new pricing structure= full ships

[PistolPete13]

2 hours ago, April42749 said:

Are you talking about the 2/2 sailing?

I was on this sailing (the Escape) last year.  I booked about a month in advance and probably paid around $2500 for a balcony sail-away.  And it went down after that.  I just checked about this year's sailing (after being unavailable for a few weeks) and there are now lots of cabins available.  The sail-away balcony is $4500!

I love cruising; DH not so much...but I could always convince him because of "the price" vs that of a land vacation.  It looks like land vacations may be in my future.

 

I've been watching the 2/2 Bliss sailing out of NYC out of curiosity because I sailed the same itinerary on Jan 5th.

 

I'm shocked at the last minute pricing for an inside room.  $3456 for a solo traveler.

 

I booked the Jan 5th trip right after Thanksgiving at $1256 before taxes and fees for the same room type.  After taxes, insurance, and excursions, I ended up paying about $3K total.  

Edited January 28, 2020 by PistolPete13

[bones774]

23 minutes ago, Bluewake said:

  However, what happens to the crew members' income in cases when a ship sails with less than a full set of passengers?  Wouldn't the crew receive less money for that cruise because there are fewer passengers paying the DSC?  Would NCL make  up the difference by supplementing the DSC pool shared by the crew when there are fewer passengers paying into that pool? Or, would NCL not care about the crews' income?

good point you make, certainly adds fuel to the old "DSC" argument, who actually gets the money?

 

 

[Bonobochick]

I see the 30% off sale has returned to increase "discounted fare" prices again. All the NYC cruises I've been watching went up from the mega sale. 

[bones774]

update- NCL is now selling balc for less than I/s and o/v, showing avail for all three cats. this is solo pricing bliss 2/2

what does that say? they need to fill balcs!!!!!

if it was really full they would have low ball upgrade bidders to fill the balcs!

Edited January 28, 2020 by bones774

[April42749]

6 minutes ago, bones774 said:

update- NCL is now selling balc for less than I/s and o/v, showing avail for all three cats. this is solo pricing bliss 2/2

what does that say? they need to fill balcs!!!!!

They must have sold out fast because I'm only seeing insides and havens available for solos and couples.  The inside is still high but the haven seems to be "the normal Haven" range.

 

[bones774]

4 minutes ago, April42749 said:

They must have sold out fast because I'm only seeing insides and havens available for solos and couples.  The inside is still high but the haven seems to be "the normal Haven" range.

 

yup, this will be interesting to watch on thurs and fri

still listed on the other t/a site.

Edited January 28, 2020 by bones774

[fstuff1]

On 1/24/2020 at 1:48 PM, Zippeedee said:

Take a look at the 21 day Bliss Panama Canal from NYC in April. The price has dropped so many times it wasn't worth using my NCL credit card points for an upgrade. The solo supplement is now waived for balconies, which are almost the same price as studios and insides. The pricing makes no sense to me.  I'm hoping the ship won't be full. Much nicer cruising without crushing crowds.

 

Yeah, waiting for that cruise to drop under $1500 solo inside.

 

Now, ov has solo supplement discount and is$2100 solo. (Cheaper than balcony)

Edited January 28, 2020 by fstuff1

[ray98]

On 1/27/2020 at 10:05 AM, blcruising said:

I agree they should focus on selling every room at a profit. Historically, they've been unable to fill every cabin on a consistent basis which means they've been pricing too high. That trend seems to be continuing.  So I wonder how they are planning to increase demand? That's the real question, and raising prices is usually not the way to increase demand.

 

If they are unable fill ships, why not take $299 last minute bottom feeder fare plus the $15 DSC with zero onboard spend as opposed to $0 fare, $0 DSC and $0 onboard spend?

 

If I were NCL, I'd be setting advance fares at profitable, but reasonable, levels as opposed to trying to sell at above market rates in advance and then dumping cabins. This model ought to give them profitability while maximizing their chances of having a body in every cabin.

 

 

.....because that is usually a poor business model.  You have to know your numbers and stick to them. 

 

Sometimes my business in the service industry does not fully maximize our potential but I know our numbers and we stick to them.  If the 'bottom feeder' rate makes me no money and only increases my workload then I would be better off leaving the slot vacant.  I also do not price to be at 100% capacity, if that is the case then I am usually under-priced in the market.  We make way more money setting for a 90% goal at our profit standard than at 100% which includes cutting profit margins to get there.

[JamieLogical]

3 hours ago, kahoosbt said:

 

I know links are not supposed to be shared here, but would you be willing to post a disguised link, hint, or some other info that could be used to find this site? Or send me a direct message with the info? If so, I would really appreciate it. I have done quite a bit of searching and have only been able to find sites that list ~15 available cabins per category. 

 

Thanks!

 

I definitely can't name the site or link it here and there are no direct messages on these forums. But if you do a Google search for "cruise e-deal signup", I can tell you it comes up in the first page of results.

[luv2kroooz]

1 hour ago, ray98 said:

 

 

.....because that is usually a poor business model.  You have to know your numbers and stick to them. 

 

Sometimes my business in the service industry does not fully maximize our potential but I know our numbers and we stick to them.  If the 'bottom feeder' rate makes me no money and only increases my workload then I would be better off leaving the slot vacant.  I also do not price to be at 100% capacity, if that is the case then I am usually under-priced in the market.  We make way more money setting for a 90% goal at our profit standard than at 100% which includes cutting profit margins to get there.

 

Interesting. I don't know your business line. I am in the service business too but have very low fixed costs and greater variable costs. This does afford me some ability to be more selective about the business I accept. But I still, to some extent, have to price according to market conditions even though I believe my customers pay a premium.

 

As it relates to cruises, it could be a poor model which is probably why most lines don't use it and try to set rates more consistent with market levels. Even NCL has been talking about this for years. With cruise ships, the fixed costs are ridiculously high. Fuel is fixed, labor is fixed, entertainment is fixed whether there is 3,000 or 3,500 passengers on the ship the costs are the same. To command those rates, they'll need to decrease capacity while creating a string sense of brand loyalty.

 

I predict it will fail. I mean, maybe Crystal or Regent have that ability due to a customer base with greater disposable income, but NCLs customer base in large part is working class and many of the rates I see are simply noncompetitive. If it succeeds, it is a great thing for NCL.  But competition is a great thing for the consumer and my vacation dollars spend everywhere!!

 

 

[OceanBlueWaters]

Maybe I am missing something for Solo Travelers...

 

I have asked this before:

NCL offers FREE KIDS (or 3rd, 4th, neighbor, grandma, Aunt 10 times removed) for free!  Why can't they flow down that savings to Solos?

Solos do not eat THAT much nor require manhours expended in dedicated childcare spaces. Nor do their their rooms require extensive tidying.  Solos don't even have a mini-fridge to track!

How does that make sense?  Are 10 year olds gambling and that is how they gain profit?  Are 8 year olds buying Portraits at Auction?

So very curious how this business model works for everyone but the Solo Traveler.

Anyone?

Thanks!

🙂

[bones774]

1 minute ago, OceanBlueWaters said:

Maybe I am missing something for Solo Travelers...

 

I have asked this before:

NCL offers FREE KIDS (or 3rd, 4th, neighbor, grandma, Aunt 10 times removed) for free!  Why can't they flow down that savings to Solos?

Solos do not eat THAT much nor require manhours expended in dedicated childcare spaces. Nor do their their rooms require extensive tidying.  Solos don't even have a mini-fridge to track!

How does that make sense?  Are 10 year olds gambling and that is how they gain profit?  Are 8 year olds buying Portraits at Auction?

So very curious how this business model works for everyone but the Solo Traveler.

Anyone?

Thanks!

🙂

I'm a solo traveler and wish what you said was true but one big problem to start with is if they sold the cabins at same price and a whole load of solos booked cabins that would right away exclude the revenue of all subsequent pax who might wanna pay for 2 people in a cabin. and though you say a solo has less to clean that may or may not be true but room steward still has to attend.

[OceanBlueWaters]

15 minutes ago, bones774 said:

I'm a solo traveler and wish what you said was true but one big problem to start with is if they sold the cabins at same price and a whole load of solos booked cabins that would right away exclude the revenue of all subsequent pax who might wanna pay for 2 people in a cabin. and though you say a solo has less to clean that may or may not be true but room steward still has to attend.

Virgin has potential.  Watching.  They just need to get a better itinerary and get a drink package!  LOL! 

MSC also has some great deals...

Not happy with Encore coming to NYC and will offload 2 CNs soon.  Big Sigh 😑

[bones774]

1 minute ago, OceanBlueWaters said:

Virgin has potential.  Watching.  They just need to get a better itinerary and get a drink package!  LOL! 

MSC also has some great deals...

Not happy with Encore coming to NYC and will offload 2 CNs soon.  Big Sigh 😑

lol, I've done MSC 2x now and somewhat pleased, on par with NCL. 

I've been keeping my eye on Virgin, hoping they come to NYC, at least for some summer sailings.

[luv2kroooz]

36 minutes ago, OceanBlueWaters said:

Maybe I am missing something for Solo Travelers...

 

I have asked this before:

NCL offers FREE KIDS (or 3rd, 4th, neighbor, grandma, Aunt 10 times removed) for free!  Why can't they flow down that savings to Solos?

Solos do not eat THAT much nor require manhours expended in dedicated childcare spaces. Nor do their their rooms require extensive tidying.  Solos don't even have a mini-fridge to track!

How does that make sense?  Are 10 year olds gambling and that is how they gain profit?  Are 8 year olds buying Portraits at Auction?

So very curious how this business model works for everyone but the Solo Traveler.

Anyone?

Thanks!

🙂

Cost of food is cheap.

 

They have the potential to gain a lot more onboard revenue from families on shore excursions, dining upgrades, photography services, and service charges, etc.

[OceanBlueWaters]

1 minute ago, blcruising said:

Cost of food is cheap.

 

They have the potential to gain a lot more onboard revenue from families on shore excursions, dining upgrades, photography services, and service charges, etc.

But...you cannot gurantee they will be booking via NCL on Shore Excursions OR if they will opt for Photo Sessions.

My question remains: How does NCL run a promo where "everyone sails free" and the Solo Cruiser still has no discount and the fare has increased?  Am I paying for your kid(s) in the Supervised spaces while you are away?

As a solo traveler, I am absorbing those costs?

It doesn't make sense.

😞

[perditax]

7 minutes ago, OceanBlueWaters said:

But...you cannot gurantee they will be booking via NCL on Shore Excursions OR if they will opt for Photo Sessions.

My question remains: How does NCL run a promo where "everyone sails free" and the Solo Cruiser still has no discount and the fare has increased?  Am I paying for your kid(s) in the Supervised spaces while you are away?

As a solo traveler, I am absorbing those costs?

It doesn't make sense.

😞

All of the mass market cruise lines operate this way, including kids sail free promos. It’s the reality of the market.

 

That said, NCL is the most solo friendly (so far) with solo cabins, and occasional rooms offered with no solo supplement charge. You just have to watch for them. 

[luv2kroooz]

9 minutes ago, OceanBlueWaters said:

But...you cannot gurantee they will be booking via NCL on Shore Excursions OR if they will opt for Photo Sessions.

My question remains: How does NCL run a promo where "everyone sails free" and the Solo Cruiser still has no discount and the fare has increased?  Am I paying for your kid(s) in the Supervised spaces while you are away?

As a solo traveler, I am absorbing those costs?

It doesn't make sense.

😞

I didn't guarantee anything. I'm just stating why they do what they do.

 

[mking8288]

For select US ports where NCL, perhaps, has an exclusive or high percentage of the cruise market, i.e. New York & Boston, the tweaking of pricing might prove to be doable & work - possibly, like that of the Biss sailing the Florida-Bahamas route over the next 2 to 3 months on a "newer" mega-ship, promising the extra bells & whistles ... with rather high prices for off-season, non-holiday runs.  

 

Case in sample - pricing for balconies in March (see below) could result in numerous OV and Insides remaining unsold & leaving empty - good job, if they got their fixed labor costs covered & overhead expenses factored in.  However, these prices don't seem to work in NCL's Florida ports with multiple lines & ships doing circles - it might just help and benefit the competitions.  

 

Good luck to NCL filling its Bermuda runs this Apri, what I consider "crazy" prices for 4 days and 5 days round-trip ... maybe, the Spring break crowds will book it.  Or else, 50:50 chances someone is going to blink & sneeze and override the computer models.  

 

There is no way that we would spend, easily $3,500 to $4,500+ for a 4 or 5 days cruise package for 2 to Bermuda with little to no extra NCL not-really-freebies in April or early May ...  JetBlue can take us there & back on a 3 hours JFK non-stop with a bundled hotel deals, just have to add up meals & dining, airport transfer; and, hop on a Bermuda bus with a 3 days unlimited pass for less.  WiFi included at most of the hotels, already priced in.  

 

I know that last month on the Gem (and accordingly, on the Bliss,) before the coronavirus outbreak - NCL has managed to partner with overseas T/A to sell some of the cabins in bulk to bring in large groups of overseas Chinese cruisers.  However, I would be bracing for no-shows and cancellations in the coming weeks (if not months) from those abroad, even if no refunds are offered & they didn't obtain cancel for any reasons insurance.  NCL might just come up short with their fixed labor costs, including those high flying DSC - especially if 10% or 15% of the cabins remain empty and unsold - not to mention additional onboard spendings. 

I'm sure NCL didn't set out to aim for not being successful but they miscalculated before deploying the Joy to grow the Chinese market and ... the rest is history.  

 

 

[Bonobochick]

1 hour ago, mking8288 said:

Good luck to NCL filling its Bermuda runs this Apri, what I consider "crazy" prices for 4 days and 5 days round-trip ... 

 

For sure. I've done about a dozen of the Bermuda 7-day sailings solo from NYC the last 6-7 years. The studios on the Encore sailings are averaging $2100 [without the drinks perk + gratuities option]. That's a hard pass for me. The 4 & 5 day sailings prices are equally ludicrous. 

 

1 hour ago, mking8288 said:

I know that last month on the Gem (and accordingly, on the Bliss,) before the coronavirus outbreak - NCL has managed to partner with overseas T/A to sell some of the cabins in bulk to bring in large groups of overseas Chinese cruisers.  However, I would be bracing for no-shows and cancellations in the coming weeks (if not months) from those abroad, even if no refunds are offered & they didn't obtain cancel for any reasons insurance.  NCL might just come up short with their fixed labor costs, including those high flying DSC - especially if 10% or 15% of the cabins remain empty and unsold - not to mention additional onboard spendings

 

I will be curious to see how this plays out for NCL. I've noticed an increase in the bulk cabins sales groups on my last few cruises, especially when I've been at the buffet.   

[MoniMommy]

On 1/27/2020 at 10:05 AM, blcruising said:

 

 

If they are unable fill ships, why not take $299 last minute bottom feeder fare plus the $15 DSC with zero onboard spend as opposed to $0 fare, $0 DSC and $0 onboard spend?

 

If I were NCL, I'd be setting advance fares at profitable, but reasonable, levels as opposed to trying to sell at above market rates in advance and then dumping cabins. This model ought to give them profitability while maximizing their chances of having a body in every cabin.

You are assuming that the bottom feeders pay the DSC. They probably spend 0 on board and pay 0 DSC by removing it. I dont want to start a conversation about whether the DSC should be removed. My point is that if there us a correlation between rock bottom fares and removal if DSC, that would enter into the equation of whether to offer rock bottom rates or sail with empty cabins.

[luv2kroooz]

12 minutes ago, MoniMommy said:

You are assuming that the bottom feeders pay the DSC. They probably spend 0 on board and pay 0 DSC by removing it. I dont want to start a conversation about whether the DSC should be removed. My point is that if there us a correlation between rock bottom fares and removal if DSC, that would enter into the equation of whether to offer rock bottom rates or sail with empty cabins.

I see. I assume they pay the DSC and then you assume they don't. Interesting line of logic, there.

[Bonobochick]

17 minutes ago, blcruising said:

I see. I assume they pay the DSC and then you assume they don't. Interesting line of logic, there.

 

As someone who budget cruises on NCL - which I guess classifies me in the derisive titled "bottom feeders" group - I've never once removed my DSCs. The implication of that generalization of budget cruisers is gross. 

 

And I should've quoted @MoniMommy  but trying to fix it is more of an irritation than I feel like handling.

Edited January 29, 2020 by Bonobochick
added something

[bmwman]

On 1/27/2020 at 1:44 PM, NickCanadian said:

 

I think NCL might be the first mass market cruise line to adopt this pricing strategy. Time will tell if it will work. As a shareholder, I hope it does. Prior to this, the mantra was always leave port full no matter the cost. Im sure Del Rio will discuss this on the next call.

 

Unfortunately, I am the 'bottom feeder' who only buys inside staterooms, doesn't drink or eat in specialty restaurants and arranges my own port tours. As such, I spend zero on the ship. With the increased prices, I wont be sailing on NCL anymore even with shareholder OBC.

 

As a very frequent traveler for work, Air Canada will not under any circumstances allow anyone other than a business class ticket holder, or the absolute top of the line loyalty program card holder sit in the business class seats. Economy will be jammed and the six front business class seats will remain empty on the Embrarer regional jet used on the route I take multiple times per week. The economy seats sell from 100-200 and the business class seats are 600-900. They have the data to show that its profitable to leave them empty rather than devalue the product.

I love this thread as both a shareholder and passenger.

 

All our favourite crew have moved to another cruise line so we can still enjoy the cruise wit our friends whilst my shares are well looked after.

 

Sadly though I do not agree - of course there re pricing curves and stratagies but NCL model requires a contribution from eanch and every cabin. Basic business. The airline analogy iss with great respect not correct.

 

The aviation industry works VERY VERY differently and Air Canada use a version which is excellent. However most airlines in Europe it is bottoms on seats and if you simply leave it late to check in you get the better seats.

 

Further a cabin is a cabin whereas the seat upfront is perceived better. I fly a lot an unless its over 6 hours a nice position economy works ofr me and not conned out of money for an armchair and a drink. Those who pay can afford it I would rather not and save for a cruise :) Sailing with empty cabins and no contribution to fixed overhead (fuel staff and many others) is NOT the model any cruise line adopts. The posh seat is kept exclusive by not being used and the Airline would feel that  getting a contribution would upset the passenger next door. The same does not apply on a cruise. 

 

Flying is a need cruise is a choice .

 

Its plain and simple NCL are trying to find out f they can shift the demand curve (as opposed to move along it)  and if you believe anything else watch this space 

 

 

[perditax]

2 hours ago, Bonobochick said:

For sure. I've done about a dozen of the Bermuda 7-day sailings solo from NYC the last 6-7 years. The studios on the Encore sailings are averaging $2100 [without the drinks perk + gratuities option]. That's a hard pass for me. The 4 & 5 day sailings prices are equally ludicrous. 

 

I'm seeing about $1800 all in for studios on Bermuda 7-day (Encore) in April and May. That said, I just checked it out of curiosity and because I've done a lot of solo NCL cruises and $2100 for 7 days seemed crazy. 

Don't get me wrong, $1800 for a studio is still ludicrous. I did the same itinerary on Escape last July (literally the week of the 4th of July) for about $1099 before taxes & fees.