FYI QM2 CASUAL DRESS CRUISERS

[PORT ROYAL]

32 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

I think this post is going off the topic, which is about allowing people who want to dress casually access to enough of the ship to fully enjoy their cruise. No one is suggesting you shouldn't wash before dinner or change into clean clothes. Neither is anyone suggesting Cunard should relax the dress code in the current waiter service fine dining rooms. Or that enough of the bars and the ballroom should not keep to the dress code. Cunard has missed the casual boat trend and it would be commercial suicide to follow this 10 years to late. It must find it's own unique path, based on style

 

The biggest area of contention is the jacket rule in the theatre. Some argue that this is the slippery  slope to an all casual Cunard,  whilst some say it's  just a variety show not Glydebourne and it doesn't diminish their enjoyment if others are casual. 

 

If you don't want to wear a jacket in theatre just tell staff (and PortRoyal) you self-identify as a woman , they won't have an answer to that, as it says in the advert simples.

 

 

No need to self identify if wearing identifiable female formal attire.

[PORT ROYAL]

16 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

Seems to me that if you're going to shower and change clothes before dinner, you may as well change into smart clean clothes.

 

Sorry, but still not comprehending these thought process of some.

 

Dress for Formal evenings, drinks, dine, return to stateroom, change into smart casual, leave jacket behind, go to Theatre.

 

Dress for Smart Casual evenings, drinks, dine, return to stateroom, return to stateroom change in day casual, leave jacket behind, go to Theatre.  

 

If the jacket is the problem,  why not go directly to Theatre and remove jacket on being seated?  Simples.

[Windsurfboy]

This is about letting people who have chosen to spend the whole night casual into the theatre. So the solution can't be them taking their jacket off. It's about  a more tolerant attitude to dress in the theatre 

[PORT ROYAL]

Having thought deeply on the exchanges, I have been minded to accept that some posters believe it is impolite to invite a Cunard 'challenge' to the dress code adherence, same being undertaken prior to, or post, entertainment in the Theatre.

 

Therefore, I will accept the alleged 'impolitic' actions has caused some irritation to specific CC posters.  

 

I wish now to conclude fully this particular matter on this thread.  

 

In the future I will be minded to decline to stimulate any prior/post challenges on all future cruises, and will only instigate 'challenge' requests during entertainment in the Theatre, in full view of the audience.  

 

The 'during' protocol has proven successful in the past, with the best outcome being over twelve invitations in one action.

 

 

 

[Windsurfboy]

36 minutes ago, PORT ROYAL said:

 

No need to self identify if wearing identifiable female formal attire.

 

A pair of trousers and a blouse is part of the female dress code.  A blouse is just a shirt worn by a woman, trousers are trousers so there's not an issue.

 

 

[PORT ROYAL]

3 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

This is about letting people who have chosen to spend the whole night casual into the theatre. So the solution can't be them taking their jacket off. It's about  a more tolerant attitude to dress in the theatre 

 

The more tolerant attitude to dress codes in the Theatre has to come from Cunard and/or Carnival, as it is they publish the dress codes.

 

Cunard publish the dress codes and the ship, plus it's officers and crew, are there to enforce it.  Failing to do so can be considered "A failure to follow the correct procedure", meaning disobeying an order, or gross misconduct. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Windsurfboy]

Do you then advocate throwing  people off the ship (at the first port of course) for not wearing a jacket. How generous

 

Fortunately this is all bluster. As you well know the dress code says

for gala nights we INVITE you to .........  And for the other evenings  it says we ASK you to ............

 

Invite  - Make a polite formal or friendly request for someone to do something.

 

Ask - To request someone to do something

 

Hence the dress code is voluntary.  Thus the officers and crew would be overstepping their authority to do anything but politely  :invite  : ask  :request men to wear a jacket. There is no such thing as failure to follow a voluntary procedure.

 

I'm not advocating people ignoring the dress code, I  would never do so myself, and hope everyone follows it, but advocating draconian measures to enforce a voluntary code is over the top.

 

As has been said it is up to Cunard to encourage (note encourage not enforce) passengers to follow the dress code . Also as others have said I would find it extremely bad manners if some self appointed policeman commented on my attire.

 

 

 

 

 

[nybumpkin]

On 5/31/2019 at 10:53 PM, Germancruiser said:

 

Those Carnival ships are more or less like a camp ground going to sea! They don´t even bother with tableclothes in the Main Dining room anymore- well why should they- if people come dressed in rugs- why bother with table clothes!

With so many options these days- there is a ship for everyones taste!

As you can see from my signature, DH and I are sailing Cunard for the first time next month after - gulp - 24 Carnival cruises. Up to now we've sailed with our sons (that's them in my avatar, BTW, wearing tuxes on Carnival Victory in 2007). While there are always outliers who don't dress well for dinner (while I usually don't care what others wear, baseball caps on men in the dining room drive me nuts), by and large passengers look respectable, even if most don't dress up as much and DH and I do. You can go on a Carnival cruise and avoid things like the hairy chest contest on the Lido deck - we tend more to playing cards or going to trivia. As for the tablecloths - I really didn't miss them.

 

Sons are grown now, and none of them will be coming with us. A crossing on Cunard has always been on my bucket list. We enjoy dressing up, and we don't go back to the cabin after dinner to change. DH was just fitted for a new tux and will also be bringing his dinner jacket. I have two gowns and am contemplating a third. I expect a very different experience. I'm glad OP enjoyed his experience on QM2 without dressing up.

 

Next year we're doing a river cruise. No dressing up at all. You're absolutely right - there's a ship for everyone's taste out there.

Edited June 2, 2019 by nybumpkin

[PORT ROYAL]

22 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

Do you then advocate throwing  people off the ship (at the first port of course) for not wearing a jacket. How generous

 

Fortunately this is all bluster. As you well know the dress code says

for gala nights we INVITE you to .........  And for the other evenings  it says we ASK you to ............

 

Invite  - Make a polite formal or friendly request for someone to do something.

 

Ask - To request someone to do something

 

Hence the dress code is voluntary.  Thus the officers and crew would be overstepping their authority to do anything but politely  :invite  : ask  :request men to wear a jacket. There is no such thing as failure to follow a voluntary procedure.

 

I'm not advocating people ignoring the dress code, I  would never do so myself, and hope everyone follows it, but advocating draconian measures to enforce a voluntary code is over the top.

 

As has been said it is up to Cunard to encourage (note encourage not enforce) passengers to follow the dress code . Also as others have said I would find it extremely bad manners if some self appointed policeman commented on my attire.

 

 

 

 

 

 

With regard to your comment on self appointed 'Policemen'.  Please be informed that there are actually male and female officers and crew employed by Cunard.  Only members of Cunard Crew are allowed to enforce the dress codes.

 

And if, repeat if, there was any doubt regarding the word "request" giving an alternative interpretation, or e emotion, same being suitable to 'Casuals', in an attempt to substantiate their view, then an invitation would have never been issued.

 

One makes a simple suggestion to an Officer, or a member of Crew, and it is the solely within the Ship's remit how to handle the matter.

 

 

Published the complete text from VP

Smart Attire: Gentlemen, every night we request you wear smart trousers with a shirt and jacket; tie is optional. Ladies, blouses and skirts or stylish trousers and dresses are welcome. 

 

Gala Evenings: It’s Showtime. Dinner jacket, tuxedo, or dark suit for the men with a regular tie or bow tie. Evening or cocktail dress, smart trouser suit, or formal separates for the ladies please. 

 

 

From the below, kindly confirm the inclusion of "The Theatre".

Of course, if you prefer to spend your evenings in more relaxed attire, feel free to dress casually as you visit any of the following venues: Kings Court or Lido Buffet, Golden Lion, Casino, Carinthia Lounge, Winter Garden/Winter Lounge and G32 or Yacht Club. Non-ripped jeans are appropriate, but please refrain from wearing shorts, sports attire, swim wear or sleeveless t-shirts outside of the gym, spa and deck spaces.

 

 

Edited June 2, 2019 by PORT ROYAL
Question

[Windsurfboy]

Firstly,  the English language is the English  language, intention cannot change the meaning of the words invite or ask or request, all of these mean that something is voluntary. Cunard choose these words and must either change them or live with the official meaning, see any dictionary

 

It is not the Cunard staff who say (admonish)  to other passengers quite knowingly  as you've admitted " I think you've left your jacket on the seat "  this cannot be seen as anything but rude 

[exlondoner]

However, it is the Cunard staff who from time to time politely ask passengers to leave venues - restaurants or bars - if they do not conform to the dress code, whatever the relevant verb therein.

[PORT ROYAL]

6 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

Firstly,  the English language is the English  language, intention cannot change the meaning of the words invite or ask or request, all of these mean that something is voluntary. Cunard choose these words and must either change them or live with the official meaning, see any dictionary

 

It is not the Cunard staff who say (admonish)  to other passengers quite knowingly  as you've admitted " I think you've left your jacket on the seat "  this cannot be seen as anything but rude 

 

My polite assistance, is condsidered rude, in your opinion, but I have previously stated this will be discontinued, leaving the process of "invitations" to be undertaken during entertainment in the theatre, solely with Cunard Officers and members of Cunard crew.

 

May one suggest you direct your requests for clarity in the interpretation of a specific word to the Board of Carnival.  Until officially confirmed otherwise by Cunard, one's polite requests to Cunard Officers and Crew for invitations be extended will be continued.

 

 

 

 

[BobBranst]

2 hours ago, Windsurfboy said:

Firstly,  the English language is the English  language, intention cannot change the meaning of the words invite or ask or request, all of these mean that something is voluntary. Cunard choose these words and must either change them or live with the official meaning, see any dictionary

 

 

Not exactly true.  There are actually several versions of the English language.   Words do often have different meanings, depending on where it is spoken and written.   In an earlier post, Windsurfboy referred to an item of clothing as a  "jumper", whereas that very same item of clothing is referred to as a "sweater" in the US.   I have no idea what it would be called in Australia or New Zealand.😉   

 

If one insists on being a stickler for language accuracy, consider the fact that Cunard is a wholly owned subsidiary of the an American corporation (Carnival).   Therefor, any words used in the Cunard documents (even those for the UK market) could conceivably have been written by an American and that the American Version  English Language could conceivably have slightly different meanings than that used by those in the UK.

 

It's All a matter of Semantics.

[navybankerteacher]

2 hours ago, BobBranst said:

 

...

 

It's All a matter of Semantics.

And the underlying purpose of the exercise is, of course, to move Cunard in the direction of other lines in adopting informality.

[PORT ROYAL]

4 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

And the underlying purpose of the exercise is, of course, to move Cunard in the direction of other lines in adopting informality.

 

And the underlying purpose of the exercise by the majority of Cunard guests, is of course, to move those requiring more casual wear, in the direction of other lines having adopted informally.

[Tonopah]

1 hour ago, navybankerteacher said:

And the underlying purpose of the exercise is, of course, to move Cunard in the direction of other lines in adopting informality.

 

1 hour ago, PORT ROYAL said:

And the underlying purpose of the exercise by the majority of Cunard guests, is of course, to move those requiring more casual wear, in the direction of other lines having adopted informally.

 

.”...And that’s why we need a bodacious video!”

”...And THAT’S why we need Eddie Van Halen!’

 

(from “Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure”. The proper response is, of course, to play air guitar in agreement.)

 

Yes, I am a student of the classics.

Edited June 2, 2019 by Tonopah

[Victoria2]

I abide by any requested dress code and find it very easy to do and  in my perfect world, every other passenger would do the same, including  more casual in the designated areas, but, I have no problem with those who choose to adopt a slightly more casual look for the theatre for three quarters of an hour in a somewhat darkened environment, especially if it increases the audience for the later show. I have yet to see a member of staff eject a jacketless passenger from the theatre and  would be very interested to see what would happen if a passenger objected to the presence of any of the jacketless. 

 

Would  staff smile but ignore or would they be prepared for a confrontation? Somehow, I think the smile but a shrug would be the general answer but  thankfully, I don't think I've ever witnessed a passenger on fellow passenger dress code violation complaint in the theatre and hope I never will. 

 

[PORT ROYAL]

57 minutes ago, Victoria2 said:

I abide by any requested dress code and find it very easy to do and  in my perfect world, every other passenger would do the same, including  more casual in the designated areas, but, I have no problem with those who choose to adopt a slightly more casual look for the theatre for three quarters of an hour in a somewhat darkened environment, especially if it increases the audience for the later show. I have yet to see a member of staff eject a jacketless passenger from the theatre and  would be very interested to see what would happen if a passenger objected to the presence of any of the jacketless. 

 

Would  staff smile but ignore or would they be prepared for a confrontation? Somehow, I think the smile but a shrug would be the general answer but  thankfully, I don't think I've ever witnessed a passenger on fellow passenger dress code violation complaint in the theatre and hope I never will. 

 

 

Also, members of jacketless crew (Theatre Company) have been invited.  One does not make a request solely for passengers.

Bye the bye, believe the crew received a formal reprimand.

[Windsurfboy]

This post started off very positively with an account of a cuise saying even those who like casual dress only can enjoy a Cunard cruise.

 

I made a innocent comment , agreeing  that it's a pity that they are not allowed the theatre,  as it's dark and you should be looking at the show not others.

 

In the post casual dressers have been accused of using the buffet to dodge tipping waiters, of being too mean to buy a full bottle of wine , of not washing before going to dinner. Then we have someone advocating the tactic of trying to embarrass any one with out a jacket, by asking them if they have left their coat on the seat. Only Brexit and Trump can generate more vitriol. 

 

It was enough to make someone , myself, who always follows the dress code, and who would like more formal/gala nights and who wants to keep every night a special occasion,  try to stand up for the casual dressers. Lets have a bit of generousity of spirit. 

 

Let me repeat my view, Cunard have missed the casual boat, and it would be a mistake to chase yesterday's trends. But it like all businesses it must change and should find it's own unique path,  one of style and occasion. 

 

PS The words invite, and ask do have the same meaning in the US dictionaries as British, and by the way the Bahamas where the ship's are registered  is a British dependency