New Pricing Bundles or Non-Refundable: Your Thoughts!

[Cruise Junky]

25 minutes ago, NantahalaCruiser said:

Always get a chuckle when I see a posting like this. I am sure there are many reasons to book Oceania or Azamara (e.g. for their superb food and service) but their all inclusive pricing is not one of them!

 

I challenge you to find comparable cruises for which Celebrity's effective all inclusive price is "almost the same price" as their all inclusive pricing.

 

Here is a randomly chosen comparison.

 

Australia/New Zealand cruises:

 

Oceania Regatta 14-night 1/20/20 in cheapest balcony B2 with basic beverage included

$8199.00 pp or $584.64 per night

 

Azamara Journey 15-night 2/8/20 in cheapest balcony V3 with basic beverage included

$5624.00

$427.32 T&F

$6051.32 pp or $403.42 per night

 

Celebrity Solstice 13-night 2/17/20 in most expensive standard balcony 1A

with a 12% larger cabin and 25% larger balcony (not counting the larger angled balcony space)

$2479.00 Fare

$196.19 T&F

$450.00 4-perk upgrade with premium beverage

$428.00 12-night specialty restaurant package + 1 additional night at $50

$3553.19 pp or $296.10 per night

 

Total "Inclusive Cost" per night Summary:

Oceania is 97% higher than Celebrity

Azamara is 36% higher than Celebrity

 

I'd love to see a case where Oceania or Azamara prices were more in line with Celebrity - so please show me.

 

And again, I am not saying that Celebrity is at the same quality level - just that the "all inclusive" pricing is no where close to that of Celebrity.

 

 

Not exactly what I'd call a fair fight when it comes to Itinerary.    Celebrity's pales in comparison. 

 

Oceania	Celebrity	Azamara
Sydney, Australia	Auckland, New Zealand	Auckland, New Zealand
Eden, Australia	Bay of Islands, New Zealand	Bay of Islands, New Zealand
Melbourne, Australia	Tauranga, New Zealand	Tauranga, New Zealand
Melbourne, Australia	At Sea	Napier, New Zealand
Burnie, Tasmania, Australia	Akaroa, New Zealand	Wellington, New Zealand
At Sea	Dunedin (Port Chalmers), New Zealand	Picton, New Zealand
At Sea	Dusky Sound, New Zealand (Cruising)	Akaroa, New Zealand
Milford Sound, New Zealand (Cruising)	Doubtful Sound, New Zealand (Cruising)	Dunedin (Port Chalmers), New Zealand
Dunedin (Port Chalmers), New Zealand	Milford Sound, New Zealand (Cruising)	Stewart Island, New Zealand
Akaroa, New Zealand	At Sea	Doubtful Sound, New Zealand (Cruising)
Wellington, New Zealand	At Sea	Milford Sound, New Zealand (Cruising)
Napier, New Zealand	Sydney, Australia	At Sea
Gisborne, New Zealand	Sydney, Australia	At Sea
Rotorua, New Zealand	At Sea	Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Auckland, New Zealand	Melbourne, Australia	Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
		At Sea
		Sydney, Australia

[NantahalaCruiser]

24 minutes ago, NantahalaCruiser said:

Always get a chuckle when I see a posting like this. I am sure there are many reasons to book Oceania or Azamara (e.g. for their superb food and service) but their all inclusive pricing is not one of them!

 

I challenge you to find comparable cruises for which Celebrity's effective all inclusive price is "almost the same price" as their all inclusive pricing.

 

Here is a randomly chosen comparison.

 

Australia/New Zealand cruises:

 

Oceania Regatta 14-night 1/20/20 in cheapest balcony B2 with basic beverage included

$8199.00 pp or $584.64 per night

 

Azamara Journey 15-night 2/8/20 in cheapest balcony V3 with basic beverage included

$5624.00

$427.32 T&F

$6051.32 pp or $403.42 per night

 

Celebrity Solstice 13-night 2/17/20 in most expensive standard balcony 1A

with a 12% larger cabin and 25% larger balcony (not counting the larger angled balcony space)

$2479.00 Fare

$196.19 T&F

$450.00 4-perk upgrade with premium beverage

$428.00 12-night specialty restaurant package + 1 additional night at $50

$3553.19 pp or $296.10 per night

 

Total "Inclusive Cost" per night Summary:

Oceania is 97% higher than Celebrity

Azamara is 36% higher than Celebrity

 

I'd love to see a case where Oceania or Azamara prices were more in line with Celebrity - so please show me.

 

And again, I am not saying that Celebrity is at the same quality level - just that the "all inclusive" pricing is no where close to that of Celebrity.

 

 

Sorry, just noticed math error.

 

Celebrity cruise is only 12 nights, so specialty package is just $378, Celebrity total cost = $3503.19 or $291.93

 

And thus Oceania is 100% higher and Azamara is 38% higher

[Cruise Junky]

7 minutes ago, Silkroad said:

Really? What cabin type are you comparing? I’ve been intrigued by specific Azamara itineraries for years, but each time I compare a Veranda cabin on the two lines, I find that Azamara costs significantly more.  Ditto for Oceania, except the cost difference is larger. At least a Veranda cabin on Oceania Riviera or Marina would be larger than my closet. The same cannot be said for Azamara, or Oceania’s other ships. Also, I haven’t seen a “Premium” drink package included on Azamara.

 

I just took a quick peek at July and August in the Med, 7 day cruises.  Oceania is running about $100 more pp than Edge. Also on Oceania's newest ship. Considering that would include gratuities and specialty dining and Edge is without perks, I'd say they're comparable.

[NantahalaCruiser]

3 minutes ago, Cruise Junky said:

Not exactly what I'd call a fair fight when it comes to Itinerary.    Celebrity's pales in comparison. 

 

Oceania	Celebrity	Azamara
Sydney, Australia	Auckland, New Zealand	Auckland, New Zealand
Eden, Australia	Bay of Islands, New Zealand	Bay of Islands, New Zealand
Melbourne, Australia	Tauranga, New Zealand	Tauranga, New Zealand
Melbourne, Australia	At Sea	Napier, New Zealand
Burnie, Tasmania, Australia	Akaroa, New Zealand	Wellington, New Zealand
At Sea	Dunedin (Port Chalmers), New Zealand	Picton, New Zealand
At Sea	Dusky Sound, New Zealand (Cruising)	Akaroa, New Zealand
Milford Sound, New Zealand (Cruising)	Doubtful Sound, New Zealand (Cruising)	Dunedin (Port Chalmers), New Zealand
Dunedin (Port Chalmers), New Zealand	Milford Sound, New Zealand (Cruising)	Stewart Island, New Zealand
Akaroa, New Zealand	At Sea	Doubtful Sound, New Zealand (Cruising)
Wellington, New Zealand	At Sea	Milford Sound, New Zealand (Cruising)
Napier, New Zealand	Sydney, Australia	At Sea
Gisborne, New Zealand	Sydney, Australia	At Sea
Rotorua, New Zealand	At Sea	Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Auckland, New Zealand	Melbourne, Australia	Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
		At Sea
		Sydney, Australia

As I said, there are many quality issues for choosing Oceania or Azamar over Celebrity.

 

But it is certainly fallacious to say that their all inclusive pricing are anywhere close.

 

If there is a comparison with similar inclusive pricing please let me know. I randomly choose this region of the world, but in past comparisons I have also seen very different all in prices in Europe and elsewhere.

[Silkroad]

Just now, Cruise Junky said:

 

I just took a quick peek at July and August in the Med, 7 day cruises.  Oceania is running about $100 more pp than Edge. Also on Oceania's newest ship. Considering that would include gratuities and specialty dining and Edge is without perks, I'd say they're comparable.

I’m not interested in the Mediterranean in July or August. What cabin type are you comparing?

[Silkroad]

1 hour ago, Cruise Junky said:

 

I just did a comparison of the almost identical itinerary on Solstice vs Serenade.

 

Both 19 days...and very, very close on the itinerary.  Serenade has one more sea day  - they leave Sydney within a week of each other.

Prices for two in Canadian

$6755  Balcony - Serenade No Perks but refundable deposit

$6000 Balcony - Serenade no perks but non-refundable deposit

$9348 Balcony - Solstice No Perks, Non Refundable Deposit

$11,370  Balcony - Solstice 2 Perks and a refundable deposit

 

a $4615 difference for two perks...OUCH  Or, I could stick with HAL... 18 days. $8,300 Canadian. Balcony, Drink Package, Dinner in the Pinnacle and a refundable deposit, 1 less sea day than Solstice and 2 less than RCL.  Celebrity are nuts.

 

 

Though I’m always looking at other lines, I’ve only sailed Celebrity. Which HAL ship are you comparing, and of the three ships/lines, which do you prefer? 

 

[Cruise Junky]

3 minutes ago, Silkroad said:

I’m not interested in the Mediterranean in July or August. What cabin type are you comparing?

Balconies.  on Both.  Itineraries are below - very, very similar. Not saying you should book it, I'm saying that you can indeed find pricing that is very similar

 

Riviera	Edge
Rome (Civitavecchia), Italy	Rome (Civitavecchia), Italy
Florence / Pisa (Livorno), Italy	Naples, Italy
Portofino, Italy	At Sea
Monte Carlo, Monaco	Florence / Pisa (Livorno), Italy
Cannes, France	Monte Carlo, Monaco
Marseille, France	Cannes, France
Palma de Mallorca, Spain	Palma de Mallorca, Spain
Barcelona, Spain	Barcelona, Spain

[Cruise Junky]

3 minutes ago, Silkroad said:

Though I’m always looking at other lines, I’ve only sailed Celebrity. Which HAL ship are you comparing, and of the three ships/lines, which do you prefer? 

 

Solstice is my favourite ship, so it's hard for me to go with HAL.  The ship that we booked is Oosterdam. She's decent. we got an aft balcony which is quite large too.   Just can't beat the price and the fact that HAL includes the drinks for that price.  I will keep my options open until final payment, I think they leave three days apart so could always switch right before final payment. Celebrity was blowing that cruise out for $1,699 for a balcony for this coming April. It's just they start so darn high, it's ridiculous

Edited April 5, 2019 by Cruise Junky

[NantahalaCruiser]

8 minutes ago, Cruise Junky said:

 

I just took a quick peek at July and August in the Med, 7 day cruises.  Oceania is running about $100 more pp than Edge. Also on Oceania's newest ship. Considering that would include gratuities and specialty dining and Edge is without perks, I'd say they're comparable.

Edge 2018, Riviera 2012 - not comparable

 

Compare with Reflection 2012!

[Cruise Junky]

Just now, NantahalaCruiser said:

Edge 2018, Riviera 2012 - not comparable

 

Compare with Reflection 2012!

It is if you want an actual balcony rather than a window that opens. I wouldn't pay 2 cents for an infinity balcony on Edge.  And not everything is about the age of the ship.

[bEwAbG]

I think it's ok to say that there are some similar itineraries sometimes that may be somewhat close in price.  That's a factor of supply and demand.  However, there are always lots of caveats, so I don't think saying "X is as expensive as Oceania" is really quite accurate without specifics down to the sailing & booking date.  X has certainly been proud of their prices for the last year, but as we see, there have been quite a few fire sales after final payment.

[Bo1953]

4 hours ago, mnocket said:

I get a kick out of how successful Celebrity has been in getting people to pay for add-ons and still getting people to think of them as "Perks".  In days gone by, Perks were incentives, freebies if you will, that were offered as a promotion to attract new bookings.  Next we saw "Perk" promotions that were often offset by increased prices.  Then Big, Better, Best - pay more and choose your "Perks".  Now Sail Your Way - a repackaging of BBB that opens the door to broader differentiation along the lines of MSC's "Experiences".

 

Maybe it's just semantics, but I think "Perks" stopped being perks when we started paying for them....  when we started paying more to get "free" drinks, they stopped being free and in my mind stopped being perks.

You are absolutely correct in terms of the terminology and its' application...

 

Yet, most people, IMO understand that the Perks must be paid for one way or another. If not, then they are not thinking about the situation correctly, especially if they have cruised more than five (5) times, then they may need to consider a land vacation instead if the added costs for the perks blindsides them.

 

Again, if someone interprets something on-board as 'free' vs. no additional charge for the level of inclusion at which you purchased, will find out soon there is NO free aboard unless E, E+ or Suite levels, then again either they have paid for the privilege over many sailings on X OR paid through cabin choice.

 

Most of us are not disillusioned by the word usage vs paying an acceptable price for the selected sailing with or without the perks we want.

 

bon voyage

[Silkroad]

2 minutes ago, NantahalaCruiser said:

Edge 2018, Riviera 2012 - not comparable

 

Compare with Reflection 2012!

Ah, now I’m on familiar territory. I’ve sailed Reflection, and loved her. In fact, we’re booked on her for our first Caribbean cruise this December🙂 

 

I have looked at Oceania Riviara for a couple unique European itineraries, but when I have compared their Veranda cabins with Reflection or Silhouette, I just haven’t been able to commit to the extra cost. That said, if I find a good deal on an itinerary I like, and we can get away from work, I’ll give it a go. My sense is that such a deal would be the exception rather than the norm.

[Silkroad]

6 hours ago, jkgourmet said:

Agree that prices are typically better after final booking.  However, for us, that savings is usually lost when we go to book airfare.

Agree. That has been our experience. 

Edited April 5, 2019 by Silkroad

[ak1004]

1 hour ago, NantahalaCruiser said:

Always get a chuckle when I see a posting like this. I am sure there are many reasons to book Oceania or Azamara (e.g. for their superb food and service) but their all inclusive pricing is not one of them!

 

I challenge you to find comparable cruises for which Celebrity's effective all inclusive price is "almost the same price" as their all inclusive pricing.

 

Here is a randomly chosen comparison.

 

Australia/New Zealand cruises:

 

Oceania Regatta 14-night 1/20/20 in cheapest balcony B2 with basic beverage included

$8199.00 pp or $584.64 per night

 

Azamara Journey 15-night 2/8/20 in cheapest balcony V3 with basic beverage included

$5624.00

$427.32 T&F

$6051.32 pp or $403.42 per night

 

Celebrity Solstice 13-night 2/17/20 in most expensive standard balcony 1A

with a 12% larger cabin and 25% larger balcony (not counting the larger angled balcony space)

$2479.00 Fare

$196.19 T&F

$450.00 4-perk upgrade with premium beverage

$428.00 12-night specialty restaurant package + 1 additional night at $50

$3553.19 pp or $296.10 per night

 

Total "Inclusive Cost" per night Summary:

Oceania is 97% higher than Celebrity

Azamara is 36% higher than Celebrity

 

I'd love to see a case where Oceania or Azamara prices were more in line with Celebrity - so please show me.

 

And again, I am not saying that Celebrity is at the same quality level - just that the "all inclusive" pricing is no where close to that of Celebrity.

 

 

 

We usually book an inside cabin as we only sleep in the cabin and don't really see any logic wasting around $3,000 per person for the veranda, which in most cases has essentially the same size.

 

So here are examples from our last two cruises (all amounts are in Canadian dollars).

Sep. 2018 Oceania Riviera 10 days Rome-Barcelona:

Paid $4,400 including flight to Rome, $300 US onboard credit per person, taxes, free internet etc. Also, they had an unlimited shore excursion package for around $1,100 (or 25% discount if you book more than 5). This was for 9 excursions. 

 

Effective cost if you subtract the flight and the onboard credit: around $3,000 CAD

 

Similar cruise on Reflection for example?

 

I found one for $3,400 this September (12 nights), and similar price for September 2020. October is slightly cheaper as it is a bit off season. Edge is even more expensive. Yes, it is 12 nights, so would be around $2,800 for 10 nights. But for $200 more per person, Oceania has free internet, free specialty restaurants, free non alcoholic drinks and so much more.

 

March 2019 Azamara 11 nights to South America:
Paid $3,300 for inside cabin, including $250 US onboard credit per person, taxes, free internet, $100 spa credit and premium beverage package.

 

Effective cost if you subtract the onboard credits: around $2,800 (still includes free internet and premium beverage package) or $254 per night.

 

Similar cruise on Celebrity for inside cabin varies from $2,300 for 10 nights, $3,000 for 14 nights, $2,600 for 14 nights etc. Average around $2,600 for 12 nights, so around $216 per night, not including internet and beverage package. if you include the internet and beverage package, the cost will be probably higher on Celebrity.

 

So yes, very close prices. On average, Oceania and Azamara are probably around 10% more expensive on average when you factor all the inclusions. 

 

Now, if you compare some unique itineraries that Azamara does, then yes, the price really takes off. Like Azamara 14 nights to Black Sea that is around $6,000+ CAD for inside cabin.

[cruise kitty]

For longer repositioning cruises, this is a bit of a win.   (in my opinion)   We have the Suez Canal booked for 2021,   15 nights with no perks...  just switched to the 2 perk offer, for $550 each we're each getting a beverage package (that would be $1062 each on our sailing)  & gratuities, we're in a C1 so that would be $225 each, our rate with the perks is still refundable, so that's a plus.   So basically it's like we prepaid our gratuities, paid $550 & gained 2 beverage packages.   I'm happy with that :)

Edited April 5, 2019 by cruise kitty

[ak1004]

1 hour ago, Silkroad said:

Ah, now I’m on familiar territory. I’ve sailed Reflection, and loved her. In fact, we’re booked on her for our first Caribbean cruise this December🙂 

 

I have looked at Oceania Riviara for a couple unique European itineraries, but when I have compared their Veranda cabins with Reflection or Silhouette, I just haven’t been able to commit to the extra cost. That said, if I find a good deal on an itinerary I like, and we can get away from work, I’ll give it a go. My sense is that such a deal would be the exception rather than the norm.

 

Oceania is in a different league. Once you sail with them, it will be difficult to go back to Celebrity. Read my review - https://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=636041

 

And as I showed, the difference in price might be much less than you think when you account for all inclusions.

 

That said, I realize that difference between inside and balcony might be higher on Oceania than on Celebrity. We don't really mind the inside, so for us it's not even a question.

[Silkroad]

29 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

That said, I realize that difference between inside and balcony might be higher on Oceania than on Celebrity. We don't really mind the inside, so for us it's not even a question.

Thanks for the link to your review. All the positives about Oceania sound very nice, but I agree with you that saying Internet is included is misleading if the Internet speed is that slow. You didn’t mention alcoholic beverages. I don’t believe they’re included. Do you find the alcoholic beverage prices reasonable? You’re correct in asssuming that I wouldn’t be comparing inside cabins, and your description of the bathroom in your Oceania Inside cabin doesn’t inspire me to try one. We’ve only sailed in cabins with verandas thus far. 

[Lastdance]

We all have our individual biases that play an important role, along with time of year etc. Doing all the math and comparison shopping are always important, but sometimes I just want what I want!  Life is short, so what makes sense financially, may not to individual consumers for various reasons...anyone else out there ever do that?  

Edited April 6, 2019 by Lastdance

[wrk2cruise]

I've been wondering what impact the new strategy has wrt senior and resident discounts.  I found resident and senior on a 10 night cruise on Summit.

 

I find it quite interesting there's no "no perks" rate.  Doesn't seem much like a "discount" $33 pp/pd and 2 less perks.

 

 

 

 

[ak1004]

1 hour ago, Silkroad said:

Thanks for the link to your review. All the positives about Oceania sound very nice, but I agree with you that saying Internet is included is misleading if the Internet speed is that slow. You didn’t mention alcoholic beverages. I don’t believe they’re included. Do you find the alcoholic beverage prices reasonable? You’re correct in asssuming that I wouldn’t be comparing inside cabins, and your description of the bathroom in your Oceania Inside cabin doesn’t inspire me to try one. We’ve only sailed in cabins with verandas thus far. 

 

In an ideal world, I would put Celebrity cabin on Oceania ship. But we know that's not possible. To me, the cabin is a very small part of the overall experience, so I don't really care for an extra 30 sqft or veranda. What I do care is the bed and the bedding - and Oceania has incredibly comfortable beds and amazing bedding. No comparison to Celebrity.

 

Internet is an issue on most ships, including Celebrity. But on Oceania you at least don't pay $300 for the internet, and they don't advertise it as high speed, which Celebrity does - a clear misleading, as the Internet on Celebrity is not high speed. Not even close.

 

We don't drink much, so I cannot really comment about alcohol. And no, they are not included on Oceania. I believe the packages are cheaper than Celebrity, but cannot say for sure.

[Oville]

2 hours ago, ak1004 said:

 

Oceania is in a different league. Once you sail with them, it will be difficult to go back to Celebrity. Read my review - https://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=636041

 

And as I showed, the difference in price might be much less than you think when you account for all inclusions.

 

That said, I realize that difference between inside and balcony might be higher on Oceania than on Celebrity. We don't really mind the inside, so for us it's not even a question.

Oceania was one and done for us.  The food in the specialty restaurants is probably the best at sea but the rest of the ship was not our cup of of tea.  Speaking of tea, we went to the dance floor in the forward lounge one evening , first song they played “Tea For Two” a song my early years dancing with my mother as a toddler.  The main theater shows were awful, the MDR no better than Celebrity with horrible service and the drink package unbelievably expenses.

 

 

[Oville]

2 hours ago, Silkroad said:

Thanks for the link to your review. All the positives about Oceania sound very nice, but I agree with you that saying Internet is included is misleading if the Internet speed is that slow. You didn’t mention alcoholic beverages. I don’t believe they’re included. Do you find the alcoholic beverage prices reasonable? You’re correct in asssuming that I wouldn’t be comparing inside cabins, and your description of the bathroom in your Oceania Inside cabin doesn’t inspire me to try one. We’ve only sailed in cabins with verandas thus far. 

Hi, Oceania is a totally different experience and one we will never try again.  The beverage package which we bought was very expensive and the entertainment not enjoyable.  We stayed in a penthouse suite which was fine but no better than a Sky Suite on Celebrity yet double the cost.  Katie  

[Silkroad]

Just now, Oville said:

Hi, Oceania is a totally different experience and one we will never try again.  The beverage package which we bought was very expensive and the entertainment not enjoyable.  We stayed in a penthouse suite which was fine but no better than a Sky Suite on Celebrity yet double the cost.  Katie  

Thanks Katie. Judging by your reviews and posts, we like similar things, so your comparison is very helpful. I wish I had been on that cruise with you and Marilyn😊

 

Cheers,

 

Michelle 

[ak1004]

9 minutes ago, Oville said:

Oceania was one and done for us.  The food in the specialty restaurants is probably the best at sea but the rest of the ship was not our cup of of tea.  Speaking of tea, we went to the dance floor in the forward lounge one evening , first song they played “Tea For Two” a song my early years dancing with my mother as a toddler.  The main theater shows were awful, the MDR no better than Celebrity with horrible service and the drink package unbelievably expenses.

 

 

 

I guess to each its own.

 

We found the food in the MDR on Oceania significantly better than any specialty restaurant on Celebrity. The service was outstanding. No crowds. No lines.

 

But of course if you prefer to spend your time in constant lines, waiting for elevators, fighting for seats in the theater, tables in the buffet and chairs in the pool, paying for specialty coffees and teas, paying for specialty restaurants, then Celebrity might be your cup of tea.