CRUISE REFUND RECEIVED

[jeanlyon]

Fred Olsen's web page is giving 8 weeks for refunds, so that's 56 days!  I think they are all in the same state.

 

I had a call this morning from my travel insurance company, my refund has been completed and should be back on my card in 5 days.  I only did it on Friday.

Edited May 4, 2020 by jeanlyon

[funinhounslow]

1 hour ago, Bin man said:

On the 75 route not sure how that would work as we payed the T.A. who then pay P and O so who is the claim against ?

S75 not appropriate in this case - it is only for when the payment was directly with the supplier of the goods/services which haven’t been provided. 
 

If you used an agent you have to go down the chargeback route. I did this last year when Amoma went bust...

[jeanlyon]

according to which S75 and Chargeback are one and the same.  Any amount between £100 and £30,000.  No time limit.

[funinhounslow]

They aren’t one and the same. Section 75 is a legal requirement, Chargeback is a service offered by Visa, MasterCard and Amex only and you have to submit a claim within 120 days. 
 

If your disputed transaction falls within S75 protection you should definitely go that route rather than Chargeback 

 

Like I said S75 didn’t cover me when a booking agent I used went bust so I claimed under Chargeback 

Edited May 4, 2020 by funinhounslow

[Selbourne]

8 hours ago, funinhounslow said:

They aren’t one and the same. Section 75 is a legal requirement, Chargeback is a service offered by Visa, MasterCard and Amex only and you have to submit a claim within 120 days. 
 

If your disputed transaction falls within S75 protection you should definitely go that route rather than Chargeback 

 

Like I said S75 didn’t cover me when a booking agent I used went bust so I claimed under Chargeback 

I was also under the impression that chargeback had a fairly short time limit and wonder if this could cause a problem in this scenario? Cruise balances are due 90 days before sail date (even longer if you use a TA) and then P&O is saying allow 60 days for a refund. Could it not be the case that in some cases by the time someone gets frustrated with P&O and attempts to go down that route they might be too late?

 

I booked direct with P&O, so are you saying that if my 60 days for a refund comes and goes and I am not getting anywhere with them then a Section 75 route is open to me? If so, is it particularly complex / expensive? I am awaiting £5k so a small cost would be acceptable. 

[funinhounslow]

31 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

I was also under the impression that chargeback had a fairly short time limit and wonder if this could cause a problem in this scenario? Cruise balances are due 90 days before sail date (even longer if you use a TA) and then P&O is saying allow 60 days for a refund. Could it not be the case that in some cases by the time someone gets frustrated with P&O and attempts to go down that route they might be too late?

 

I booked direct with P&O, so are you saying that if my 60 days for a refund comes and goes and I am not getting anywhere with them then a Section 75 route is open to me? If so, is it particularly complex / expensive? I am awaiting £5k so a small cost would be acceptable. 

 

Sorry I should have been more precise. The Chargeback "clock starts ticking" from the date you don't receive the service/goods you paid for if you see what I mean. In my case, I booked accommodation via Amoma some months before a holiday -  in the intervening period Amoma went bust and I was only aware of the problem when I tried to check in at the hotel. I looked at S75 but realised I wasn't covered as I'd paid an agent, not the hotel directly. I read about the 120 day Chargeback time limit so thought I was stuffed but then found out the 120 days was from the first night in the hotel room I'd booked. 

 

This suggests that in the case of cruises the 120 day "clock" starts on the first day of your cancelled cruise.

 

To the best of my knowledge you would be covered by Section 75 if you booked direct with P&O. I don't know about the process but the Chargeback procedure was for me pretty painless. And free - didn't cost me a penny and I got all my money back!

 

One thing though - to pursue a Chargeback claim I had to show that I'd exhausted all other avenues to get my money back - it is very much a last resort. 

 

I don't know if it would be the same with S75 but logic would suggest so - so you may be on a hiding to nothing if you've applied for a refund from P&O and they have committed to returning your money but are working through a backlog.

 

I would not take this as gospel though - there are valuable resources elsewhere - if you're an expert in saving money, that website would be a good starting point...

Edited May 5, 2020 by funinhounslow

[mercury7289]

11 hours ago, Selbourne said:

Many congratulations mercury7289 on being the third person to receive a refund and, having met you, I know that you are not a plant! Let’s hope that this is the start of a flood or maybe they will just prioritise those who have chased them. I haven’t chased them myself so suspect that mine may still be some time off, but as long as I know that they have started paying out then I’m fairly relaxed. Lets hope that today marks the turning point and people will post good news every day from now on. Well done on getting a result though. I’m very pleased for you. 
 

Edit - Just noticed in your latest post that you applied for your refund in that narrow window (13th to 18th March) when those over 70 or with underlying conditions could cancel. This was also the case with at least one of the other two who have received refunds. I have no issue with those folks being treated as a priority but just hope that it doesn’t stop there! It will be encouraging when we hear of others who cancelled after 19th March under the revised (again) T’s and C’s getting their refunds. Tomorrow is another day!

Selbourne

 

Thank you,

All my dealings were via E-mail, I did not phone them, or start to chase until 45 days.

I did not quote chapter and verse at them, rather took a softer more light hearted approach.

I did manage to get my refund from my T/A, two weeks ago, for the Iceland cruise, although this did not include my deposit.

Waiting for this to be returned

The reason for this return was that I paid my T/A on the 1st March, and the money was still sitting in their funds.

Have deposit paid for 18 day October cruise, and 35 day B2B in May/June next year.

Will not be paying balance for October, and will wait to see where we are in the New year.

 

 

[kalos]

1 hour ago, funinhounslow said:

I would not take this as gospel though - there are valuable resources elsewhere - if you're an expert in saving money, that website would be a good starting point...

 

Hope this helps  , the difference between sec 75 and charge back.

The way I read it ,charge back is a voluntary scheme and sec 75 is law .

So if you had not recovered your chargeback then sec 75 would have been your final route to recover your money .

 

https://www.thinkmoney.co.uk/blog/whats-the-difference-between-section-75-and-chargeback/

[funinhounslow]

6 minutes ago, kalos said:

 

So if you had not recovered your chargeback then sec 75 would have been your final route to recover your money .

 

 

S75 doesn't always apply if your booking is via an agent. That's why I went via Chargeback.

 

I had to show that all other avenues to get my money back had been exhausted. If I had been promised a refund which was delayed I'm not sure this condition would have been satisfied. 

 

Like I said, Chargeback (and by implication S75 protection) is very much a "last resort"

[jeanlyon]

10 hours ago, funinhounslow said:

They aren’t one and the same. Section 75 is a legal requirement, Chargeback is a service offered by Visa, MasterCard and Amex only and you have to submit a claim within 120 days. 
 

If your disputed transaction falls within S75 protection you should definitely go that route rather than Chargeback 

 

Like I said S75 didn’t cover me when a booking agent I used went bust so I claimed under Chargeback 

My mistake.  Sorry.

[jeanlyon]

1 hour ago, mercury7289 said:

Selbourne

 

Thank you,

All my dealings were via E-mail, I did not phone them, or start to chase until 45 days.

I did not quote chapter and verse at them, rather took a softer more light hearted approach.

I did manage to get my refund from my T/A, two weeks ago, for the Iceland cruise, although this did not include my deposit.

Waiting for this to be returned

The reason for this return was that I paid my T/A on the 1st March, and the money was still sitting in their funds.

Have deposit paid for 18 day October cruise, and 35 day B2B in May/June next year.

Will not be paying balance for October, and will wait to see where we are in the New year.

 

 

Almost exactly the same as me.  All my conversations have been firstly when the lady phoned me, after I had emailed Paul Ludlow's office.   She agreed the refund over the phone on or about March 13th, then as I had not had confirmation, I emailed her and she responded.  I am still in email correspondence with her.  I am also booked for the 18 day October cruise, but won't be paying the balance.

[mercury7289]

18 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

Almost exactly the same as me.  All my conversations have been firstly when the lady phoned me, after I had emailed Paul Ludlow's office.   She agreed the refund over the phone on or about March 13th, then as I had not had confirmation, I emailed her and she responded.  I am still in email correspondence with her.  I am also booked for the 18 day October cruise, but won't be paying the balance.

Jean,

I went for full refund, I believe you said you went for 40% refund and 60% FCC, did you change your mind?

[jeanlyon]

No first of all she offered me an FCC, but then she spoke to our friend who was recovering from being very ill (we think Covid) and she agreed to refund her and us.  That was March 13th, I think.  Confirmed in an email on March 16th.  It was never 40%?

[Eglesbrech]

1 hour ago, mercury7289 said:

Selbourne

 

Thank you,

All my dealings were via E-mail, I did not phone them, or start to chase until 45 days.

I did not quote chapter and verse at them, rather took a softer more light hearted approach.

I did manage to get my refund from my T/A, two weeks ago, for the Iceland cruise, although this did not include my deposit.

Waiting for this to be returned

The reason for this return was that I paid my T/A on the 1st March, and the money was still sitting in their funds.

Have deposit paid for 18 day October cruise, and 35 day B2B in May/June next year.

Will not be paying balance for October, and will wait to see where we are in the New year.

 

 

It’s good to hear that someone has been refunded as it seemed as if they were not processing any, or at least very few.

 

Like you I did not contact them until day 46 and did so politely in writing. So far I have not even had the courtesy of a reply. 
 

In my opinion they are causing some of their own problems and the avalanche of emails, texts, posts, tweets etc through lack of communication. There is no clarity about how they are processing the refunds, by date of application or by date of cruise. It seems to change depending on who asks the question.

 

They have changed the goalposts numerous times and don’t even communicate this very well, 45 days, 45 working days, 60 days, 60 working days etc

 

In spite of hundreds of questions they refuse to state what date / cruise they are up to. This would be a simple way of letting people know what’s happening. By not answering the question it looks like the whole process is just haphazard and so just the luck of the draw who gets their refund and when. They must know this causes real annoyance and looks like they are hiding some other motive.

 

The tone of the discussion on here is generally polite and considered which is not the case on other media. The bad publicity and really negative comments must affect their future business. At first there were a lot of supportive voices for P&O, people who said they were doing a marvellous job in difficult circumstances. There are very few comments to that effect now with regard to refunds (there are a few for FCCs where they do appear to be staffing up to deal with requests).

 

We will not be paying the balance on any of our future cruises with P&O either, a combination of concern about travel until a vaccine is available and being annoyed at the way P&O have handled this whole situation.  Treat your customers with contempt and you will lose at least some of them or retain them on terms that won’t add greatly to profits eg only for very last minute bookings.

[mercury7289]

3 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

It’s good to hear that someone has been refunded as it seemed as if they were not processing any, or at least very few.

 

Like you I did not contact them until day 46 and did so politely in writing. So far I have not even had the courtesy of a reply. 
 

In my opinion they are causing some of their own problems and the avalanche of emails, texts, posts, tweets etc through lack of communication. There is no clarity about how they are processing the refunds, by date of application or by date of cruise. It seems to change depending on who asks the question.

 

They have changed the goalposts numerous times and don’t even communicate this very well, 45 days, 45 working days, 60 days, 60 working days etc

 

In spite of hundreds of questions they refuse to state what date / cruise they are up to. This would be a simple way of letting people know what’s happening. By not answering the question it looks like the whole process is just haphazard and so just the luck of the draw who gets their refund and when. They must know this causes real annoyance and looks like they are hiding some other motive.

 

The tone of the discussion on here is generally polite and considered which is not the case on other media. The bad publicity and really negative comments must affect their future business. At first there were a lot of supportive voices for P&O, people who said they were doing a marvellous job in difficult circumstances. There are very few comments to that effect now with regard to refunds (there are a few for FCCs where they do appear to be staffing up to deal with requests).

 

We will not be paying the balance on any of our future cruises with P&O either, a combination of concern about travel until a vaccine is available and being annoyed at the way P&O have handled this whole situation.  Treat your customers with contempt and you will lose at least some of them or retain them on terms that won’t add greatly to profits eg only for very last minute bookings.

I think you have summed it up rather well!

[jeanlyon]

Agree with you.  I would imagine they have very few staff able to process refunds.  Some will be sort out refunds to cc's or debit cards, or bank accounts.  Others will be doing cheques.  Then as she told me, someone collects all the chequs and has to post them!!

[Manx buoy]

43 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

It’s good to hear that someone has been refunded as it seemed as if they were not processing any, or at least very few.

 

Like you I did not contact them until day 46 and did so politely in writing. So far I have not even had the courtesy of a reply. 
 

In my opinion they are causing some of their own problems and the avalanche of emails, texts, posts, tweets etc through lack of communication. There is no clarity about how they are processing the refunds, by date of application or by date of cruise. It seems to change depending on who asks the question.

 

They have changed the goalposts numerous times and don’t even communicate this very well, 45 days, 45 working days, 60 days, 60 working days etc

 

In spite of hundreds of questions they refuse to state what date / cruise they are up to. This would be a simple way of letting people know what’s happening. By not answering the question it looks like the whole process is just haphazard and so just the luck of the draw who gets their refund and when. They must know this causes real annoyance and looks like they are hiding some other motive.

 

The tone of the discussion on here is generally polite and considered which is not the case on other media. The bad publicity and really negative comments must affect their future business. At first there were a lot of supportive voices for P&O, people who said they were doing a marvellous job in difficult circumstances. There are very few comments to that effect now with regard to refunds (there are a few for FCCs where they do appear to be staffing up to deal with requests).

 

We will not be paying the balance on any of our future cruises with P&O either, a combination of concern about travel until a vaccine is available and being annoyed at the way P&O have handled this whole situation.  Treat your customers with contempt and you will lose at least some of them or retain them on terms that won’t add greatly to profits eg only for very last minute bookings.

I saw somewhere they weren’t responding to written requests only all the others means of contact. I’ve just spent the last hour listening to sleazyjets holding music eventually being answered only to be told the same as all the other companies we have your request but it may take up to 90 days now instead of 28 but rest assured you’ll get it🤷‍♂️  At least the music was better than most I’ve been listening to lately😂

[funinhounslow]

48 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

Agree with you.  I would imagine they have very few staff able to process refunds.  Some will be sort out refunds to cc's or debit cards, or bank accounts.  Others will be doing cheques.  Then as she told me, someone collects all the chequs and has to post them!!

 

O'Leary (Ryanair) said on the radio that rescheduling a flight or going for a voucher/credit note is an automated process as opposed to refunds which have to be manually processed. Make of that what you will, but it does have the "ring of truth" especially when considered with this. I would imagine having staff working from home adds another layer of complication.

 

My own experience backs this up - went for FCC which my travel agent was able to "see" on my account days later.

[Selbourne]

1 hour ago, jeanlyon said:

Agree with you.  I would imagine they have very few staff able to process refunds.  Some will be sort out refunds to cc's or debit cards, or bank accounts.  Others will be doing cheques.  Then as she told me, someone collects all the chequs and has to post them!!

Given the lack of new bookings I should think that they have a lot of staff available to process refunds. I can’t imagine that the cheques are hand written and any decent company should have a computer process that churns them out automatically with the customers name and address printed on the tear off slip above which is visible behind a window envelope. As for the excuse of posting them that’s laughable. At a charity that I was involved with there was a very elderly and quite infirm chap well into his 80’s who on his own, with lots of chatting and tea breaks, could stuff hundreds and hundreds of appeal letters a day. Posting them in bulk takes seconds and with a company would usually involve a Royal Mail pick up from the office. So I’m afraid that none of those excuses that they are giving out hold any water with me. The one thing that I would concede is probably a factor in slowing things (deliberate cash flow retention aside) is that their IT is absolutely dire at the best of times and with some staff working from home I can imagine it’s a car crash. Perhaps this crisis might teach them once and for all that they need to replace their overall Head of IT and get someone in who can make it fit for purpose. This is now 10 years overdue, so I won’t hold my breath!

[jeanlyon]

Agree again.  We have the same problem with our IT both at work (Local Council) and here at home where the connection drops out, even though my home broadband is connected just fine.

 

However, I am processing payments and sending out items in the post.  I have had the last lot of post - 250 items - awaiting pickup for 2 weeks and they have only just gone, so it's probably the same.

Edited May 5, 2020 by jeanlyon

[Son of Anarchy]

This whole of cheques adding to the delay doesn't wash with me either.  Many years ago ack in the days of Girocheques the office I was in at the time had to pay over 2,500 people locally rather then the computer sending the Giro in the post.

 

About 10 of us manually wrote the giros as well as complete associated paperwork, and put the giros in envelopes, which didn't have windows, therefore writing the address on them as well, and franking the envelopes.

 

Post Office wouldn't collect from the office, so the manager and I put all the post in a couple of shopping bags and walked over to the sorting office.

 

It took two days.  

 

Some people got their giros early that week!

[kalos]

1 hour ago, funinhounslow said:

 

O'Leary (Ryanair) said on the radio that rescheduling a flight or going for a voucher/credit note is an automated process as opposed to refunds which have to be manually processed. Make of that what you will, but it does have the "ring of truth" especially when considered with this. I would imagine having staff working from home adds another layer of complication.

 

My own experience backs this up - went for FCC which my travel agent was able to "see" on my account days later.

 

O'Leary was also on TV and was explaining as to why the cash refunds will take time and as you say he had

" a ring of truth in what he said .

I  have set the interview to play from him talking about cash refunds on YouTube but to be honest if you play it

from the start a lot of what he is saying does make sense about the situation were all in .

 

 

[jeanlyon]

Yes but it's not as simple as just issuing a cheque.  Most of these have a TA involved who has commission.  All their commission rates can be different, so that has to be worked out.  I'm sure there are lots more things involved as well.

[ohnonotmeagain]

I wonder if also they are having to have things double checked in case of fraud ,ie.paying vast quantities of money into their friends bank accounts and splitting the difference ??? Just a thought. 

[zap99]

9 minutes ago, ohnonotmeagain said:

I wonder if also they are having to have things double checked in case of fraud ,ie.paying vast quantities of money into their friends bank accounts and splitting the difference ??? Just a thought. 

There is a Nigerian prince who can help you get your refund. He's helping Me with PPI. He has the cheque and can pay it into my bank, now I have given him the numbers and pin. Won't be long how he assured me.

Edited May 5, 2020 by zap99
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