

Ludde, have you contacted Special Needs and talked with the supervisor? It has been three or four years ago, but we have, coordinating with Special Needs, on two occasions booked an accessible cabin using a guarantee rate--this was for balcony category and there were several left on the ship. Special Needs immediately randomly assigned one of the accessible balcony cabins per our guarantee booking (the immediate assignment often happens with non accessible cabins).

 

We haven't tried it on any subsequent bookings because as many have mentioned, there often aren't any accessible rooms in the category we want or there is no guarantee rate at the time we do find an accessible cabin on the sailing we want. So I don't know if they are amenable to still doing this, but you can try it if you want. It does take some time and the rooms are not held, so it is possible you could lose the rooms by trying this if all of the rooms are booked while this process is ongoing.

 

You do not have to hire an attorney. You can make a complaint directly to the Department of Justice. There is a special section which deals with disability complaints. This would probably be more effective anyway than trying to take a case to court yourself.

 

I agree that it seems that Royal Caribbean often does not consider disabled when making some of their policies or putting in facilities. Only the Oasis class has a wheelchair accessible suite higher than JS, so, especially with the phase out of the Concierge Lounge, disabled passengers are being excluded from the replacement Suite Lounge. There is only one wheelchair pool lift on any ship, even the Oasis class with many pools, and there is only one lift into one hot tub (and never a covered solarium hot tub) no matter how many hot tubs on the ship. And if the lift isn't working, then no swimming or hot tub on the cruise for the passengers who need a lift.

 

I know that on several ships some of the decks which are inaccessible or inaccessible second floor of lounges really can't be changed without significant construction (and we wouldn't expect this), but things like pool lifts can be added relatively easily and policies can also be changed re the disabled. More people just need to express this to Royal Caribbean mgt.

Edited July 15, 2018 by montgomeryfamily

[spookwife]

This entire thread is sad. The real point is even if this is "just how it is" and OP "doesn't have a case", it's not fair and it sucks for disabled people. It's very ignorant to think that choosing an accessible cabin is like choosing a class or type of cabin. An accessible cabin is not a type of cabin.. it's a cabin. There SHOULD be accessible cabins in every class that has non-accessible cabins but there isn't. It is what it is. Not offering the same deal to disabled people that they offer to able-bodied people simply because they are disabled does feel like discrimination, regardless if there's really an unlawful case there.

 

 

as a former full time WC user, have to ask , why do you think that? every single cabin category is/was available to me. if I wanted specific amenities, that was my problem to deal with the restrictions that caused. . its no different than wanting a 4th floor garden view room versus a 4th floor pool side view room at Disney. one costs more than the other. I now book Owner's suites as they have the larger shower without the deep as hell tub to crawl in and out of. why should I demand to get it at the same price as a Grand suite just because I am disabled and can't lift my leg(hip) over the side of the tub? or even the same price as balcony because I kinda sorta need the larger shower stall?

[Balsam12]

Did you ever think that maybe RCI doesn't actually offer GTY bookings until such time as all the accessible staterooms are already booked?

[RocketMan275]

This entire thread is sad. The real point is even if this is "just how it is" and OP "doesn't have a case", it's not fair and it sucks for disabled people. It's very ignorant to think that choosing an accessible cabin is like choosing a class or type of cabin. An accessible cabin is not a type of cabin.. it's a cabin. There SHOULD be accessible cabins in every class that has non-accessible cabins but there isn't. It is what it is. Not offering the same deal to disabled people that they offer to able-bodied people simply because they are disabled does feel like discrimination, regardless if there's really an unlawful case there.

 

OP claims this fits the legal definition of discrimination. Obviously, it does not. Whether this policy should be changed is another question.

[Biker19]