Do all restaurants have sommeliers?

[zitsky]

I am on the Equinox.  Do most restaurants have sommeliers?  Sounds nice but I have seen a few reviews where they don't give you service.  I am used to ordering on my own.  Have you ever had a bad sommelier?

[GastroGnome]

I've not had a "bad" one - but definitely an inattentive one and a not very well informed one. (Different ones)  I know my wines and need no assistance - but we've had some  very odd suggestions when wines on the menu have been unavailable.  Port as an alternative to Riesling for example!

 

They are not intrusive.  If you ask for help they will give it, if you are happy as you are they will let you be.  They do store open bottles away from the tables so they can be attentive and pour your wine - which is fine if you do but slightly annoying if they don't!  If you want your glass refilled and the sommelier has missed it I just ask the nearest passing wait staff - they take the point fairly quickly.

[jelayne]

Yes there are sommeliers in each restaurant, the larger the venues have more than 1.

I’m not sure what you mean by a bad sommelier.  We have had some that weren’t very knowledgeable, (i.e., making recommendations only from the wine list, lacked knowledge of a number of wine regions) and  and some who were outstanding.  We have had excellent service and occasionally slow service

[zitsky]

Fair enough.  I would use the to know what to avoid, for example northern California wines from east bay or to find wines from places I do like, Paso Robles, Willamette Valley, Walla Walla most of Europe.  Is that expecting too much?

[zitsky]

1 minute ago, jelayne said:

Yes there are sommeliers in each restaurant, the larger the venues have more than 1.

I’m not sure what you mean by a bad sommelier.  We have had some that weren’t very knowledgeable, (i.e., making recommendations only from the wine list, lacked knowledge of a number of wine regions) and  and some who were outstanding.  We have had excellent service and occasionally slow service

 

That's what I call a bad sommelier.  I am an amateur so I expect them to know more than me.

[sjb317]

We were on Equinox a few weeks ago. Our sommeliers in the MDR and Tuscan Grill were running around like crazy trying to get everyone served.  Tuscan Grill seemed fairly busy the night we dined there and I noticed there appeared to be only one sommelier so I asked her and she said yes, it was just her. 

 

I don’t know how many tables our MDR sommelier was responsible for but he was busy each night. A table of 10 seemed to monopolize him each night, they were trying lots of different wines and kept him hopping.

 

They were not “bad” sommeliers, just not the best service but I did not feel it was their fault as they were trying the best they could to keep up.

 

Sherri🙂

Edited July 13, 2019 by sjb317

[hancock]

Are you talking sommeliers or wine stewards?  There is a big difference.  A sommelier has had a very extensive education about wine.  They wear a cup on an elaborate chain around the neck for wine tasting.  They have earned the right to wear it.

 You are more than likely being served by wine stewards.  They do not have the education of a sommelier.  It has been some time since we have been on a Celebrity ship.  Years ago they did have a sommelier onboard.  Thought they were being phased out.

[bEwAbG]

Save yourself some heartache and take a wine class before your cruise so you know generally what to choose.  You can peruse wine lists on Cruise Critic to get a sense of what is available. 

 

Sommeliers on cruise ships are primarily there to collect your money and push whatever products the head sommelier has chosen.  You are not getting a real sommelier experience on a Celebrity ship.  Some are better than others.  They're all way too busy to do their job well.  Tables that try to monopolize their time exacerbate the staffing issue. 

[Barwick Cruiser]

4 minutes ago, hancock said:

Are you talking sommeliers or wine stewards?  There is a big difference.  A sommelier has had a very extensive education about wine.  They wear a cup on an elaborate chain around the neck for wine tasting.  They have earned the right to wear it.

 You are more than likely being served by wine stewards.  They do not have the education of a sommelier.  It has been some time since we have been on a Celebrity ship.  Years ago they did have a sommelier onboard.  Thought they were being phased out.

I would agree here, the last few cruises we've been on I haven't seen any actual sommeliers...to gain the actual accreditation of a sommelier is a long process and you wouldn't get to that status without more knowledge than the onboard wine stewards have.  Although some of the wine stewards have very good wine knowledge there are definitely those who know less than me...and I've set the bar low lol.  

 

The best advice I could give is to let your wine steward know what you like to drink at home ie Sauv Blanc from NZ and see what they come up with.  Most of them will try their best and accommodate and if you don't like what they give you then ask for something different, letting them know why you don't like that particular one so they can adjust their selection.  Also, we always ask for the wine steward before ordering any food...find we get faster service that way as they don't want to hold up the food ordering pace.  Of course I drink white with everything and NZ Sauv Blanc is my go to so ymmv!!

 

Oh, and don't think you have to order only from the present restaurants wine list...you can order off menu for something that's a favourite and they'll be happy to get it for you!

 

Enjoy your cruise OP!!

[zitsky]

28 minutes ago, Barwick Cruiser said:

I would agree here, the last few cruises we've been on I haven't seen any actual sommeliers...to gain the actual accreditation of a sommelier is a long process and you wouldn't get to that status without more knowledge than the onboard wine stewards have.  Although some of the wine stewards have very good wine knowledge there are definitely those who know less than me...and I've set the bar low lol.  

 

The best advice I could give is to let your wine steward know what you like to drink at home ie Sauv Blanc from NZ and see what they come up with.  Most of them will try their best and accommodate and if you don't like what they give you then ask for something different, letting them know why you don't like that particular one so they can adjust their selection.  Also, we always ask for the wine steward before ordering any food...find we get faster service that way as they don't want to hold up the food ordering pace.  Of course I drink white with everything and NZ Sauv Blanc is my go to so ymmv!!

 

Oh, and don't think you have to order only from the present restaurants wine list...you can order off menu for something that's a favourite and they'll be happy to get it for you!

 

Enjoy your cruise OP!!

 

I know there is a classic menu, premium and bottle list.  Can anyone order from any of those?  Will the wine steward tell you what is off the menu?  I suppose you say what you like and they tell you what's available?

[Reel Love]

1 hour ago, zitsky said:

I am on the Equinox.  Do most restaurants have sommeliers?  Sounds nice but I have seen a few reviews where they don't give you service.  I am used to ordering on my own.  Have you ever had a bad sommelier?

Yes, we have had a bad sommelier.  I won't go into any specific details but he was absolutely horrible..... offered poor wine suggestions, brought the wrong wine (and the cheapest!) but nastily insisted it was what I had ordered, terrible service, and had the most arrogant attitude I have ever encountered from any staff member out of all my cruises with Celebrity.  And I don't say this lightly as we are folks who always speak very highly of the service onboard Celebrity and yes take into account how busy staff are.  We were chatting with the table next to us later in the evening and they had the exact same experience as we did with this same sommelier.  Fortunately for us this was the only bad sommelier we have encountered.  

hancock you made an excellent point about sommelier vs. wine steward.  In our case I guess I just assumed he was the sommelier as his name tag matched the "placard" on the table with our wait staffs names, and it said "sommelier" on the placard.  I will be more aware of this distinction on our next cruise.

 

Edited July 13, 2019 by Reel Love

[Barwick Cruiser]

9 minutes ago, zitsky said:

 

I know there is a classic menu, premium and bottle list.  Can anyone order from any of those?  Will the wine steward tell you what is off the menu?  I suppose you say what you like and they tell you what's available?

Depending on which package you have, you can order from any menu and they will let you know if your choice is within your package or if there's an upcharge.  We had the premium package last cruise on the Reflection in January and my usual order was Villa Maria SB...wasn't listed on the menu in every venue but that's what I'd ask for and it was never a problem.  We dined in the MDR as well as each of the Specialities.  On our previous cruise we only had the Classic package and I'd just ask for a Sauv Blanc in the Classic package and was always accommodated without an upcharge.  I know some of the glasses I drank weren't within the package limits but it never seemed to be an issue.  Maybe I just was lucky but it was less of a worry than I'd thought it would be.  

Edited July 13, 2019 by Barwick Cruiser

[Bo1953]

I must add, the best wine steward we have ever had was on Millie...

 

As his time permitted, he did a wine tasting for us at dinner for each course, three (3) at most... it was a fantastic experience for the six (6) of us.

 

He also provided wines which were not on the wine menu, which were even better!

 

My simple question the second night was 'will you provide us with wines that we would not normally ask for and that we need to know about, and did he ever.

 

Cheers and bon voyage

[zitsky]

2 minutes ago, Bo1953 said:

I must add, the best wine steward we have ever had was on Millie...

 

As his time permitted, he did a wine tasting for us at dinner for each course, three (3) at most... it was a fantastic experience for the six (6) of us.

 

He also provided wines which were not on the wine menu, which were even better!

 

My simple question the second night was 'will you provide us with wines that we would not normally ask for and that we need to know about, and did he ever.

 

Cheers and bon voyage

 

Great experience!   Were you ordering bottles for the table or by the glass?

 

So I understand I should be able to order whatever and there is an upcharge. 

Edited July 13, 2019 by zitsky

[K12Guy]

2 hours ago, hancock said:

Are you talking sommeliers or wine stewards? 

Thank you, so much! On one cruise several years ago we had a WONDERFUL sommelier (Yan, from China) aboard the Solstice on an Australia/New Zealand itinerary. Yan was assigned to Luminae and was very knowledgeable about the various wines available and the pairings. Then there was a wine 'steward' in Murano, who didn't have a clue, honestly. I asked for a specific wine to pair with my entree and he brought something else, saying, "You will like this better". I didn't care for his recommended wine and asked for a glass of the wine I had requested. I never got that wine or anything else. We cancelled the last three reservations for Murano and dined in Luminae. So, yes, there may be a HUGE difference between someone who is assigned as 'wine steward' and the person who has earned the title of sommelier.

[keesar]

33 minutes ago, Bo1953 said:

I must add, the best wine steward we have ever had was on Millie...

 

As his time permitted, he did a wine tasting for us at dinner for each course, three (3) at most... it was a fantastic experience for the six (6) of us.

 

He also provided wines which were not on the wine menu, which were even better!

 

My simple question the second night was 'will you provide us with wines that we would not normally ask for and that we need to know about, and did he ever.

 

Cheers and bon voyage

 

We had a similar positive experience on the Equinox a couple of months ago.  There was only one rose on the wine menu.  I asked if there were others available and different ones appeared on subsequent evenings until we found one we loved...

[Baron Barracuda]

On our last two S class sailings there were only 2 sommeliers covering the entire mdr lower level.  Service was incredibly slow and they had little time to chat with folks seeking recommendations.  Fetching a special bottle for a guest meant leaving the floor for several minutes.  

[markeb]

Several people on this thread have hit on one of the dirty little secrets of the wine industry: "sommelier" is not a protected title. It's a job or duty, with no real qualifications. And you see that in many of comments in this thread. These are people acting as wine stewards who's position has been given the title of sommelier. But they are (maybe a few exceptions) not a certified sommelier, advanced sommelier, and certainly not a master sommelier, having passed the tests, paid their dues, and earned the right to use those titles (I'm pretty sure those titles are trademarked and can only be used by those with the credentials).

 

Although a lot of press and popular culture attached to sommeliers deals with blind tastings and recognition of frequently obscure wines, the reality is much of the training and testing relate to the service aspects of working in a restaurant. A good sommelier is amazing; shipboard wine servers typically are OK to good, but you really have to experience a Michelin starred restaurant or equivalent to appreciate what a true certified or advanced sommelier can do.

[vtcruising]

We have a had a variety of experiences, mostly depending upon the wine steward's experience. Not only do the more experienced ones generally have more knowledge, but they seem to have more independence in broadening the experience for guests. I have found that if they have been with X a number of years, they feel empowered to offer something  of quality that is not on the menu sold by the glass.  We have had some great experiences once we let them know that we are somewhat discerning about our wine and like to try new things. The newer people, in addition to having less knowledge, I think are more apt to play it safe and sell what they are told to sell.

 

Sometimes, even the experienced ones are not allowed to think outside the box.  We had a wonderful wine steward a few years back with 3-4 years on X and she was amazing with letting us try different wines in Blu (and saved Riedel glasses for us each night). We were so happy to see her again a couple of years ago on a different ship in Luminae (now with 7 years of experience). She apologized for not being able to open bottles not on the menu to drink by the glass. She muttered a few things about her boss being tight with the wine. I'm not sure if she meant the F&B Manager or the Head Wine Steward, but she was very happy to be leaving the ship soon thereafter. She said she likes to feel free to offer different wines to her customers who like trying new things.

 

Overall, we have had positive experiences with wine stewards on X, but it is a bit of the luck of the draw.

[George C]

On recent infinity sommelier in luminae was just pushing wines he was trying to get rid of. I rarely want help , I know what we like.

[zitsky]

Just now, George C said:

On recent infinity sommelier in luminae was just pushing wines he was trying to get rid of. I rarely want help , I know what we like.

 

I totally understand what you are saying.  I don't often ask for help.  How did you know he was getting rid of them?

[George C]

6 minutes ago, zitsky said:

 

I totally understand what you are saying.  I don't often ask for help.  How did you know he was getting rid of them?

Not totally sure but he was really pushing some, we tasted a few then told him just to bring what I ordered, turns out he was out , so finally he gave us caymus at no extra cost 

[Mynki]

2 hours ago, markeb said:

Several people on this thread have hit on one of the dirty little secrets of the wine industry: "sommelier" is not a protected title. It's a job or duty, with no real qualifications. And you see that in many of comments in this thread. These are people acting as wine stewards who's position has been given the title of sommelier. But they are (maybe a few exceptions) not a certified sommelier, advanced sommelier, and certainly not a master sommelier, having passed the tests, paid their dues, and earned the right to use those titles (I'm pretty sure those titles are trademarked and can only be used by those with the credentials).

 

Although a lot of press and popular culture attached to sommeliers deals with blind tastings and recognition of frequently obscure wines, the reality is much of the training and testing relate to the service aspects of working in a restaurant. A good sommelier is amazing; shipboard wine servers typically are OK to good, but you really have to experience a Michelin starred restaurant or equivalent to appreciate what a true certified or advanced sommelier can do.

 

 

Spot on. Top London restaurants will pay around $150,000 per annum + for a true master sommelier with the right experience. That's in the same ball park as a cruise ship captain! 

The 'sommeliers' onboard are not the real thing and do vary. People often ask about the difference in service between the MDR vs Blu or Luminae. For me the most easily noticeable difference is the 'sommelier'. They have fewer passengers to serve in Blu and Luminae and so you will get them topping up your glasses more often and you will get more chat from them. 

 

[zitsky]

15 minutes ago, George C said:

Not totally sure but he was really pushing some, we tasted a few then told him just to bring what I ordered, turns out he was out , so finally he gave us caymus at no extra cost 

 

I would love to try Caymus but isn't it about $150 a bottle?

[George C]

8 minutes ago, zitsky said:

 

I would love to try Caymus but isn't it about $150 a bottle?

In most restaurants about that, about 70 in a wine store.