General question about excursions and ETA/ETDs of boats

[Playtennis]

Next year DW and I will be taking our first river cruise, Avalon's "Grand France" which sails the Seine & the Saône.  Our experience with excursions on sea cruises is mixed, some good, some no so.  We are also accustomed to arranging our own excursions that have ranged from tours in Russia to SCUBA diving in the Caribbean - usually including a group of fellow cruisers.  As most, the objective is to enjoy the sites and experiences in each port as much as possible.

In order to maximize time and attempt to get the best tours we can (private events) it is important to know when the boat will be docked and the start times & lengths of included (or optional) excursion.  I know that the exact time of arrival/departure cannot be pinned down BUT it would be great to get a general idea of when boats typically arrive/depart a stop as well as a general idea of when excisions start and how long they last.

Can anyone help with this?

(BTW I ask this now, a good 12 months before our trip, because if in my research a great private excursion is found I will book it as early as possible...well before Avalon reveals their details)

Thank you. Or should I say, Merci beaucoup. 

Edited February 16, 2019 by Playtennis
misspelling

[TravelerThom]

In perhaps 70 ocean cruises I have taken a total of two (2) ship tours, otherwise making other arrangements (shared locally owned tours arranged either here on CC Roll Calls or at the curb, self drive car rentals, local public transportation, walking, etc) myself. 

 

Based on 25 river cruises, It it is common for river boats to cruise at night and dock before breakfast; typical breakfast starting hours are 7-8:30 with boat tours departing about 9am. When there is daylight sailing boat tours will leave about half an hour after docking. Where you are docked in town (more often than not) the boat tour will often be a relatively slow paced walk around town discussing some local history and pointing out major sights; after maybe an hour at some central point (eg town square) the formal tour will end and you will have free time to shop, have a coffee, go into attractions or whatever. Your guide will give direction on getting back to the boat and perhaps walk back with you if you want to immediately return to the boat. Note that sometimes (especially if a bus ride into town is involved) the boat might move from one docking area to another.  IMO the boat tours are pretty good and the only reason I’d do a private tour would be for the smaller group size or if there is something special to you (I have rented a car to drive to a village that some of my ancestors left in 1744). 

 

Thom

[dogs4fun]

Agree with the post above, Additionally, if you are looking for fellow cruisemates to join a private tour .... this is feasible on large ocean ships but not on small river boats (usually less than 150 passengers onboard).

On our last river cruise, we opted to DIY and dump the included tours of Linz (we opted to take the train to Salzburg) and Vienna (we wanted to maximize our 1.5 days here & get an early start in the morning).

[Playtennis]

TravelerThom,

Thank you!  You hit the nail on the head with just the info I was looking for.  We too rarely signed up for our ship's excursions as they usually were larger groups and very slow paced.  Also knowing that the boat's tours were typically in the AM means that we can plan something for the afternoon if we so desire.  

Dogs4fun,

I thought that it would be more difficult to find fellow passengers because of the boat's size and the fact that excursions were included.  Last year we took a Viking Ocean cruise on a ship with 800+ passengers.  If memory serves, there were about a dozen or so that joined the CC roll call and even then the conversations weren't as we had expected. I would say that's because most of the passengers had been Viking River Cruisers and not accustomed to the advantages of the roll call and CC blogs and the fact that tours were included.

Thanks to both of you.

Keith & Diane

Charleston, SC 

[FuelScience]

Playtennis,

 

Are you sailing the Rhone/Saone northbound or southbound. If you're headed northbound (Arles to St. Jean de Losne), I can point you to the dailies from our 2017 cruise. That would give you an idea of port times, assuming that Avalon hasn't made major changes.

[Roz]

You've received some good advice.  I've never sailed Avalon; are tours included?  If so, I'd recommend taking them since river cruises are pricey already.  There will be free time while in port.  For instance, when we were in Vienna, I did the included Do As the Local do walking tour which included stopping at a local café for coffee and pastry.  When we came back to the ship,  2 other ladies and myself had the front desk call a cab for us to take us to the Belvedere art museum.  

 

You'll find river cruising to be quite different than ocean cruising.

 

Roz

[franski]

We have done both legs of that itinerary with Avalon - but on 2 separate occasions.  Your best indication of timing is in the generic discussion on "day to day" (ie: morning excursion, set sail over lunch, enjoy time in town etc...).  Be aware, however, that there are many circumstances that are beyond the control of the cruise line.  One thing is the docking location - as this is identified by the harbour master in each town.   If there is something you really want to do as a private tour - and are worried it will "sell out" - perhaps look at booking something that is refundable.    Another option is to contact Avalon - they will be able to give you a rough estimate of time sailing/time in port etc.   

 

One fun thing we did in Tain l'Hermitage was to visit the Valrhona store.  It was a short walk from the boat - and we figured we would bypass the walking tour of Tournon to shop for chocolate!!  Lots of free tasting - and we were able to pick up chocolate to bring home as gifts.

 

One tour we did in Paris was a "Beneath the Eiffel Tower" tour.  We walked to the Eiffel Tower from the boat - and the tour took us under the tower to see how the elevators work.  Quite interesting.  You then go up to the 1st level - and the guide has keys to the back stairway of the Jules Verne restaurant - so we were on top of the restaurant overlooking the Seine.  Just about 8 of us - so not crowded. 

 

In Rouen - they have just (within the last year or two) opened a new Joan of Arc museum.  It is at the back of the Rouen cathedral - sort of an interactive computer based excursion. We had been to Rouen before, so opted not to do their included walking tour.  

 

We were pleased with Avalon's tours...  We usually only tend to look at DIY if we have already visited a port.  Enjoy!!

 

Fran

[Host Jazzbeau]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is that river cruise excursions generally use the QuietVox [or similar] system where the guide has a microphone/transmitter and each passenger has a receiver with earbud.  This makes the experience of walking tours completely different to ocean cruise excursions.  Like Thom we rarely take ocean ship excursions [and generally regret it when we do], but on all our river cruises we have done the included ones and felt that we did 'enjoy the sites and experiences in each port as much as possible' – especially since we used the free time to cover the few additional spots that my research had identified.  There is very little wasted time on river cruise excursions, so you don't get the 'efficiency bump' you are used to on ocean cruises.

[Playtennis]

18 hours ago, FuelScience said:

Playtennis,

 

Are you sailing the Rhone/Saone northbound or southbound. If you're headed northbound (Arles to St. Jean de Losne), I can point you to the dailies from our 2017 cruise. That would give you an idea of port times, assuming that Avalon hasn't made major changes.

Fuel Science,

Thanks for the offer of the dailies.  Love to see them.  We are traveling southbound. The cruise starts in Paris goes north on the Seine to Caudebec (we WILL visit the Normandy Beaches), back to Paris and then change to the Saône River finishing up in Arles.

Cites/towns where we stop are::  Vernon, Caudebec, Rouen, Conflans, Mâcon, Lyon, Tournon-Viviers, Avignon and Arles.

Whether the dailies are for those exact stop or not, they would be worth seeing.

Thanks.

Keith

PS: I'm glad to see the level of replies on this blog.  I can't find section where river cruise lines' blog can be found nor roll calls for individual river cruises.  On our ocean cruises we got to know a number of fellow passengers before we even set foot on the ship!

[gnome12]

1 minute ago, Playtennis said:

PS: I'm glad to see the level of replies on this blog.  I can't find section where river cruise lines' blog can be found nor roll calls for individual river cruises.  On our ocean cruises we got to know a number of fellow passengers before we even set foot on the ship!

Remember that you have fewer than 200 passengers on a river cruise, in many cases considerably fewer. The chance of finding someone on your sailing are very slim.

 

In addition, many people join roll calls to arrange excursions; when excursions are included there is less need for a roll call.

 

As to excursions, my suggestion is to do some research as to what there is to see in each town, so that when you get free time you will have a good idea of what to do with it. In addition, if there is something that you really want to see, you can skip the included excursion to do it. Just remember that the ship might move during the excursion; make sure that you know where to go when you are done.

[FuelScience]

1 hour ago, Playtennis said:

Fuel Science,

Thanks for the offer of the dailies.  Love to see them.

Here's the link for the dailies. Let me know if it doesn't work.

 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0nz16ahW1fiaE9FVGtxbEpoWjA

 

I second franski's suggestion for visiting the Valrhona chocolate store. If I remember correctly, it's about a mile walk from the ship's docking site, but easily doable in the time we had there. Let me mention one more thing. If there are optional excursions that you really want to do, you should book them ahead of time. It may have changed, but when we sailed the Rhone, Avalon had to have a certain number of people sign up for an optional tour in order for it to take place. If not enough people signed up, the tour was cancelled. The exception was for tours where people had signed up before the cruise. Those tours went ahead regardless of how many people had signed up. So if it's a must see, sign up before the cruise.

[Playtennis]

Fuelscience,

The link to the dailies did work.  Great stuff.

I want to make sure I understand your comments about the optional cruises...by "...The exception was for tours where people had signed up before the cruise..." do you mean before we board?

BTW - I take it that you are are chemical engineer.

 

[Host Jazzbeau]

Our ship excursion in Tournon was a walk across the river to Tain-l'Hermitage and the vineyards and tasting room of M.Chapoutier.  At the end the guide gave us directions to the Valrhona chocolate museum and tasting room, which was only a short detour on the way back to the boat.  Wine and chocolate: heaven!

 

[luv2travel90266]

Unlike ocean tours river tours tend to be shorter distances between ports. If you decide not to avail yourself of the cruiselines tours you can always hire a private tour and end the tour at the next cruise stop. I have done some biking along the rivers and canals and quite often have beaten the ship to the days destination finding a pub near by. When on ocean tours we also create our own daily excursions. On river cruises my experience has been mostly on Uniworld with the groups averaging around 20 persons. 

[Playtennis]

3 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

Our ship excursion in Tournon was a walk across the river to Tain-l'Hermitage and the vineyards and tasting room of M.Chapoutier.  At the end the guide gave us directions to the Valrhona chocolate museum and tasting room, which was only a short detour on the way back to the boat.  Wine and chocolate: heaven!

 

Choc-lat!!

[FuelScience]

So if you make your reservation for an optional tour on Avalon's web site or through a travel agent and prepay before the cruise starts, that tour is guaranteed to happen. Even if you're the only one signed up. If no one had signed up for an optional tour before the cruise and just a few signed up on the ship, then the tour wouldn't happen. I don't remember what the minimum number was. So again, if there's a must see tour, like the Pont du Gard, you should sign up before you leave. This policy may have changed, but that's the way it was in 2017.

[FuelScience]

4 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

Our ship excursion in Tournon was a walk across the river to Tain-l'Hermitage and the vineyards and tasting room of M.Chapoutier.  At the end the guide gave us directions to the Valrhona chocolate museum and tasting room, which was only a short detour on the way back to the boat.  Wine and chocolate: heaven!

 

For whatever reason, Avalon doesn't spend much time in Tournon. We docked there in the middle of the night. The walking tour began at 8:30, and the ship set sail for Vienne at 10:15. I was at the chocolate shop when it opened at 9:00 and got my shopping done in plenty of time to make it back to the ship. DW took the walking tour and wasn't overly impressed, but I gave her chocolate and that helped her mood!

 

For Playtennis's southbound trip it looks similar. They have the morning in Tain/Tournon and then sail to Viviers for an afternoon tour there.

[franski]

I was impressed with the way that Avalon dealt with optional excursions on this itinerary.  The Pont du Gard was an optional, but it was in the morning - the same time as the included excursion to the Palace of the Popes.  We thought we would have to choose, but it turned out that if you booked the optional, they offered the included excursion again in the afternoon. 

 

Fran

[jklc123]

Playtennis, welcome to river cruising!

 

Another thing to be aware of is that low or high water levels can drastically change itineraries and arrival and departure times, such as the havoc last year with low water levels on the Rhine and Danube especially. We have had high or rising water levels affect two of our seven river cruises. For example, at a port on the Danube (Durnstein) we were going to stay onshore for dinner at an interesting looking restaurant as the ship was to sail about 9 pm. Luckily we decided to return to the ship for dinner, when the ship suddenly had to leave about 7 pm to get under bridges due to rapidly rising water. We bypassed Vienna and had to dock in Bratislava, returning by bus to Vienna for much less time there. An extra day was added to Budapest. High water also greatly affected our cruise on the Rhone. So....yes, research the ports you will visit but if you book private tours, be sure you can cancel them if Mother Nature affects your schedule!

 

PS I still look for Valrhona chocolates after visiting the factory there. We also had plenty of time to walk there during free time.

[Playtennis]

Thanks to all for your suggestions and advice.  

The one challenge that I didn't factor in was the change in river level.  One itch in the back of my mind on that  would be - does the boat try and reach the passengers if the craft needs to sail early?  It seems that one could inadvertently get caught ashore which may necessitate getting to the next port-of-call on your own.

[Roz]

On Uniworld we were told the ship would be leaving without us before we got off.  Last November we made it all the way from Amsterdam to Basel without hotel overnights, but it involved several itinerary changes. It would have been difficult for someone doing their own thing. Something to think about. 

 

Roz 

[jklc123]

Playtennis, welcome to river cruising!

 

Another thing to be aware of is that low or high water levels can drastically change itineraries and arrival and departure times, such as the havoc last year with low water levels on the Rhine and Danube especially. We have had high or rising water levels affect two of our seven river cruises. For example, at a port on the Danube (Durnstein) we were going to stay onshore for dinner at an interesting looking restaurant as the ship was to sail about 9 pm. Luckily we decided to return to the ship for dinner, when the ship suddenly had to leave about 7 pm to get under bridges due to rapidly rising water. We bypassed Vienna and had to dock in Bratislava, returning by bus to Vienna for much less time there. An extra day was added to Budapest. High water also greatly affected our cruise on the Rhone. So....yes, research the ports you will visit but if you book private tours, be sure you can cancel them if Mother Nature affects your schedule!

 

PS I still look for Valrhona chocolates after visiting the factory there. We also had plenty of time to walk there during free time.

[jklc123]

We are always warned to be back or the ship goes without you. They really can't wait. You might be able to leave your cell number if off on your own in case of a departure change -- wouldn't hurt to ask. 

[Playtennis]

23 minutes ago, jklc123 said:

We are always warned to be back or the ship goes without you. They really can't wait. You might be able to leave your cell number if off on your own in case of a departure change -- wouldn't hurt to ask. 

I can understand that if you are not back to the boat AT THE TIME THE BOAT HAS SPECIFIED it's your problem.  However, if they leave early without a warning (notice on the MyAvalon, text, email) then the onus is on them.  Otherwise one would feel it prudent to contact the boat every hour or so.

[Kenster]

We've done three Avalons in the last four years and will be doing our fourth in October.  There is an included tour pretty much every day- all excellent but easy to sneak away if you want to.  We usually do a couple of optionals on each tour.  The quality has always been top notch and worth a wee bit of premium for the convenience, as well as the knowledge that the boat ain't going nowhere without us!   I'd be very afraid of going off on our own and  missing the boat, or pre-paying for an expensive option and having to miss it because the boat's schedule had to be changed for whatever reason.  Also, you never know where the boat is going to dock.  It may be pretty far away from where your independently booked tour is starting or ending.  AND... what if you booked your own tour only to find out that the rest of the ship is meeting the boat 30 miles downriver at the end of the boat's tour? 

 

Lots of things to consider.  I'm not sure it's worth it to save a few bucks.