Oasis incident at Freeport Shipyard

[Pratique]

[fsjosh]

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Well, to build a floating dock, you would have to go to one of the larger graving docks, not sure which in Europe would be capable, since the dock has to be larger than the largest ship to fit into it, but there are a couple in China, and then tow it across to wherever you intend to use it.  I'm not aware of a graving dock being built outside of Asia in the last 30-40 years, and while they do provide more flexibility (controlling depth of harbor is less, since the dock does not have to sink lower than the ship), but it also comes with environmental impacts that some countries don't want to deal with.

 

Actually, I was talking more about a permanent concrete dry dock where you don't have to worry about floating it. Are those called graving docks? Not sure about the terminology. Obviously that gets into dredging and coffer dams to build it initially, but, once it's done, wouldn't that be preferable to a floating dry dock? 

[chengkp75]

28 minutes ago, fsjosh said:

 

Actually, I was talking more about a permanent concrete dry dock where you don't have to worry about floating it. Are those called graving docks? Not sure about the terminology. Obviously that gets into dredging and coffer dams to build it initially, but, once it's done, wouldn't that be preferable to a floating dry dock? 

My personal preference is for a "hole in the ground" graving dock, as these are less fussy about bending stresses on the ship (which can cause problems with repairs if the ship is stressed unnaturally).  But, graving docks use up valuable shoreside land, and require some place to stash the earth removed (and in many cases since this is from an existing shipyard, the earth spoils removed are polluted, making disposal difficult), and requiring relocation of the existing facilities or functions that were on the land before digging the dock.  As I said, I don't know of any graving docks having been built in the western hemisphere over the last 40 years, so there should be a reason against doing it, financial, environmental, whatever.  Not to say it can't be done, but it hasn't in a long time.

[ticketsunlimited]

22 hours ago, Thorben-Hendrik said:

Thanks... still hope we will get points with only paying taxes...👍

Our last cruise that we used the free cruise certificate did not give us the points unfortunately.  I have tried SEVERAL times to see if they would credit us the points and every time I have been refused.  We actually had 3 rooms free with 3 certificates I had saved up for my daughters graduation cruise where she could bring a friend.  ZERO points unfortunately

[Thorben-Hendrik]

18 minutes ago, ticketsunlimited said:

Our last cruise that we used the free cruise certificate did not give us the points unfortunately.  I have tried SEVERAL times to see if they would credit us the points and every time I have been refused.  We actually had 3 rooms free with 3 certificates I had saved up for my daughters graduation cruise where she could bring a friend.  ZERO points unfortunately

What is a free cruise certificate? 🤔

Did you have to pay taxes? 🤔

[ticketsunlimited]

Yes THORBEN we just paid the taxes.  We paid all the gratuities, excursions, specialty restaurants...and got no points because nothing was applied to the cruise fare.

This was the cruise certificate for a cruise for two from Visa, we applied 3 free cruises for the 3 rooms.  I believe it was 375,000 points I used.  Dan

[itsmeagain]

Chengkp75,  with the retractable stacks, how much of the ships do you think would hit the bridges goin to the Philly yard.  Figure carriers did it in the past, but they had to keep part of the Mast off.  Don’t think Oasis class could do it, but wonder how much of the bridge they would hit, 

[darthvadrouw]

6 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Well, to build a floating dock, you would have to go to one of the larger graving docks, not sure which in Europe would be capable, since the dock has to be larger than the largest ship to fit into it, but there are a couple in China, and then tow it across to wherever you intend to use it.  I'm not aware of a graving dock being built outside of Asia in the last 30-40 years, and while they do provide more flexibility (controlling depth of harbor is less, since the dock does not have to sink lower than the ship), but it also comes with environmental impacts that some countries don't want to deal with.

 

Wouldn't 'Bassin C' in St Nazaire be big enough, seemed much larger than the Oasis class ships when they were being fitted out in it ? They haven't got a full gantry crane in that dock, would one be required to build a floating dock ?
Wouldn't be a possibility in the short term anyway as they have their order book full until 2024

Edited April 11, 2019 by darthvadrouw

[chengkp75]

17 minutes ago, itsmeagain said:

Chengkp75,  with the retractable stacks, how much of the ships do you think would hit the bridges goin to the Philly yard.  Figure carriers did it in the past, but they had to keep part of the Mast off.  Don’t think Oasis class could do it, but wonder how much of the bridge they would hit, 

Oasis, with the stacks retracted, is about 210 feet above the water.  The first bridge she would meet is the Delaware Memorial Bridge, which is only 174 feet high, and then the Commodore Barry bridge at 192 feet.  So, she would likely take the top two decks or so off the top of Oasis, and destroy the Memorial bridge.  The carriers that went up to Philly are much smaller, the old Kennedy (CV67) is parked there, but she was 192 feet high, and yes, they had to remove the mast.  But, still, even getting to Philly, neither Aker nor Northeast Ship Repair have a graving dock big enough for Oasis.

[itsmeagain]

15 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Oasis, with the stacks retracted, is about 210 feet above the water.  The first bridge she would meet is the Delaware Memorial Bridge, which is only 174 feet high, and then the Commodore Barry bridge at 192 feet.  So, she would likely take the top two decks or so off the top of Oasis, and destroy the Memorial bridge.  The carriers that went up to Philly are much smaller, the old Kennedy (CV67) is parked there, but she was 192 feet high, and yes, they had to remove the mast.  But, still, even getting to Philly, neither Aker nor Northeast Ship Repair have a graving dock big enough for Oasis.

Thank you, but of course the last time I went over the Memorial bridge, it felt kind of destroyed anyways😂

[chengkp75]

15 minutes ago, darthvadrouw said:

 

Wouldn't 'Bassin C' in St Nazaire be big enough, seemed much larger than the Oasis class ships when they were being fitted out in it ? They haven't got a full gantry crane in that dock, would one be required to build a floating dock ?
Wouldn't be a possibility in the short term anyway as they have their order book full until 2024

Bassin C would be large enough, but as you say, it does not have a gantry crane, so is not used for setting construction modules.  I guess they could build the dock in two sections split lengthwise down the middle of the dock, in their 900 foot long dock, then float them out, float them into Bassin C, and join them there.  Other docks in the 80+ meter width, could likely do this as well, if you do away with virtually all clearance outside the wingwalls to the graving dock side (the only thing done in final assembly is welding and painting down the centerline).  Yards like Turku and Rauma in Finland, Dock #3 in Brest and Dock #10 in Marseille could make this possible.

[chengkp75]

12 minutes ago, itsmeagain said:

Thank you, but of course the last time I went over the Memorial bridge, it felt kind of destroyed anyways😂

I haven't been over it, so can't say what the road surface is like, but it looks okay from underneath, I go under it all the time.

[scottish67]

I stand corrected, looks like there is some training going on for the crew during the trip. Today’s learning appears to be about the upcoming Europe session. #stalker #creeper 

[AlanF65]

6 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

I haven't been over it, so can't say what the road surface is like, but it looks okay from underneath, I go under it all the time.

But the cars and trucks don't wear that side out very often🤗

[hallux]

11 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Not to say it can't be done, but it hasn't in a long time.

I'd wager that RCI is forming a committee to explore the possibility of changing this.  Build one that can fit a "new Panamax" size ship and they can enter the repair business.  Yes, I realize it's more than a hole in the ground, the gantry crane(s), fab building(s) and road/rail infrastructure work would also be a huge cost.  Then it's also a matter of WHERE to build it, as you said.  Charleston may actually be an option, but you have to worry about historical areas.  Anything much North of there and you have to concern yourself with winter weather impacting operations.  Of course, it doesn't have to be in the US...

 

Again, you can't deny that the discussion isn't at least happening especially with the news of the Allure possibly having an Azipod issue, if that needs even a semi-drydock it would mean a trip to Cadíz unless Dock 2 is repaired quickly.

[livylotte]

I'm on the May 25th sailing and today received an email to say my cruise Doc's were available. No email preparing me for Aqua Theatre being out of order yet so all looking good 😀

[fsjosh]

12 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

My personal preference is for a "hole in the ground" graving dock, as these are less fussy about bending stresses on the ship (which can cause problems with repairs if the ship is stressed unnaturally).  But, graving docks use up valuable shoreside land, and require some place to stash the earth removed (and in many cases since this is from an existing shipyard, the earth spoils removed are polluted, making disposal difficult), and requiring relocation of the existing facilities or functions that were on the land before digging the dock.  As I said, I don't know of any graving docks having been built in the western hemisphere over the last 40 years, so there should be a reason against doing it, financial, environmental, whatever.  Not to say it can't be done, but it hasn't in a long time.

 

32 minutes ago, hallux said:

I'd wager that RCI is forming a committee to explore the possibility of changing this.  Build one that can fit a "new Panamax" size ship and they can enter the repair business.  Yes, I realize it's more than a hole in the ground, the gantry crane(s), fab building(s) and road/rail infrastructure work would also be a huge cost.  Then it's also a matter of WHERE to build it, as you said.  Charleston may actually be an option, but you have to worry about historical areas.  Anything much North of there and you have to concern yourself with winter weather impacting operations.  Of course, it doesn't have to be in the US...

 

Again, you can't deny that the discussion isn't at least happening especially with the news of the Allure possibly having an Azipod issue, if that needs even a semi-drydock it would mean a trip to Cadíz unless Dock 2 is repaired quickly.

 

I see at least 2 or 3 places at the Freeport Shipyard that could work IMO. 

[John&LaLa]

11 hours ago, ticketsunlimited said:

Yes THORBEN we just paid the taxes.  We paid all the gratuities, excursions, specialty restaurants...and got no points because nothing was applied to the cruise fare.

This was the cruise certificate for a cruise for two from Visa, we applied 3 free cruises for the 3 rooms.  I believe it was 375,000 points I used.  Dan

 

Crazy, we've been very successful getting points for free cruises. Now the two VISA cruises had upgrades, but d paid no fare for our Pinnacle cruise, and a couple of casino cruises including the replacement one due to Noro on Oasis

[chengkp75]

6 hours ago, hallux said:

I'd wager that RCI is forming a committee to explore the possibility of changing this.  Build one that can fit a "new Panamax" size ship and they can enter the repair business.  Yes, I realize it's more than a hole in the ground, the gantry crane(s), fab building(s) and road/rail infrastructure work would also be a huge cost.  Then it's also a matter of WHERE to build it, as you said.  Charleston may actually be an option, but you have to worry about historical areas.  Anything much North of there and you have to concern yourself with winter weather impacting operations.  Of course, it doesn't have to be in the US...

 

Again, you can't deny that the discussion isn't at least happening especially with the news of the Allure possibly having an Azipod issue, if that needs even a semi-drydock it would mean a trip to Cadíz unless Dock 2 is repaired quickly.

There isn't a chance in hell that any new dock would be built in the US, nor that any significant new ship repair business will happen in the US, with the costs at US shipyards running 2-3 times what yards in other countries charge, if you could even get enough workers to do the hard, dirty work of ship repair.  A few years ago, I saw that the average age of US shipyard workers was 55.  And as far as winter, marine paints have become much more forgiving of low temperature application, and painting is the only aspect of drydocking that is ever a concern with winter weather, another reason younger workers don't come into the business these days.  The yards like Portland, OR, benefit from the cruise ships simply because there are very limited choices on the west coast, so the cruise lines will suck up the additional cost, raise fares a little, and use the US yards grudgingly.

[uksimonusa]

8 hours ago, hallux said:

I'd wager that RCI is forming a committee to explore the possibility of changing this.  Build one that can fit a "new Panamax" size ship and they can enter the repair business.  Yes, I realize it's more than a hole in the ground, the gantry crane(s), fab building(s) and road/rail infrastructure work would also be a huge cost.  Then it's also a matter of WHERE to build it, as you said.  Charleston may actually be an option, but you have to worry about historical areas.  Anything much North of there and you have to concern yourself with winter weather impacting operations.  Of course, it doesn't have to be in the US...

 

Again, you can't deny that the discussion isn't at least happening especially with the news of the Allure possibly having an Azipod issue, if that needs even a semi-drydock it would mean a trip to Cadíz unless Dock 2 is repaired quickly.

 

RCI are already in the repair business, they are part owner, with Carnival , of the shipyard where the accident happened

 

[orville99]

Current position, track, and ETA in Cadiz:

[DerekB]

6 minutes ago, orville99 said:

Current position, track, and ETA in Cadiz:

That's gonna be a rough ride over the peninsula! 😉

[orville99]

Just now, DerekB said:

That's gonna be a rough ride over the peninsula! 😉

True, but the plot gets too cluttered if I map it around that annoying land mass in the way.

[ticketsunlimited]

8 hours ago, John&LaLa said:

 

Crazy, we've been very successful getting points for free cruises. Now the two VISA cruises had upgrades, but d paid no fare for our Pinnacle cruise, and a couple of casino cruises including the replacement one due to Noro on Oasis

John, all casino cruises receive full credit, pinnacle..and if you upgrade and pay the cost difference on your “cruise fare” you will receive credit. Pay only taxes...no credit. The visa rewards program is just a little different I guess. Th last couple years I just applied 100,000 points to cruise fare to knock off 1000.00 and get our full point credits. My last anthem cruise I applied 250,000 points for a 2500.00 credit.

[Biker19]

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

There isn't a chance in hell that any new dock would be built in the US, nor that any significant new ship repair business will happen in the US, with the costs at US shipyards running 2-3 times what yards in other countries charge, if you could even get enough workers to do the hard, dirty work of ship repair. 

How about in 10 years when Oasis class will start needing a dry dock every 2.5 years? Modify Freeport somehow so that RCI doesn't have to do TAs with their Oasis class ships that often?