Cunard's New Conservation and Sustainability Modifications

[MamaFrog]

Greetings all,

 

Wondering what to expect from Cunard's new environmental measures, detailed here 

https://www.cunard.com/en-gb/advice-and-policies/environment?utm_medium=email&utm_source=ECN1160&utm_campaign=brand&utm_term=CU-27363703&utm_content=cta_main

 

Would be grateful for any reviews of the changes as they are implemented 🙂

 

Thanks

 

[Host Hattie]

They all sound like sensible things to do, I am sure some people will be disappointed with the changes but hopefully we can manage without a balloon drop.

I'll be interested to see what they do about the toiletries, large dispensers I assume as lots of other places already have.

 

[Liberal_Baggie]

A number of great step forwards. I will bring my own sail away flags then... I've still got a couple left from the last time!

[MamaFrog]

33 minutes ago, Host Hattie said:

They all sound like sensible things to do, I am sure some people will be disappointed with the changes but hopefully we can manage without a balloon drop.

I'll be interested to see what they do about the toiletries, large dispensers I assume as lots of other places already have.

 

 

Hi Hattie

 

Have never been up late enough for the balloon drop 😊

 

I too anticipate large dispensers in bathrooms - but hope quality and variety will be sustained (personally don't like all-in-one products) 

 

Will be interested to hear fellow travellers opinions as changes come in

 

 

[majortom10]

Can only be a good move but no doubt there will be some that disagree and moan.

[chengkp75]

As far as the cruising public is concerned, about the only thing you will notice will be the reduction in single use plastics.  Everything else is pretty much behind the scenes.  Not surprised this statement has come out, as it is part of the mandated settlement of Carnival Corp's environmental probation violations.  Unfortunately, despite statements like this in the past, Carnival Corp has shown little progress in complying with environmental regulations, let alone leading the way in environmentalism.  While Cunard ships only accounted for 7% of the reported environmental violations during the first year (2018) of probation, the QM2 was the unfortunate leader with 22 violations.  We can only hope that the new program of potential daily fines for failure to meet compliance benchmarks ($1 million/day for the first 10 days, then $10 million/day afterwards) will work better than the single fines Carnival Corp and its subsidiary lines have been receiving for 26 years.

[BigMac1953]

All sounds great, but why then did they stop using glass bottles for water in QG last year (on both QE and QM2) and replace them with 1 litre plastic bottles?

[PORT ROYAL]

3 hours ago, MamaFrog said:

Greetings all,

 

Wondering what to expect from Cunard's new environmental measures, detailed here 

https://www.cunard.com/en-gb/advice-and-policies/environment?utm_medium=email&utm_source=ECN1160&utm_campaign=brand&utm_term=CU-27363703&utm_content=cta_main

 

Would be grateful for any reviews of the changes as they are implemented 🙂

 

Thanks

 

 

Thought Only

The interesting one is butter, no longer wrapped in wrapped in single pats.  

Possibly butter being replaced with a "gloop" from a dispenser, as butter has to be kept chilled, and when chilled solidifies.  For butter to be dispensed, "butter" must contain additives to increase the fluidity and make it dispensable.  

Any chemical additives will be less expensive than butter.

Thereby, for Carnival it could be a win/win situation, it complies with regulations and saves money.

Just a thought, not based on any facts.

 

 

 

 

[BigMac1953]

In the Grills, butter has always been served in little curls in a proper butter dish, and not served in wrappers.

Edited June 13, 2019 by BigMac1953

[3rdGenCunarder]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

As far as the cruising public is concerned, about the only thing you will notice will be the reduction in single use plastics.  Everything else is pretty much behind the scenes.  Not surprised this statement has come out, as it is part of the mandated settlement of Carnival Corp's environmental probation violations.  Unfortunately, despite statements like this in the past, Carnival Corp has shown little progress in complying with environmental regulations, let alone leading the way in environmentalism.  While Cunard ships only accounted for 7% of the reported environmental violations during the first year (2018) of probation, the QM2 was the unfortunate leader with 22 violations.  We can only hope that the new program of potential daily fines for failure to meet compliance benchmarks ($1 million/day for the first 10 days, then $10 million/day afterwards) will work better than the single fines Carnival Corp and its subsidiary lines have been receiving for 26 years.

 

My first thought was that this is in response to the probation issue. And although this is on the Cunard site, the wording is about Carnival Corp.

 

It will be interesting to see how they manage some of the food changes at the buffet. What comes to mind first is the wrapped butter and margarine and the little jars of jam. In the dining rooms, these can be served "open," which means back of the house will put portions in dishes, served from large containers instead of individual servings. But how do you manage food safety for things like this in the self-serve areas--QM2's buffet is largely self-serve. 

 

[MamaFrog]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

As far as the cruising public is concerned, about the only thing you will notice will be the reduction in single use plastics.  Everything else is pretty much behind the scenes.  Not surprised this statement has come out, as it is part of the mandated settlement of Carnival Corp's environmental probation violations.  Unfortunately, despite statements like this in the past, Carnival Corp has shown little progress in complying with environmental regulations, let alone leading the way in environmentalism.  While Cunard ships only accounted for 7% of the reported environmental violations during the first year (2018) of probation, the QM2 was the unfortunate leader with 22 violations.  We can only hope that the new program of potential daily fines for failure to meet compliance benchmarks ($1 million/day for the first 10 days, then $10 million/day afterwards) will work better than the single fines Carnival Corp and its subsidiary lines have been receiving for 26 years.

 

Personally I hope that this is more than lip service ...

Quite shocking to read QM2 has made so many  environmental violations!

 

There must be ways forward that don't deplete the hygiene standards previously mentioned  too

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

My first thought was that this is in response to the probation issue. And although this is on the Cunard site, the wording is about Carnival Corp.

 

It will be interesting to see how they manage some of the food changes at the buffet. What comes to mind first is the wrapped butter and margarine and the little jars of jam. In the dining rooms, these can be served "open," which means back of the house will put portions in dishes, served from large containers instead of individual servings. But how do you manage food safety for things like this in the self-serve areas--QM2's buffet is largely self-serve. 

 

Jam is not a "potentially hazardous food", so there is really little concern for food safety there.  Butter, whether individually wrapped or in dishes, once it is out of "temperature control" (stored in something where the temperature can be controlled and monitored, like a reach-in refrigerator or a cold cart), it goes on "time control", and must be discarded after 4 hours.  Once on time control, the food cannot be returned to "temperature control", so whether you leave butter in the dish, or leave wrapped pats in a dish, the butter will be discarded after 4 hours.  As for serving, Carnival is apparently trying out "crocks" of butter, with a crock of clean butter knives and a crock to place your individually used butter knife into for washing.

[3rdGenCunarder]

Just now, chengkp75 said:

Jam is not a "potentially hazardous food", so there is really little concern for food safety there.  Butter, whether individually wrapped or in dishes, once it is out of "temperature control" (stored in something where the temperature can be controlled and monitored, like a reach-in refrigerator or a cold cart), it goes on "time control", and must be discarded after 4 hours.  Once on time control, the food cannot be returned to "temperature control", so whether you leave butter in the dish, or leave wrapped pats in a dish, the butter will be discarded after 4 hours.  As for serving, Carnival is apparently trying out "crocks" of butter, with a crock of clean butter knives and a crock to place your individually used butter knife into for washing.

 

I'm not thinking so much about temperature safety--QM2's buffet puts anything that has to be kept cold on chilled surfaces (until you learn where those are, it can be a challenge to find butter!). I'm thinking about issues of people touching foods that are open. I'm having horrible images of someone "tasting" the jam or swiping a finger into the crock of butter. 😱

[BobBranst]

56 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

I'm not thinking so much about temperature safety--QM2's buffet puts anything that has to be kept cold on chilled surfaces (until you learn where those are, it can be a challenge to find butter!). I'm thinking about issues of people touching foods that are open. I'm having horrible images of someone "tasting" the jam or swiping a finger into the crock of butter. 😱

 

Unfortunately, while it doesn't happen often, things like this do happen.   I have observed individuals on the QM2 picking up food with their fingers and then place it back after "examining" it.   Fortunately, the Kings Court buffet crew does seem to be watching for this and I've seen them remove food items that have been touched (if they happen to see it happening).   Some people ...

[Tonopah]

It does say jam in plastic packets, not glass jars. Although understandable if they remove them, I would be sad to lose the little jars of jam. 

[3rdGenCunarder]

1 hour ago, Tonopah said:

It does say jam in plastic packets, not glass jars. Although understandable if they remove them, I would be sad to lose the little jars of jam. 

 

No, it doesn't say jam in plastic packets. The wording is vague enough to cover a variety of "single serve" items and containers. I expect similar statements to appear on sister lines' websites. The way this is written, a lot of it can be picked up and tweaked to apply to other lines. I just looked at HAL, Princess, and Costa, and only Princess had something about environmental stewardship. 

 

I suppose, since glass can be recycled, the little jam jars might survive. I think Bonne Maman is a good brand, and I buy it at home. I just wish the little jars were easier to open. 

 

[Tonopah]

2 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

No, it doesn't say jam in plastic packets. 

 

Well, the name of the section is “Single-use plastics”.

[3rdGenCunarder]

2 hours ago, BobBranst said:

 

Unfortunately, while it doesn't happen often, things like this do happen.   I have observed individuals on the QM2 picking up food with their fingers and then place it back after "examining" it.   Fortunately, the Kings Court buffet crew does seem to be watching for this and I've seen them remove food items that have been touched (if they happen to see it happening).   Some people ...

 

Good to know that they're trying to stay on top of these transgressions. 

[Bigmike911]

Well they could replace small plastic bottles of toiletries with small recyclable glass bottles. When I stayed at the old Waldorf in NYC their Penhaligon toiletries came in glass bottles. I still have a couple. 

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, Bigmike911 said:

Well they could replace small plastic bottles of toiletries with small recyclable glass bottles. When I stayed at the old Waldorf in NYC their Penhaligon toiletries came in glass bottles. I still have a couple. 

Toiletries are not really the issue for Carnival Corp, since everything that comes out of your stateroom is hand sorted by the cabin stewards into the proper waste stream.  The problem is with single use plastics and even things like the foil wrapper on butter that gets mixed with the food waste when the table is cleared.  Since food waste is free to be discharged overboard, when ground up, any contamination by plastic or other non-food waste item becomes a pollution incident.

[frantic36]

My husband and I are hoping this is fleet wide on Carnival including on Seabourn which is our usual cruise line. 

 

It was very shocking and sad for us when we were sailing around Indonesia Singapore up to Hong Kong early this year the amount of plastic rubbish in the Ocean. We hadn't sailed this area for a few years and the increase was frightening. 

 

I understand that a lot of other vessels rather than cruise ship contributes to the waste but I think it is great for every effort someone makes to reduce the impact. 

 

We have certainly made more modifications to our habits with regards recycling and limiting use of plastics.

 

Julie

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, frantic36 said:

My husband and I are hoping this is fleet wide on Carnival including on Seabourn which is our usual cruise line. 

 

It was very shocking and sad for us when we were sailing around Indonesia Singapore up to Hong Kong early this year the amount of plastic rubbish in the Ocean. We hadn't sailed this area for a few years and the increase was frightening. 

 

I understand that a lot of other vessels rather than cruise ship contributes to the waste but I think it is great for every effort someone makes to reduce the impact. 

 

We have certainly made more modifications to our habits with regards recycling and limiting use of plastics.

 

Julie

The vast majority of the plastic waste in the oceans is not caused by ships, whether cruise or cargo.  It is from land, where it washes down rivers and from harbors.

[frantic36]

Just now, chengkp75 said:

The vast majority of the plastic waste in the oceans is not caused by ships, whether cruise or cargo.  It is from land, where it washes down rivers and from harbors.

 

Unfortunately I have to agree with you having travelled in these areas. I guess I am thinking I can't do anything to change that but I can at least try to modify my behaviour to reduce the impact.

[MamaFrog]

24 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

 The problem is with single use plastics and even things like the foil wrapper on butter that gets mixed with the food waste when the table is cleared.  Since food waste is free to be discharged overboard, when ground up, any contamination by plastic or other non-food waste item becomes a pollution incident.

Thank you for that clarification 🙂

Also for the information about jam and butter; sounds like the 'crocks' may work out well and certainly preferable to the gloop mentioned in another post!

 

Sounds like there are ways forward  

[MamaFrog]

8 hours ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

I'm not thinking so much about temperature safety--QM2's buffet puts anything that has to be kept cold on chilled surfaces (until you learn where those are, it can be a challenge to find butter!). I'm thinking about issues of people touching foods that are open. I'm having horrible images of someone "tasting" the jam or swiping a finger into the crock of butter. 😱

 

Goodness gracious! I appreciate etiquette and manners have been somewhat in decline across past decades but I can't imagine people with such little decorum would escape notice and correction on QM2 - if not from the stewards from the passengers themselves.