Cancelling Cruises because of the C word

[janny444]

2 minutes ago, moonstone01 said:

just reading the news on teletext ( old fashioned I know, but I do enjoy it), and the French government has banned gatherings of 5000 people or more.  How would that affect a cruise ship the size of Britannia?  Just curious.

That's the question...Britannia has 5045...including crew...

 

Just another point....one of our POC is in France ….how will that be viewed?

[jeanlyon]

Just don't go on an excursion with 5000 others?  😁

[wowzz]

6 minutes ago, janny444 said:

That's the question...Britannia has 5045...including crew...

 

Just another point....one of our POC is in France ….how will that be viewed?

The French ruling relates to public assemblies in an enclosed space, in an attempt to stop transmission of the virus. Not sure if that would necessarily apply to cruise ships. For example,  there is no suggestion that CdG airport is to be shut, and there are obviously more than 5000 people there 

[janny444]

Jean....was just thinking in terms of a public gathering....even though on a ship while in French waters and in a French dock

[Vampiress88]

1 hour ago, Harry Peterson said:

Just three days ago, when this thread started, it was all gung-ho - I'm not cancelling etc etc.

 

Now the sentiment has changed completely.

 

But the facts haven't actually changed that much.  Just the publicity.  Why the sudden change?

 

I was fine until that email. Then obviously I checked my insurance against what they were saying in the email that’s my issue. 

 

Also someone else mentioned that they can’t give refunds to everyone. 

I don’t think anyone was suggesting they should. They are a business at end of the day. 

My problem is this refusal to board but keeping money. 

 

I would feel happy and protected if they just said “if we refuse you to board we will refund you” I’d be cross if it turns out to be a cold but I’d understand. 

I just do not want to be in a lose lose situation. 

 

I wouldnt want to cancel if I had security. Hubby does but I don’t.  And we wouldn’t ever want to do anything to cause losing money

[terrierjohn]

59 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

I don't think it's fear of the virus.  I think it's the fear of being cooped up for 14 days quarantine!!

I think the change has been brought on by the newer info that P&O could refuse to board you with no refund, and because it seems insurance will not cover you. For those yet to pay the balance this now makes cancelling a much better option, but most of those who have paid still seem to be willing to go on their cruise.

[staygulf]

1 minute ago, Vampiress88 said:

 

I was fine until that email. Then obviously I checked my insurance against what they were saying in the email that’s my issue. 

 

Also someone else mentioned that they can’t give refunds to everyone. 

I don’t think anyone was suggesting they should. They are a business at end of the day. 

My problem is this refusal to board but keeping money. 

 

I would feel happy and protected if they just said “if we refuse you to board we will refund you” I’d be cross if it turns out to be a cold but I’d understand. 

I just do not want to be in a lose lose situation. 

 

I wouldnt want to cancel if I had security. Hubby does but I don’t.  And we wouldn’t ever want to do anything to cause losing money

See my earlier post. If they refuse you boarding they have to refund you under the package travel regulations

[Vampiress88]

2 minutes ago, staygulf said:

See my earlier post. If they refuse you boarding they have to refund you under the package travel regulations

they have said it would be treated as a cancellation and normal t&c apply

[jeanlyon]

Cancelling in the last 9 days means 100% loss, so I don't see them refunding.  the problem is, they cannot know for sure if it;s Coronavirus, so you could be offloaded with nothing more than a touch of flu or a cold.

 

Janny sorry I was being flippant!

[staygulf]

3 minutes ago, Vampiress88 said:

they have said it would be treated as a cancellation and normal t&c apply

They can say what they like. The fact is the regulations are an implied term of the contract and a failure to carry out the package in those circumstances would fall within regulation 13 (2)(b)

Edited February 29, 2020 by staygulf

[jeanlyon]

Right, just had this reply from p&O on Facebook

 

"Guests that have been denied boarding have been provided with a refund if they haven't been able to claim via their travel insurers but this is looked at on a case by case basis."

[staygulf]

1 minute ago, jeanlyon said:

Right, just had this reply from p&O on Facebook

 

"Guests that have been denied boarding have been provided with a refund if they haven't been able to claim via their travel insurers but this is looked at on a case by case basis."

Insurance claims are not necessary. Read the legislation. It’s Uk and European law. 

Edited February 29, 2020 by staygulf

[eddie11]

So P&O have denied boarding to some passengers???

[PRINCESSTHE BEST]

22 minutes ago, janny444 said:

That's the question...Britannia has 5045...including crew...

 

Just another point....one of our POC is in France ….how will that be viewed?

I suspect the ship will be turned away.

[jeanlyon]

Just now, eddie11 said:

So P&O have denied boarding to some passengers???

 

I am sure it has happened in the past.  If you said you had flu or something, or tummy upset.  decision might have been made to deny boarding.

[eddie11]

Ah yes - I was thinking of in the last few days

[jeanlyon]

Me too, when I first read it, but then realized that it has probably happened many times over the years.

[Harry Peterson]

59 minutes ago, staygulf said:

If they refuse you boarding they have not carried out the package in accordance with your contract and would presumably have to give a full refund under regulation 13 (2)(b) of the Package Travel Regulations 2018

A very good point - and it will overrride the terms and conditions, meaning that P&O will have to refund - though you might have to argue it out with them by quoting the legislation below:

 

The Package Travel and Linked Travel Arrangements Regulations 2018

 

Termination of the package travel contract by the organiser

13.—(1) The provisions of this regulation are implied as a term in every package travel contract.

 

(2) Paragraph (3) applies where—

 

(a)the number of persons enrolled for the package is smaller than the minimum number stated in the contract and the organiser notifies the traveller of the termination of the contract within the period fixed in the contract but not later than—
(i)in the case of trips lasting more than 6 days, 20 days before the start of the package;
(ii)in the case of trips lasting between 2 and 6 days, 7 days before the start of the package;
(iii)in the case of trips lasting less than 2 days, 48 hours before the start of the package; or

(b)the organiser is prevented from performing the contract because of unavoidable and extraordinary circumstances and notifies the traveller of the termination of the contract without undue delay before the start of the package.

(3) The organiser—

(a)may terminate the package travel contract and provide the traveller with a full refund of any payments made for the package;
(b)is not liable for additional compensation.

 

So P&O won't be able to refuse refunds, and that's probably why Saga are already offering refunds - they know they have to, but P&O are (for now) hoping they can get away with it.

[wowzz]

9 minutes ago, PRINCESSTHE BEST said:

I suspect the ship will be turned away.

Why should they turn the ship away?  Thousands of people arrive in France every day - they are not stopping people arriving by air or rail, so why should a cruise ship be any different?

[staygulf]

1 minute ago, Harry Peterson said:

A very good point - and it will overrride the terms and conditions, meaning that P&O will have to refund - though you might have to argue it out with them by quoting the legislation below:

 

The Package Travel and Linked Travel Arrangements Regulations 2018

 

Termination of the package travel contract by the organiser

13.—(1) The provisions of this regulation are implied as a term in every package travel contract.

 

(2) Paragraph (3) applies where—

 

(a)the number of persons enrolled for the package is smaller than the minimum number stated in the contract and the organiser notifies the traveller of the termination of the contract within the period fixed in the contract but not later than—
(i)in the case of trips lasting more than 6 days, 20 days before the start of the package;
(ii)in the case of trips lasting between 2 and 6 days, 7 days before the start of the package;
(iii)in the case of trips lasting less than 2 days, 48 hours before the start of the package; or

(b)the organiser is prevented from performing the contract because of unavoidable and extraordinary circumstances and notifies the traveller of the termination of the contract without undue delay before the start of the package.

(3) The organiser—

(a)may terminate the package travel contract and provide the traveller with a full refund of any payments made for the package;
(b)is not liable for additional compensation.

 

So P&O won't be able to refuse refunds, and that's probably why Saga are already offering refunds - they know they have to, but P&O are (for now) hoping they can get away with it.

Exactly my point. I’ve researched this having just had a Princess Asian cruise cancelled 

[janny444]

2 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Why should they turn the ship away?  Thousands of people arrive in France every day - they are not stopping people arriving by air or rail, so why should a cruise ship be any different?

Hi....yes thousands of people arrive into France every day but I think the ban of 5000 plus people relates to being in close proximity or confined space...there won't be over 5000 people on one train or plane but a cruise ship....possibly

[grapau27]

8 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

A very good point - and it will overrride the terms and conditions, meaning that P&O will have to refund - though you might have to argue it out with them by quoting the legislation below:

 

The Package Travel and Linked Travel Arrangements Regulations 2018

 

Termination of the package travel contract by the organiser

13.—(1) The provisions of this regulation are implied as a term in every package travel contract.

 

(2) Paragraph (3) applies where—

 

(a)the number of persons enrolled for the package is smaller than the minimum number stated in the contract and the organiser notifies the traveller of the termination of the contract within the period fixed in the contract but not later than—
(i)in the case of trips lasting more than 6 days, 20 days before the start of the package;
(ii)in the case of trips lasting between 2 and 6 days, 7 days before the start of the package;
(iii)in the case of trips lasting less than 2 days, 48 hours before the start of the package; or

(b)the organiser is prevented from performing the contract because of unavoidable and extraordinary circumstances and notifies the traveller of the termination of the contract without undue delay before the start of the package.

(3) The organiser—

(a)may terminate the package travel contract and provide the traveller with a full refund of any payments made for the package;
(b)is not liable for additional compensation.

 

So P&O won't be able to refuse refunds, and that's probably why Saga are already offering refunds - they know they have to, but P&O are (for now) hoping they can get away with it.

Thanks I have screenshot this.

Graham

[PRINCESSTHE BEST]

5 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Why should they turn the ship away?  Thousands of people arrive in France every day - they are not stopping people arriving by air or rail, so why should a cruise ship be any different?

Because you are living together in a confined area. The air conditioning system is an incubator for a virus. Ports around the world are already refusing to allow ships to dock when there is sickness on board. France has implemented this measure for a reason, they’re unlikely to turn a blind eye to cruise ships.

I don’t know an aircraft that carries 5000 people. 

[janny444]

24 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

Cancelling in the last 9 days means 100% loss, so I don't see them refunding.  the problem is, they cannot know for sure if it;s Coronavirus, so you could be offloaded with nothing more than a touch of flu or a cold.

 

Janny sorry I was being flippant!

Jean...no worries I took it as a light hearted comment

[davemorton]

Drive through testing, now perhaps they could set that up at Southampton docks, save you having to get your luggage back from the ship if they refuse boarding.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-51678008