Cruise Org's Response to 100 Day Suspension

[Fouremco]

8 minutes ago, npcl said:

A significant change as far as the law goes is the same as a cancellation.  One can either accept the change or request a refund.

Too bad there isn't a similar law governing cruises. Changing a Maine/Canada cruise to a Maine/Bahamas cruise is definitely a significant change, but Celebrity views this as being no different than missing a port at the last minute because of bad weather.

[MarLieb]

1 hour ago, Fouremco said:

Too bad there isn't a similar law governing cruises. Changing a Maine/Canada cruise to a Maine/Bahamas cruise is definitely a significant change, but Celebrity views this as being no different than missing a port at the last minute because of bad weather.

 

Kind of OT, but I was thinking the same thing with sporting events!  We bought tickets to a G-League basketball game for March 28 which never happened because they "postponed" the season.  They are NOT offering refunds, saying the event is now TBA, so basically they are saying they can reschedule this game whenever they want and we have to go to that one or we lose all of our money.  We only buy tickets for dates we know we can go and if they reschedule this game for a school night or in a venue that is far from us, we are out hundreds of dollars.  It just doesn't seem right to me.  I think the law should apply here as well - we can accept the change or, perhaps accept a voucher to purchase tickets to a game (that will actually happen!) on a date that works for us or they should refund our money. 

[Fouremco]

Consumer protection laws have come a long way, but still have some distance to go. Canada instituted new passenger rights protection last year, but the airlines are making a mockery of them. Court cases will ensue, and some improvements will result, but there will continue to be loopholes.   

[az_tchr]

15 hours ago, rte said:

Im sure the increase in new Covid cases that have been reported in China due to overseas

travelers has not come from cruise ships.

Me thinks it might be the airplane again.

Actually it appears to be mostly trains and ferries.  Not a mode of transport we think about.  Similar transfer rate as passengers are in close proximity for longer periods of time.

Your airplane argument is valid in that airplanes move people from one place to another and some of those are infected.  Where it fails is people are not that close now on planes.  Many airlines require masks - especially in China and Japan.  Lots harder to get sick on an hour plane flight while wearing a mask.

Do you think people would agree to wear masks outside their cabin for an entire cruise?

[RICCruisers]

6 hours ago, npcl said:

Certainly the cruise lines have to take responsibility and do more to provide care.  While they can certainly do so when cases come up, not much they can do to prevent spread of a URI.

 

As far as the aircraft carrier. The medical facilities are designed for handling combat casualties efficiently, infectious disease not so much. It is the same reason why the hospital ships are being used for non-covid cases, off loading them from shore side hospitals.  They are designed for traumatic injuries, not infectious disease.  In both cases crew quarters are very crowded (think stacked bunks fitted in tight quarters.  Far far more dense than crew ship quarters.

 

In a war time setting, the approach would be to let it burn through, accept the casualties and hope enough of the crew could function to operate the ship as it did so.  In peace time  you still had the tendency to operate that way leading to the Captain's letter.

 

In fact the crew quarters on aircraft carriers are shared bunks based on work schedules. 

[az_tchr]

   I have flown for business. In both February and March.  Terminal seating for passengers is spaced.  No use of center seats.  Almost everyone wears a mask.  What did the cruise lines do in March when they were aware of covid19? How about wearing a mask outside your cabin during a cruise.   What you are missing is cruises do not fill a necessary function.  They are great, but business requires airplanes to move people and materials.  Nobody needs a cruise ship.

[s0479]

41 minutes ago, az_tchr said:

   I have flown for business. In both February and March.  Terminal seating for passengers is spaced.  No use of center seats.  Almost everyone wears a mask.  What did the cruise lines do in March when they were aware of covid19? How about wearing a mask outside your cabin during a cruise.   What you are missing is cruises do not fill a necessary function.  They are great, but business requires airplanes to move people and materials.  Nobody needs a cruise ship.

The flights I were on were not at all what you described. Very few masks, 100% full including middle seats.

[RICCruisers]

45 minutes ago, az_tchr said:

   I have flown for business. In both February and March.  Terminal seating for passengers is spaced.  No use of center seats.  Almost everyone wears a mask.  What did the cruise lines do in March when they were aware of covid19? How about wearing a mask outside your cabin during a cruise.   What you are missing is cruises do not fill a necessary function.  They are great, but business requires airplanes to move people and materials.  Nobody needs a cruise ship.

 

We also flew flew in February and March. Used terminals in Newark, Chicago, Houston and Phoenix. I cannot agree about the spacing of passengers on the plane or sitting in the terminal. A few people using masks, mostly Asian. No announcements encouraging distancing. Dates were February 7, 29 and March 7. 

[rimmit]

I flew Feb 29 from Jackson Hole via ORD to Charleston, WV.  
 

It was business as usual.  Saw maybe 2 masks in all of ORD.  Flight was totally full and asking for bumps.  Terminals were business as usual.  Would never have known any different.  
 

Flew to Orlando Feb 18-20.  Also business as usual.  Plane had maybe 6 empty seats.

 

As far as the airlines were concerned this was mainly in Asia at that point in time.

[markeb]

Anyone flown after March 13?

[npcl]

1 hour ago, rimmit said:

I flew Feb 29 from Jackson Hole via ORD to Charleston, WV.  
 

It was business as usual.  Saw maybe 2 masks in all of ORD.  Flight was totally full and asking for bumps.  Terminals were business as usual.  Would never have known any different.  
 

Flew to Orlando Feb 18-20.  Also business as usual.  Plane had maybe 6 empty seats.

 

As far as the airlines were concerned this was mainly in Asia at that point in time.

Flew from LAX after a cruise on March 7.  At 2 mp on Saturday terminal 6 was near empty.  No lines at any of the food areas.  Most seating areas empty.  We say more people in the airport on Feb 28 at midnight, than we saw at 2 pm on March 7.

[s0479]

59 minutes ago, markeb said:

Anyone flown after March 13?

I did.

[markeb]

15 minutes ago, s0479 said:

I did.

 

What was it like? I've seen a lot of press showing near empty planes. Most of the folks who responded flew before things really started shutting down, so I was curious.

 

I flew from Sacramento to Seattle on September 16. 2001. It was the first day of flights from Sacramento. Business trip. The absolutely strangest day I've ever seen at an airport or on a plane. The trip home a few days later was more normal, but still not normal.

[s0479]

2 minutes ago, markeb said:

 

What was it like? I've seen a lot of press showing near empty planes. Most of the folks who responded flew before things really started shutting down, so I was curious.

 

I flew from Sacramento to Seattle on September 16. 2001. It was the first day of flights from Sacramento. Business trip. The absolutely strangest day I've ever seen at an airport or on a plane. The trip home a few days later was more normal, but still not normal.

I flew on March 17.  Two legs, airport very full for first leg, planes relatively full for both legs, one was completely but can’t remember if first or second flight.  Very few masks, guy hacking up a lung in row behind me coughing into his hand. 😡 on first flight, would have thought the airline would have done something.  Second airport not as busy but still folks around.  More social distancing in that airport but certainly not on plane.  No extra health screenings at either airport.  Arrival airport very empty.

[markeb]

3 minutes ago, s0479 said:

I flew on March 17.  Two legs, airport very full for first leg, planes relatively full for both legs, one was completely but can’t remember if first or second flight.  Very few masks, guy hacking up a lung in row behind me coughing into his hand. 😡 on first flight, would have thought the airline would have done something.  Second airport not as busy but still folks around.  More social distancing in that airport but certainly not on plane.  No extra health screenings at either airport.  Arrival airport very empty.

 

Thanks. In a normal year, I'd probably already be 25K miles, but this isn't a normal year for me. Haven't flown since January, but United has extended my 1K for a year. Hopefully I'll be back in the air in 2021, and maybe even late this year.

[Boatharbour]

21 hours ago, rte said:

True or not Covid -19 arrived by air and we had no idea it was here until the infected fell sick.

Should we consider legal action against the airline?

It may well have arrived by air to start with, but the criminal investigation taking place in to the Ruby Princess is about  the  actions of the ships management after the illness became apparent on board - on two cruises. 
If their actions are found to be wanting, then they should be held to account. 

 

[rte]

53 minutes ago, Boatharbour said:

It may well have arrived by air to start with, but the criminal investigation taking place in to the Ruby Princess is about  the  actions of the ships management after the illness became apparent on board - on two cruises. 
If their actions are found to be wanting, then they should be held to account. 

 

I am not sure why you have aimed your comment at me about the Ruby Princess.Just remember

if we could not fly we would not be up this creek and some of the responsablity must go to the airlines.

I

[Pushka]

2 hours ago, rte said:

I am not sure why you have aimed your comment at me about the Ruby Princess.Just remember

if we could not fly we would not be up this creek and some of the responsablity must go to the airlines.

I

The passenger who infected Princess Diamond did not fly to the cruise.

[yorky]

My personal opinion is that cruises went ahead that should have been cancelled, and many people chose to board those ships when it was pretty obvious they were taking a risk. Just watched a YouTube video by a couple on an Asia cruise, that cruise itinerary was changed as it progressed but the virus was evident in Asia before people even boarded. Everyone played a part in this whether choosing to cruise, Fly, travel across borders, and the cruise companies played a part in that.

Edited April 14, 2020 by yorky

[Boatharbour]

3 hours ago, rte said:

I am not sure why you have aimed your comment at me about the Ruby Princess.Just remember

if we could not fly we would not be up this creek and some of the responsablity must go to the airlines.

I

The airlines are not responsible for what is alleged to have happened on the Ruby Princess. 

[Pushka]

1 hour ago, yorky said:

My personal opinion is that cruises went ahead that should have been cancelled, and many people chose to board those ships when it was pretty obvious they were taking a risk. Just watched a YouTube video by a couple on an Asia cruise, that cruise itinerary was changed as it progressed but the virus was evident in Asia before people even boarded. Everyone played a part in this whether choosing to cruise, Fly, travel across borders, and the cruise companies played a part in that.

I agree the cruises needed to be cancelled. But cruiselines told everyone they were safe and that measures were put in place. But that pledge was wrong. They simply didn't want to lose all the money when a cancellation happened so they took the risk. 

[yorky]

1 hour ago, Pushka said:

I agree the cruises needed to be cancelled. But cruiselines told everyone they were safe and that measures were put in place. But that pledge was wrong. They simply didn't want to lose all the money when a cancellation happened so they took the risk. 

But people knew there were cases in the areas they were travelling to with Asia being one example. A cruise ship is only as safe as the people on it and as with other viruses it only takes a couple of people to bring that onboard. It was not just the cruise lines that took the risk, it was also those that travelled to infected areas. Those last groups of people that boarded before cruising was a good as shut down even more so because as we all know by then it had travelled around much of the world, It’s a joint responsibility. In that YouTube video I mentioned the individual pointed out right at the beginning of the cruise that it was quiet and that may be because of the virus, so why travel in the first place ?

[Pushka]

5 minutes ago, yorky said:

But people knew there were cases in the areas they were travelling to with Asia being one example. A cruise ship is only as safe as the people on it and as with other viruses it only takes a couple of people to bring that onboard. It was not just the cruise lines that took the risk, it was also those that travelled to infected areas. Those last groups of people that boarded before cruising was a good as shut down even more so because as we all know by then it had travelled around much of the world, It’s a joint responsibility. In that YouTube video I mentioned the individual pointed out right at the beginning of the cruise that it was quiet and that may be because of the virus, so why travel in the first place ?

The cruiselines all assured passengers their safety was paramount. That was an assurance they could not give. I'd suggest knowingly. 

[yorky]

30 minutes ago, Pushka said:

The cruiselines all assured passengers their safety was paramount. That was an assurance they could not give. I'd suggest knowingly. 

Safety paramount when on the ship, a guarantee that if you travelled you could not catch the virus ? A very different thing. As I say joint responsibility. People made their own decision to travel fully aware of what was going on around them. I caught Norovirus on a cruise ship 10 years ago, I’m sure my safety was paramount at that time. We are all surely aware that no ship/ plane can put a huge bubble around us protecting us from everything.

Edited April 14, 2020 by yorky

[Pushka]

13 minutes ago, yorky said:

Safety paramount when on the ship, a guarantee that if you travelled you could not catch the virus ? A very different thing. As I say joint responsibility. People made their own decision to travel fully aware of what was going on around them. I caught Norovirus on a cruise ship 10 years ago, I’m sure my safety was paramount at that time. We are all surely aware that no ship/ plane can put a huge bubble around us protecting us from everything.

The cruiselines, many of them, placed their revenue ahead of passenger safety. That fact is what will govern which cruiseline I will take in future cruises. It won't be Princess, nor celebrity.