Princess not honoring a 20% discount letter received during a cruise

[Mike45LC]

2 hours ago, Daniel A said:

This matter isn't going to end up in court anyway so we will never know what would happen.  You never know what can happen - that's why so many frivolous cases get settled with a cash payment.  Lawyers know you cannot predict an outcome with certainty.

Most frivolous cases settle due to the horrendous expense of litigation, not really because of uncertainty as to the result.  I can pay you $X to go away, but if we litigate all the way, it will cost 100 times that much in costs, attorneys fee and aggravation -- I'll throw some peanuts to you to go away!

 

[Steelers36]

2 hours ago, mamkmm2 said:

And even when they finally changed their system to accept the letter as written, they won’t discuss their math.  We took the lowest value of the cruise, minus all discounts, minus a $100 deposit, and the amount they gave us was still half of what they would only semi explain to our TA after the fact.

I do not understand your post about Princess calculations.  It sounds like in your case, they re-calculated the FCC for some reason.  Either that, or it doesn't seem you are being clear in explaining it. 

 

If you consider @cheeseclan's post below, they indicate - as I would expect - that the FCC was posted in their Captain's Circle account and it was clear to see before they ever requested it be applied to a booking.  I believe you too should have had an amount posted into your Captain's Circle account waiting to be used.  There should have been no question about the amount when you began to have difficulty applying it to your booking.  I appreciate that your issue stemmed from what type of booking would be eligible to apply the FCC to, but the amount should have been established when your cruise ended if not before.

 

1 hour ago, cheeseclan said:

I guess I don’t understand something. How can you only get $75??  
We figured out the amount due while on the ship since I had paperwork to show me what the basic cruise fare was.  When I got home from the cruise I saw that credited amount in our cruise personalizer immediately saying it was a voyage goodwill credit.  
I don’t think it has anything to do with you paving the way.  My agent got a hold of someone that knows what the heck they are doing at Princess.  She said he saw the credit in our profile and that was it.

 

[mamkmm2]

2 hours ago, cheeseclan said:

I guess I don’t understand something. How can you only get $75??  
We figured out the amount due while on the ship since I had paperwork to show me what the basic cruise fare was.  When I got home from the cruise I saw that credited amount in our cruise personalizer immediately saying it was a voyage goodwill credit.  
I don’t think it has anything to do with you paving the way.  My agent got a hold of someone that knows what the heck they are doing at Princess.  She said he saw the credit in our profile and that was it.

 

this of course is IMHO

 

We called as soon as we were back from the cruise. We went up several supervisory levels. They were not going to honor the letter and they didn’t care. It wasn’t until we mentioned that we would be speaking to a lawyer and putting it on Cruise critic that we were forwarded to anybody that would listen but they still said because it was in the system like that”. He took two levels of management above that before we got a positive response. YMMV

 

I’m not going to belabor the point because they did remove the arbitrary date out of their system and corrected their failure.  $75 was all we received. We got an outstanding deal on the cruise. But the math still doesn’t add up.   And that is from princess directly. It isn’t the amount it was the principle of the thing.  I am considering this a done deal. However it is a lesson not to simply except whatever they want to tell you. Sometimes you have to advocate for yourself.

Edited November 1, 2019 by mamkmm2

[mamkmm2]

35 minutes ago, steelers36 said:

I do not understand your post about Princess calculations.  It sounds like in your case, they re-calculated the FCC for some reason.  Either that, or it doesn't seem you are being clear in explaining it. 

 

If you consider @cheeseclan's post below, they indicate - as I would expect - that the FCC was posted in their Captain's Circle account and it was clear to see before they ever requested it be applied to a booking.  I believe you too should have had an amount posted into your Captain's Circle account waiting to be used.  There should have been no question about the amount when you began to have difficulty applying it to your booking.  I appreciate that your issue stemmed from what type of booking would be eligible to apply the FCC to, but the amount should have been established when your cruise ended if not before.

 

 

The problem is people aren’t reading. New bookings were not the issue. Existing bookings booked before a date they arbitrarily applied after the letter went out saying ANY existing cruise not yet paid in full was the problem. Princess refused to honor their “any” clause. It doesn’t matter if an amount appeared in the CC or not, they can still say what cruise you can apply that to and which you will be denied on. 

[Steelers36]

2 minutes ago, mamkmm2 said:

The problem is people aren’t reading. New bookings were not the issue. Existing bookings booked before a date they arbitrarily applied after the letter went out saying ANY existing cruise not yet paid in full was the problem. Princess refused to honor their “any” clause. It doesn’t matter if an amount appeared in the CC or not, they can still say what cruise you can apply that to and which you will be denied on. 

It is not my problem.  I have read it all and I understand your main issue.  What I do not understand the amount side of it.  You should have had an amount posted in your Captain's Circle account as a FCC that represented the 20% calculation.  Same as @cheeseclan.  Were you aware of this?  It seems from your posts that Princess was (re)calculating your amount when it should have already been done and posted in your account.  Therefore, the only dispute should have been its applicability and you have described that part at length.

[mamkmm2]

1 minute ago, steelers36 said:

It is not my problem.  I have read it all and I understand your main issue.  What I do not understand the amount side of it.  You should have had an amount posted in your Captain's Circle account as a FCC that represented the 20% calculation.  Same as @cheeseclan.  Were you aware of this?  It seems from your posts that Princess was (re)calculating your amount when it should have already been done and posted in your account.  Therefore, the only dispute should have been its applicability and you have described that part at length.

No there was no credited amount. That is what started the whole conversation that apparently it “didn’t matter anyway” because our existing cruise fell outside their post-letter stipulation. 
 

To add insult to injury we had several people at Princess tell us to “simply book a new cruise with our 3 for free sale and it won’t matter.”  

[Steelers36]

16 minutes ago, mamkmm2 said:

No there was no credited amount. That is what started the whole conversation that apparently it “didn’t matter anyway” because our existing cruise fell outside their post-letter stipulation. 
 

To add insult to injury we had several people at Princess tell us to “simply book a new cruise with our 3 for free sale and it won’t matter.”  

So that is the crux of your situation - monetarily.  It seems odd that with the letters given out to passengers, and at least one other passenger reporting that they had a calculated FCC in their account, that you - and perhaps some others - were bypassed.  

 

Seems to me you should have had a pre-calculated amount on file.  Indeed, you should have been able to approximate your own expected FCC, knowing your base fare.  

 

Yes, at first they were telling you that an existing cruise you had booked did not qualify, but that would not have stopped you from making a new booking and qualifying under their originally-stated stipulations (not saying you should have; just using it for example).  I was just curious about where your amount was and why it was being calculated on the fly, so to speak, by Princess when the time came to apply it.

 

"Some people have all the luck...".

 

Edited November 1, 2019 by steelers36

[cheeseclan]

Ours was placed on to a pre existing cruise that I booked months ago.  Still don’t understand what happened to the OP.  Very easy to figure out the amount owed.  I would have your TA or you call them back and get the money owed to you.

[frugaltravel]

15 minutes ago, cheeseclan said:

Ours was placed on to a pre existing cruise that I booked months ago.  Still don’t understand what happened to the OP.  Very easy to figure out the amount owed.  I would have your TA or you call them back and get the money owed to you.

They tried that multiple times without much success of you read the entire thread.

[mamkmm2]

23 minutes ago, cheeseclan said:

Ours was placed on to a pre existing cruise that I booked months ago.  Still don’t understand what happened to the OP.  Very easy to figure out the amount owed.  I would have your TA or you call them back and get the money owed to you.

 I'd be interested in knowing what date they applied it because they were telling us as late as yesterday that they were not doing it … not for us and not for anyone that booked it before Oct 1 2019.  Of the people I met on the cruise and exchanged info with, those with existing bookings that wanted to use the discount amount towards were having the same issue until yesterday afternoon.  Some had the amount already in their CC and some did not.  

[mamkmm2]

40 minutes ago, steelers36 said:

So that is the crux of your situation - monetarily.  It seems odd that with the letters given out to passengers, and at least one other passenger reporting that they had a calculated FCC in their account, that you - and perhaps some others - were bypassed.  

 

Seems to me you should have had a pre-calculated amount on file.  Indeed, you should have been able to approximate your own expected FCC, knowing your base fare.  

 

Yes, at first they were telling you that an existing cruise you had booked did not qualify, but that would not have stopped you from making a new booking and qualifying under their originally-stated stipulations (not saying you should have; just using it for example).  I was just curious about where your amount was and why it was being calculated on the fly, so to speak, by Princess when the time came to apply it.

 

"Some people have all the luck...".

 

 

As I stated, it wasn't the AMOUNT.  After a certain point that was really immaterial.  It was Princess' absolute refusal to honor the statement they made in a written letter distributed to all passengers.  But as stated, they corrected their failure.  The amount is immaterial.  It is when you tell a customer that you will do something, and then you try to take it back and say essentially I didn't mean what I said, what I really meant was something different, that you are going to run afoul of people willing to do the work necessary to hold you to what you originally offered to do in the written document.

[cheeseclan]

46 minutes ago, mamkmm2 said:

 I'd be interested in knowing what date they applied it because they were telling us as late as yesterday that they were not doing it … not for us and not for anyone that booked it before Oct 1 2019.  Of the people I met on the cruise and exchanged info with, those with existing bookings that wanted to use the discount amount towards were having the same issue until yesterday afternoon.  Some had the amount already in their CC and some did not.  

What date are you asking about:  I booked this cruise many months ago and added the credit on today.  When the TA called Princess she did not bring up the letter just asked them to please apply the credit to our 2021 cruise.  They did with no issues because it was already in our accounts as a voyage goodwill credit.   They did not care why we had it!

[mamkmm2]

1 minute ago, cheeseclan said:

What date are you asking about:  I booked this cruise many months ago and added the credit on today.  When the TA called Princess she did not bring up the letter just asked them to please apply the credit to our 2021 cruise.  They did with no issues because it was already in our accounts as a voyage goodwill credit.   They did not care why we had it!

So you didn't try and use the credit until today?  Then they had already removed the restriction for pre-existing cruises booked prior to Oct 1 2019.  That's why you didn't run into the same problem we had.  They didn't removed the date from the system until yesterday afternoon.  You saw an amount on your Captain's Circle.  That doesn't mean that Princess would have allowed that amount to be used any ol' way if they have exceptions in place.  Trust me, we got the whoooole rundown by multiple supervisors at Princess telling me ad nauseum that they can tell you what you can apply a credit to and what you can't.

[cheeseclan]

Understand what you are saying.  But it has been a credit in our profiles since the Caribbean Princess Cruise.  Never saw a stipulation that I noted.

 

sorry you had issues..

[mamkmm2]

1 minute ago, cheeseclan said:

Understand what you are saying.  But it has been a credit in our profiles since the Caribbean Princess Cruise.  Never saw a stipulation that I noted.

 

sorry you had issues..

 

That was the whole point.  No stipulation in the letter.  And the stipulation wouldn't have shown up until it was triggered in the system.  It wasn't until we tried to get the amount (any amount) applied to our existing cruise that the problem showed up.  And that's when the circular disagreement with Princess started.  It wasn't the amount.  It was that they wouldn't apply any amount because they had gone in and arbitrarily changed the offer in their system.

 

The problem is fixed.  They removed the stipulation yesterday and now that amount (regardless of what it is) can be applied to any existing cruise that is not paid off or any new cruise until the offer runs out at the end of October 2020.

[Expat Cruise]

One way to correct  and address this would be through a credit card dispute. Under those disputes the credit card agreement comes first over the cruise contract. The dispute could be filed on the original cruise payments or on the cruise the 20% is not allowed on.  Costs you nothing to file and it is reasonable that you could win.

 

[TNTLAMB]

The. Credit card dispute wouldn't work as the original  ruise was delivered per the cruise contract.  What's at dispute was a gift from the cruise line. The posters who were on the cruise just started seeing the credits showing up on their Captains Circle account  this week. Some reporting $500.00+ credits.  All makes sense as it takes several weeks to process this info for several thousand passengers and for a gift not in the normal form.

 

The OP on the other hand went to the mattresses. She was warned by several experienced passengers she was going about it the wrong way. Informed by several experienced attorneys on the board (I know those posters) she had little to stand on. She persisted - threats of legal action,  boycotting the cruise line, taking it to the internet etc. Went through 4 levels of management (there aren't that many in that department though she may have been moved around that many times) etc etc. Well she got her special treatment reported here as win.

 

Just as predicted, Princess did a careful calculation and gave each PAX in her cabin $37.50 everybody else who waited for the thing to chug through the departments associated kept calm etc etc. Got 5 times that. Sounds like another honey vs vinegar situation. I see a lot of the here.

Edited November 1, 2019 by TNTLAMB

[Daniel A]

18 minutes ago, TNTLAMB said:

The. Credit card dispute wouldn't work as the original  ruise was delivered per the cruise contract.  What's at dispute was a gift from the cruise line. The posters who were on the cruise just started seeing the credits showing up on their Captains Circle account  this week. Some reporting $500.00+ credits.  All makes sense as it takes several weeks to process this info for several thousand passengers and for a gift not in the normal form.

 

The OP on the other hand went to the mattresses. She was warned by several experienced passengers she was going about it the wrong way. Informed by several experienced attorneys on the board (I know those posters) she had little to stand on. She persisted - threats of legal action,  boycotting the cruise line, taking it to the internet etc. Went through 4 levels of management (there aren't that many in that department though she may have been moved around that many times) etc etc. Well she got her special treatment reported here as win.

 

Just as predicted, Princess did a careful calculation and gave each PAX in her cabin $37.50 everybody else who waited for the thing to chug through the departments associated kept calm etc etc. Got 5 times that. 

Do you really think that's fair?  Just because she stood up for herself in her own way Princess gets to punish her?  If you're correct, now OP has a case since she was treated differently than others who were similarly situated.

[TNTLAMB]

Fair? Dunno, that's the way the world (not just Princess) works and always has.

 

A few years ago I got the 4 teens in my house new Smart phones.  One of those two for one deals. Told them they were coming but would take a while.  3 were thrilled. One was not. Keep in mind these were a gift nothing I had to do. The one was not thrilled decided the phone she should get was some overpriced thing with a picture of a piece of fruit and she wanted it NOW (band trip or somet) She pitched a fit. No problem. I ordered her a separate phone. Not quite a flip phone but close and had it the next day (I kept the smart phone for myself) The neighbors heard her screaming unfair. (We live in the woods closest neighbor is a half mile away) was it unfair, or just a weary person unwilling/unable to do anything different while waiting for the phone so did what I could right away to stop the angst. Far too many  act like entitled spoiled children when dealing with service people. Anyway if you think the OP has a case because someone thinks her gift is unfair..... She seems quite happy because she "showed them and won"

[mamkmm2]

49 minutes ago, TNTLAMB said:

The. Credit card dispute wouldn't work as the original  ruise was delivered per the cruise contract.  What's at dispute was a gift from the cruise line. The posters who were on the cruise just started seeing the credits showing up on their Captains Circle account  this week. Some reporting $500.00+ credits.  All makes sense as it takes several weeks to process this info for several thousand passengers and for a gift not in the normal form.

 

The OP on the other hand went to the mattresses. She was warned by several experienced passengers she was going about it the wrong way. Informed by several experienced attorneys on the board (I know those posters) she had little to stand on. She persisted - threats of legal action,  boycotting the cruise line, taking it to the internet etc. Went through 4 levels of management (there aren't that many in that department though she may have been moved around that many times) etc etc. Well she got her special treatment reported here as win.

 

Just as predicted, Princess did a careful calculation and gave each PAX in her cabin $37.50 everybody else who waited for the thing to chug through the departments associated kept calm etc etc. Got 5 times that. Sounds like another honey vs vinegar situation. I see a lot of the here.

 

Now listen, you weren't  there on the phone and you weren't in my shoes.  As far as the "experience passenger" qualification, I have it.  I also happen to have 30 years owning our own very successful business.  I didn't exit the gate snarling and snapping like a deranged badger.  I can guarantee some of the Princess people we talked with were much ruder than that, like how dare we question what they decreed whether it was in the letter or not.  The fact that they removed the stipulation of the arbitrary date that had not been in the letter to begin with shows that they accepted there had been a failure on their part somewhere along the line.  

 

And the discount was not a "gift".  A "gift" does not come with strings.  It would have been a "gift" had the discounted the then current cruise.  That was not what occurred.  The discount was a way to calm the people on the ship down because two ports were missed and there was some very poor communication going on.  As far as I know no one asked for the discount, they made what I consider a sound business decision to keep current passengers from moving to other cruise lines, to keep it out of the news (there were some passengers willing to go there), to give good public face for all of the first time cruisers on the ship, etc. 

 

What they did wrong was to make an offer in writing then refusing to honor the offer as written.  Yes, we spoke with several contract lawyers - we know them through the nature of our business - and they said the letter was legally enforceable as written and that any arbitrary changes by Princess could have been grounds for a civil case.  Would it have been worth it?  It didn't get that far because Princess acknowledged they were wrong and removed the arbitrary stipulation from their system that was not in the letter as written.  For us it did not amount to much money.  It wasn't the money at issue.  On the other hand for others you are talking in excess of $1000 which would make a difference for them.

 

 

[tothemall&beyond]

On 10/30/2019 at 3:35 PM, dodger1964 said:

must have been a bad October...we also cruised with them (for the first time) on a NE/Canada cruise in October and we missed 1 port because of high winds.

Not a bad October. A typical October. It's still height of hurricane season. And with climate change, each hurricane season gets longer and more intense. If missed ports are going to cause anyone major upset, they should not cruise anywhere in the Atlantic Ocean in September or October.

[TNTLAMB]

1 hour ago, mamkmm2 said:

 

Now listen, you weren't  there on the phone and you weren't in my shoes.  As far as the "experience passenger" qualification, I have it.  I also happen to have 30 years owning our own very successful business.  I didn't exit the gate snarling and snapping like a deranged badger.  I can guarantee some of the Princess people we talked with were much ruder than that, like how dare we question what they decreed whether it was in the letter or not.  The fact that they removed the stipulation of the arbitrary date that had not been in the letter to begin with shows that they accepted there had been a failure on their part somewhere along the line.  

 

And the discount was not a "gift".  A "gift" does not come with strings.  It would have been a "gift" had the discounted the then current cruise.  That was not what occurred.  The discount was a way to calm the people on the ship down because two ports were missed and there was some very poor communication going on.  As far as I know no one asked for the discount, they made what I consider a sound business decision to keep current passengers from moving to other cruise lines, to keep it out of the news (there were some passengers willing to go there), to give good public face for all of the first time cruisers on the ship, etc. 

 

What they did wrong was to make an offer in writing then refusing to honor the offer as written.  Yes, we spoke with several contract lawyers - we know them through the nature of our business - and they said the letter was legally enforceable as written and that any arbitrary changes by Princess could have been grounds for a civil case.  Would it have been worth it?  It didn't get that far because Princess acknowledged they were wrong and removed the arbitrary stipulation from their system that was not in the letter as written.  For us it did not amount to much money.  It wasn't the money at issue.  On the other hand for others you are talking in excess of $1000 which would make a difference for them.

 

 

This "gift" does indeed come with strings. It was in the form of a Future Cruise Deposit (credit). There are more strings attached to a future cruise credit than you find in a marionette show. one of the biggest is that not every Fare class is eligible for a FCD. In fact anyone who has cruised any length of time and is a careful shopper usually buys a cruise that is NOT eligible for a Future Cruise credit. If you do that $100.00 OBC comes at an awfully high price and you likely paid too much for cruise. Few promotions and deals flash sales etc qualify. I dunno about the arbitrary Dates but if you are as careful in booking a cruise as you appear to be I doubt your upcoming cruise would have met the conditions anyway. I can't think of a cruise (and there have been many) we have take in since 1998 that would have qualified..... In any event you don't have to snarl like a cornered badger to change a discussion to a confrontation. Business people tend to do it very quickly in fact as they learn very quickly to avoid speaking in third person or passive voice. It gets us in trouble a lot.

Edited November 1, 2019 by TNTLAMB

[Coffeeluvr05]

On 10/30/2019 at 3:02 PM, skynight said:

Here is a thought.

I would write a letter to the CA Department of Consumer Affairs in Sacramento reporting the mis conduct by Princess Cruise Line in Santa Clarita CA. I would attach a copy of the Princess letter. I would copy both the chief consul at Princess Cruises and Jan Swartz. 

The CA Dept of Consumer Affairs does not regulate cruise lines.  They regulate specific professions such as doctors, nurses, architects, engineers, auto repair facilities, etc.  

[Steelers36]

4 hours ago, TNTLAMB said:

This "gift" does indeed come with strings. It was in the form of a Future Cruise Deposit (credit). There are more strings attached to a future cruise credit than you find in a marionette show. one of the biggest is that not every Fare class is eligible for a FCD. In fact anyone who has cruised any length of time and is a careful shopper usually buys a cruise that is NOT eligible for a Future Cruise credit. If you do that $100.00 OBC comes at an awfully high price and you likely paid too much for cruise. Few promotions and deals flash sales etc qualify. I dunno about the arbitrary Dates but if you are as careful in booking a cruise as you appear to be I doubt your upcoming cruise would have met the conditions anyway. I can't think of a cruise (and there have been many) we have take in since 1998 that would have qualified..... In any event you don't have to snarl like a cornered badger to change a discussion to a confrontation. Business people tend to do it very quickly in fact as they learn very quickly to avoid speaking in third person or passive voice. It gets us in trouble a lot.

I am not sure where to begin with this very confusing and misleading post.  First of all, those passengers received a Future Cruise Credit (FCC) - not a FCD.  The FCC was granted by Princess as a goodwill gesture for having to miss two ports and apparently for the poor communications surrounding that.  A FCC granted by Princess might also happen if a booked passenger accepted a Move Down to a lower category of cabin, or a Move Over to another cruise due to over-booking.  The FCC can be applied to future bookings.  In the case of this disruption, the letter provided to passengers indicated they could apply it to cruises already booked, but not yet paid in full. 

 

In your post you go on about FCD's, which customers can purchase on board ships while on a cruise and the FCD can be used as a deposit towards a future cruise booking they may make.  You are completely wrong and incorrect about stating that few promotions or sales qualify to use a FCD.  A FCD can be applied to ANY booking with Princess.  If you book a cruise after Final Payment Date, then the balance is immediately due.  The FCD also satisfies as sufficient deposit even when the booking calls for a 10% deposit (World Cruises - and segments - excepted as they have a totally different payment plan and application of FCD's).  It is obvious to me you have a completely incorrect understanding of the FCD program.  I suggest you do some research on it or ask Princess because you are missing out on a great program.

 

Edited November 1, 2019 by steelers36

[windsor26]

It is worth chasing this s we had a similar letter from a poor stopping cruise and we had a cruise already booked for which we had used a future cruise letter and before we asked the TA said they had been advised the credit was in our system account and they took it off the cruise cost immediately   If necessary go on the CEO's blog and ask for action  (I have done that in the past and got action)