Dummies Guide to the Casino

[jangor]

I usually organize a slot pull, so I can answer some of your questions.  You can use cash or establish a casino credit through your ship account using your CC (I have not done a Medallion cruise yet, but assume it is similar).  You determine how much money you want to use in the casino; you can add or subtract from this amount at anytime.  You can be paid in cash (go to the cashier with your ship card) or simply add winnings to your account at each slot machine.  You will be reminded (general announcement) to cash in your balance (assuming Princess has left you with any winnings!) on the last day.  Any casino can be fun, if you establish a budget (I consider how much I might spend to go to a movie or dinner or any other fun event) and expect to lose, but are happy when you win!

[mdpseattle]

21 hours ago, donaldsc said:

 

Regardless of what you do, you will lose.  Also, you will lose faster than if you come to Vegas instead as the games on the ship are not regulated by any governmental body and the odds of better in Vegas.  Not good but better.

 

DON

 

You are correct that they are not regulated by a governmental body and the payback is better on some machines in Vegas, but they are regulated to some extent. I was curious what the facts were. And I love to research to find the actual facts.

 

When it comes to the online casino on Princess Cruise ships, all of the slot machines follow Nevada Gaming rules and laws and have follow the minimum paybacks that the Nevada Gaming commission has set forth, which are at least 80%, but they can select higher when they purchase the slot machine.

 

Most of the major cruise lines belong to a regulatory body called the Cruise Lines International Association, a group created by the cruise lines to set forth rules and regulations that they all will follow.

 

When it comes to slot machines, they operate the same as they do in Nevada.  Cruise lines are not buying or getting special machines that have worse odds than those found in Vegas.  Although many machines in Vegas might pay out more, the cruise machines at least meet the minimum payback required by Nevada law.

 

So, unless Princess is in cahoots with IGT or other slot manufacturers to get machines that benefit them more than the Nevada machines already do, they are basically the same slot machines you'll find in Vegas.

 

https://cruising.org/about-the-industry/policy-priorities/clia-oceangoing-cruise-line-policies/other

[richmke]

4 minutes ago, mdpseattle said:

When it comes to the online casino on Princess Cruise ships, all of the slot machines follow Nevada Gaming rules and laws and have follow the minimum paybacks that the Nevada Gaming commission has set forth, which are at least 80%, but they can select higher when they purchase the slot machine.

...

So, unless Princess is in cahoots with IGT or other slot manufacturers to get machines that benefit them more than the Nevada machines already do, they are basically the same slot machines you'll find in Vegas.

 

 

However, Cruise Ship Slots are not subject to competition from the Casino across the street. 80% payout is rather low. Typical slot payouts are 90-95% in Nevada.

[mdpseattle]

Just now, richmke said:

Typical slot payouts are 90-95% in Nevada.

 

Here's the slot payouts in Vegas:

https://www.americancasinoguide.com/slot-machine-payback-statistics.html#Nevada

 

They average 87-96%

 

And 80% is the minimum required by Nevada law. It doesn't mean the cruise slots are all at the minimum. The truth is we don't know what they are.  It's highly likely they are simply buying the same damn average mix of machines they have in Vegas.

 

Personally, I've played both places A LOT, and I would agree the cruise line slots feel "tighter", but I end up with a similar experience that I do in when I visit Vegas, it's not too terribly different.

 

[Mike45LC]

1 hour ago, mdpseattle said:

And 80% is the minimum required by Nevada law. It doesn't mean the cruise slots are all at the minimum. The truth is we don't know what they are.  It's highly likely they are simply buying the same damn average mix of machines they have in Vegas.

 

 

The casino (whether Vegas or cruise ship) specifies the  payout percentage to the vendor of the machine and the vendor programs that into the machine's chip.  The chip can be switched out to change the payout percentage.  So it is not a question of the cruise line being in cahoots with the manufacturer, or with the cruise line having to buy a special slot machine.  Every machine has to be programmed to the casino's specifications.

[Mike45LC]

I am pretty certain that it is clear from this thread, but I want to mention specifically that the Cruise Card works like a cash card.  I always bet cash only, I never charge to my cabin, although that is allowed. 

 

If I put $100 into a slot machine, whatever is left when I end my session gets credited onto my Cruise Card.  Then, the next time I go to a slot machine, whether two minutes later or two days later,  I play with the funds on the Card.  If I add more cash, the remainder again goes onto the Card.

 

You can cash out whenever you want at the Casino Cage and get your cash, but I don't bother to do so until the last night.

 

[mdpseattle]

3 minutes ago, Mike45LC said:

 

 So it is not a question of the cruise line being in cahoots with the manufacturer, or with the cruise line having to buy a special slot machine.  Every machine has to be programmed to the casino's specifications.

 

The statement that I made was that unless the casino is doing something nefarious, in cahoots with the slot manufacturer they are unable to request a payout lower than the Nevada rules, which is 80%.  The implication of posts on the forum were that somehow the slots of cruise ships are worse payback than those in Nevada.  That is not true (unless they are violating their rules) -- the slots are the same ones found in Nevada.  I think the assumption that many make is that the cruise lines are out to screw us at any opportunity they can so of course they would set them at 80% and not a percentage point more to make as much profit as possible and also because their isn't competition casino across the street.  The truth is we don't know what the payback is, but it is the same requirement as Nevada.  And based on my personal experience playing the casino slots it is a very similar experience to Vegas land based casinos.  I don't feel like I lose more and faster than I do in Vegas.

[Mike45LC]

If not for the cruise lines' voluntary commitment to abide by the Nevada Gaming Control Board's 80% minimum, the cruise line could simply tell the manufacturer "we want a 72% payback".  The manufacturer would comply. 

 

There is no conspiracy, nothing illicit about it.  Every casino tells the manufacturer what payback to program.  Palace Station, Mirage, Diamond Princess, they all specify the percentage.  And the manufacturer complies.

 

In Vegas (and elsewhere in NV), there is transparency.  We can look up the numbers on-line, they are reported every quarter (or is it monthly?).  At sea, I don't know if the numbers are made public.

 

I personally find the slots much tighter at sea than in Vegas.  But I also admit that my personal experience is NOT anywhere large enough to be statistically significant.  I am not anywhere near that amount of play!!  Thank G_d!!

 

[AndWe]

12 hours ago, mdpseattle said:

 

Here's the slot payouts in Vegas:

https://www.americancasinoguide.com/slot-machine-payback-statistics.html#Nevada

 

They average 87-96%

 

And 80% is the minimum required by Nevada law. It doesn't mean the cruise slots are all at the minimum. The truth is we don't know what they are.  It's highly likely they are simply buying the same damn average mix of machines they have in Vegas.

 

Personally, I've played both places A LOT, and I would agree the cruise line slots feel "tighter", but I end up with a similar experience that I do in when I visit Vegas, it's not too terribly different.

 

I have sailed on the Crown Princess three times.  The first two times, there was a machine (a Heidi beer machine) that paid out great.  Mind you, the pays were $50-max $500, but it was a fun game to play.  I was on the ship in June and they did something to that machine.  Not one person won anything.  I watched it for the 10 days and lose, lose, lose.  Then I noticed that a machine that I hit big on my last trip was also not paying.  Near the end of my trip, I won $850 on a $1 machine and immediately changed machines to another $1 machine that paid me $750.  Later that evening I noticed a creepy looking man in a suit opening all the machines I had just won on and he was adjusting some wires!!  I asked him if he was rigging the machines -- if looks could kill.  He was not just changing the paper, but had tools and all the wires out of the machine and was re-routing them.  Hum, makes you wonder.  I will be on the Golden Princess soon, so I hope that one isn't as slimy.  I will never said on the Crown again.

[mdpseattle]

5 hours ago, AndWe said:

I have sailed on the Crown Princess three times.  The first two times, there was a machine (a Heidi beer machine) that paid out great.  Mind you, the pays were $50-max $500, but it was a fun game to play.  I was on the ship in June and they did something to that machine.  Not one person won anything.  I watched it for the 10 days and lose, lose, lose.  Then I noticed that a machine that I hit big on my last trip was also not paying.  Near the end of my trip, I won $850 on a $1 machine and immediately changed machines to another $1 machine that paid me $750.  Later that evening I noticed a creepy looking man in a suit opening all the machines I had just won on and he was adjusting some wires!!  I asked him if he was rigging the machines -- if looks could kill.  He was not just changing the paper, but had tools and all the wires out of the machine and was re-routing them.  Hum, makes you wonder.  I will be on the Golden Princess soon, so I hope that one isn't as slimy.  I will never said on the Crown again.

 

I want to be clear that I'm not disagreeing with you.  It's very possible Princess Cruises is rigging the machines and doing something to alter paybacks on a whim.  And I agree that that might be doing it.

 

BUT... here is a problem I have.  If it's possible to rig the game, some people would certainly take advantage of this for their personal gain.  If you were in charge of rigging a machine for Princess, you could do a little extra rigging to your benefit and then tell your family or friends to go play that game and win all the money.  So... it would actually be in Princess best interested to have a fair and balanced machine that can't be rigged.  For their benefit mostly and indirectly ours too.  Still doesn't mean they don't set the payback to the minimum 80% required by Vegas law, but I doubt they can be rigged. 

[AndWe]

3 hours ago, mdpseattle said:

 

I want to be clear that I'm not disagreeing with you.  It's very possible Princess Cruises is rigging the machines and doing something to alter paybacks on a whim.  And I agree that that might be doing it.

 

BUT... here is a problem I have.  If it's possible to rig the game, some people would certainly take advantage of this for their personal gain.  If you were in charge of rigging a machine for Princess, you could do a little extra rigging to your benefit and then tell your family or friends to go play that game and win all the money.  So... it would actually be in Princess best interested to have a fair and balanced machine that can't be rigged.  For their benefit mostly and indirectly ours too.  Still doesn't mean they don't set the payback to the minimum 80% required by Vegas law, but I doubt they can be rigged. 

This guy was so creepy looking I don't think he has any friends --- hahahhahaha

[richmke]

On 8/9/2019 at 5:18 PM, mdpseattle said:

The statement that I made was that unless the casino is doing something nefarious, in cahoots with the slot manufacturer they are unable to request a payout lower than the Nevada rules, which is 80%. 

 

Since CCL (including Princess) is not governed by NV law, there would be nothing "nefarious" about requesting a machine with a payout lower than 80%. I doubt that Princess is getting machines lower than 80%

 

> The implication of posts on the forum were that somehow the slots of cruise ships are

> worse payback than those in Nevada.

 

I would argue that Princess slots are worse payback than those in Las Vegas.

 

> That is not true (unless they are violating their rules) -- the slots are the same ones found in Nevada.

 

Just because Nevada has an 80% minimum does not mean that all slots are at 80%. In fact, the reports indicate that slots are around 90-95%. So, Princess could be "worse payback" than those in Las Vegas, even if they are higher than the Nevada minimum.

 

>  I think the assumption that many make is that the cruise lines are out to screw us at any opportunity they can

> so of course they would set them at 80% and not a percentage point more to make as much profit as possible

> and also because their isn't competition casino across the street.

 

I'm not saying that Princess sets them at 80%. Heck, they could set them at 90% and still be worse than most places in Las Vegas. You are naive if you think the lack of competition on a Cruise Ship would not affect payout rates. If there was only one place to gamble in Las Vegas, then they would probably be a lot closer to the 80% minimum. Because of competition, the casinos in Las Vegas have to raise their payout rates to attract customers. The LV airport is notorious for having low payouts. Captive audience (people waiting for their plane). I'm guessing that small towns are similar.

 

I doubt that Princess has a payout ratio of 80%. If the cruise line gained a reputation for being really stingy, then real gamblers will cruise on other lines. My guess is that Princess has a payout a little less (3-5%?) than Las Vegas in order to keep gamblers happy enough.

 

> The truth is we don't know what the payback is, but it is the same requirement as Nevada.

 

The "requirement" is the minimum payout. The real issue is whether Princess is competitive to the average Las Vegas casino (which is way more than the minimum). That is where Princess is competing for the vacation $$$'s. 

 

> And based on my personal experience playing the casino slots it is a very similar experience to Vegas land based casinos. 

> I don't feel like I lose more and faster than I do in Vegas.

 

You can set the odds of the slot so that "you don't feel like you lose more and faster". The odds could be the same as Las Vegas for the low payouts (not losing more and faster). If they set the jackpot really tight, then that can make a real difference to the Casino. They take your $100 over the course of the evening (lots of small wins to you to keep you entertained), and you are a happy camper. By rarely having to pay out the $10,000 big prize, they make a lot more money. You never notice it, because you don't expect to win the big prize.

 

 

[neverbeenhere]

We've sailed on the Crown numerous times, I can tell you for a fact that the creepy looking guy was changing the paper, it's the cute guy with the blonde hair that rigs the machines. But, he always does it around 4 am. 

[AndWe]

😂🤣😂🤣

[POF1234]

On 8/4/2019 at 9:40 PM, Lucky TGO said:

Hi Mr. G. It’s too bad  you can’t bet on the Patriots to win another Super Bowl on the ship. 😩

You could win enough to pay for your next cruise.😁😁 

Your Pal,

 

 

GOOOO PATS - I live 5 miles from the stadium.  

[Lucky TGO]

33 minutes ago, POF1234 said:

 

 

GOOOO PATS - I live 5 miles from the stadium.  

 

Wow that’s good to know. I will be over breakfast before the games. Just kidding  😁😁😁😁.

 

[POF1234]

15 hours ago, Lucky TGO said:

 

Wow that’s good to know. I will be over breakfast before the games. Just kidding  😁😁😁😁.

 

No problem ! !!!!!

[c-boy]

what happening here  

 

[Cinerama]

I miss the $60 buy in for poker. Top two players split the winnings. Now you lose money each round to Princess. 

[USCcruisecrazy]

Simple rule:  never gamble with money you are not willing to part with...then it doesn't matter what the payouts are.  If you win something, it's bonus.  For the record...the massive casino/hotels in Vegas are paid for almost exclusively through slots.  The gaming tables are just a way to bring in the high rollers and potential for a big take by the casino.  But don't think for a minute it's not the slots that pay the bills!!

[Mike_DeA]

On 8/8/2019 at 8:30 PM, donaldsc said:

 

In high stakes hold-em tournaments, you are basically playing against the other players.  So, if you are better at poker or better at bluffing or if the other players are really bad, you can come out ahead.  However, some of the casinos in Vegas and I believe that some of them on the ships have poker playing machines so I don't know how good the machines are at playing poker.  I do realize that it is sort of hard to bluff a machine.

 

DON

The machines don't "play poker", they just act as the dealer. You're still playing against the other players at your table.  The chips are virtual as well, so you do everything on the touch screen in front of your seat. 

[Mike45LC]

4 hours ago, Mike_DeA said:

The machines don't "play poker", they just act as the dealer. You're still playing against the other players at your table.  The chips are virtual as well, so you do everything on the touch screen in front of your seat. 

 

Mike, for the poker tables I have seen on the ships, you are correct.  They are multi-player, and the computer is merely the dealer.

 

However, there are some video poker games in Vegas where you do play against the computer.  I have seen Texas Hold-Em with the computer as a player.  Kind of like the BJ video games, but for BJ, the dealer has no discretion on how to play.  I do not know how much information the computer retains and works with as to your playing style.  

 

[AmazedByCruising]

2 minutes ago, Mike45LC said:

 

However, there are some video poker games in Vegas where you do play against the computer. 

 

Really? People were better than computers at poker till about a year ago.  If the machine does know when to call your bluff or to fold,  is it supposed to make mistakes once in a while to still pay out 80%? 

 

[suzyed]

If the slots are ones to pay the casino back the most....how come slot players don't get the perks the table players get?

[Mike45LC]

13 hours ago, suzyed said:

If the slots are ones to pay the casino back the most....how come slot players don't get the perks the table players get?

Slot players get much higher comps than table players do.  As a table player, this is one of my frequent complaints.   Video Poker gets a lower rate of comps than slot players (roughly 50% of the slot play comps), because the expected rate of return for the casino is lower.  

 

Play BlackJack for $5 per hand for 10 hours straight, and you will get zero -- literally!  Most casinos don't bother to rate anyone playing less than $25 (or higher) per hand.  And even the large bettors don't get as much in perks as the same size bettors on slots.