Cruise Org's Response to 100 Day Suspension

[Georgia_Peaches]

13 hours ago, MarLieb said:

The US doesn't need them. 

Not that I disagree with much of what you said, respectfully, tell that to all the businesses and workers currently out of a job as a result of the cruise industry halt.  It's a micro-economy that supports many American jobs.  

[MarLieb]

8 minutes ago, Georgia_Peaches said:

Not that I disagree with much of what you said, respectfully, tell that to all the businesses and workers currently out of a job as a result of the cruise industry halt.  It's a micro-economy that supports many American jobs.  

 

I totally agree with you.  I just meant, as a whole, if you look at the cruise industry impact on the whole US economy, it's not very big.  If you look at how it impacts individual US citizens who rely on cruises to make their living, yes, it could be devastating and I certainly feel for them.  I'm sorry if my comment sounded crass.  I was definitely commenting on the macro-level. 

[Georgia_Peaches]

1 minute ago, MarLieb said:

 

I totally agree with you.  I just meant, as a whole, if you look at the cruise industry impact on the whole US economy, it's not very big.  If you look at how it impacts individual US citizens who rely on cruises to make their living, yes, it could be devastating and I certainly feel for them.  I'm sorry if my comment sounded crass.  I was definitely commenting on the macro-level. 

Don't you just love it when two CC members can have a civilized conversation without name calling and insults...thank you for your explanation.  I totally get that perspective. ☺️

[MarLieb]

1 minute ago, Georgia_Peaches said:

Don't you just love it when two CC members can have a civilized conversation without name calling and insults...thank you for your explanation.  I totally get that perspective. ☺️

 

🙂 

[MarLieb]

2 hours ago, WrittenOnYourHeart said:

 

And what's to say they are not doing just that? It IS possible to have multiple groups working on different things at the same time.

 

(Just to note: I don't know if they are or they aren't. But I do know that most companies/corporations/organizations are quite adept at having multiple groups working on different things at the same time.)

 

I know - I was kind of kidding when I wrote that!  I would suspect their PR department is not working on the actual plan needed by the CDC.  🙂

[MarLieb]

1 hour ago, waterbug123 said:

 

Actually, it's about a lot more than just whether or not other countries let them embark/disembark.  If cruises cannot operate out of the US, that means a HUGE % of cruise pax must fly internationally to a port to embark.  That's going to eliminate a lot of cruisers and/or cause a lot of them to cruise a lot less often.

 

 

I was thinking the same thing.  I know a lot of US citizens do not travel with passports on closed-loop cruises and that would certainly have to change and then there is the cost to fly internationally, etc.  It would definitely change the cruising landscape.

[C-Dragons]

12 minutes ago, Georgia_Peaches said:

Not that I disagree with much of what you said, respectfully, tell that to all the businesses and workers currently out of a job as a result of the cruise industry halt.  It's a micro-economy that supports many American jobs.  

This.
I think most people don't realize how connected the cruise industry is to so many other businesses.

The majority of passengers fly to their cruises, giving business to the Airlines. Those people stay pre, and sometimes, post cruise in Hotels. They eat in Restaurants. They take take taxis, shop in local stores, take local tours, etc.. The cruise lines pay for services by dock workers, food suppliers, the list goes on and on.

In states with cruise ports, such as Florida, they bring a lot of revenue into the local economy. Fort Lauderdale realized how important this revenue is. They partnered with Celebrity to build the T25 terminal, spending over a hundred million dollars. Miami has joined Fort Lauderdale, investing in 6 new terminals to support the cruise lines. I wonder how the Florida economy (or any state connected to the cruise industry) will fare going forward, if they push the cruise industry away.

 

 

 

Celebrity Edge Arrives At New Port Everglades Terminal

Tuesday, November 20, 2018 4:00 PM

See the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2eCs_MR-gY

BROWARD COUNTY, FL -- Port Everglades and Celebrity Cruises enjoyed a double celebration with the arrival of the line’s first new ship class in a decade, Celebrity Edge, at her new home, the revolutionary Cruise Terminal 25 (T25).

“The investment in this innovative terminal is going to allow us to grow,” said Port Everglades Chief Executive & Port Director Steven Cernak. “Historically, Port Everglades welcomed on average approximately 335,000 Celebrity guests annually, representing about 9 percent of overall passenger traffic. With the completion of this terminal, we anticipate that Celebrity will generate approximately 500,000 guests – representing 14 percent of the port's projected passenger traffic.”

T25 underwent a complete renovation, requiring the demolition of two smaller terminals to expand the total square footage by 83 percent to 157,800 square feet. With a cost of approximately $120 million, the new facility is the largest financial investment Port Everglades has made in a cruise terminal.

"When designing the revolutionary Celebrity Edge, we knew we wanted to design a terminal that perfectly complemented the ship and matched its one-of-a-kind experience," said Lisa Lutoff-Perlo, President and CEO, Celebrity Cruises.

In addition to Celebrity Edge, T25 will be the new home to many Celebrity ships during their winter deployment, including Celebrity Infinity, Celebrity Reflection and Celebrity Silhouette. Along with these ships, the terminal will be able to accommodate other ships up to 1,150-foot-long.

The cruise ship activity at T25 is anticipated to support an estimated 280 direct local jobs and more than 600 jobs statewide. Almost $7.4 million will be generated in state and local taxes annually.

The building was designed for LEED certification by architectural firm Bermello Ajamil & Partners, Inc., with Moss Construction serving as the managing general contractor. The Port Everglades Seaport Engineering and Facilities Maintenance Division was integral in ensuring timely project delivery.

New “expedited arrival” technology in T25 will make the check-in process seamless. The terminal is designed to be adaptive, featuring modern pod-style mobile check-in desks and is able to accommodate legacy technology.

[C-Dragons]

14 hours ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

 

The last paragraph in the article is the only one that presents a decent case and is a topic they need to highlight. Doing so without coming off like they are on the defense will be a challenge. 

“While it’s easy to focus on cruising because of its high profile, the fact is cruising is neither the source or cause of the virus or its spread. What is different about the cruise industry is the very stringent reporting requirements applicable to vessels that do not apply to comparable venues on land where the spread of communicable disease is just as prevalent. It would be a false assumption to connect higher frequency and visibility in reporting to a higher frequency of infection.”

I agree, the last paragraph is significant. They are stating a fact that they are being singled out as being a predominant factor for the spread of the contagion, while the government doesn’t appear to be laying any blame on the Airlines. How did the virus get into our country? Mainly by passengers arriving on planes from different parts of the world. How did the virus get aboard the cruise ships? By passengers arriving via the same Airlines. What precautions have the airlines been required to put in place to help contain the spread of the virus aside from taking passenger's

temperatures and asking them where they've recently traveled? Are any passengers required to have a note from their Doctors saying they’re healthy to travel for hours in an enclosed space? It's hard to practice social distancing on an aircraft.

[bEwAbG]

If these were ocean liners being used solely as transportation, that might be relevant.  These are floating hotels taking people on vacation.  Airplanes serve many more functions.  Most flights are short in duration versus days or weeks long.  They therefore never get to the point of becoming sick wards that require so many government resources (federal, state, & local).  It's this last issue that has put cruise lines on the ropes because most governments, particularly the U.S. government, have insisted the industry come up with a way to plan for & pay for these situations going forward.  Basically, the industry shot itself in the foot by not voluntarily stopping cruises sooner, particularly when it was painfully obvious what was likely to (and did) happen.

Edited April 12, 2020 by bEwAbG

[waterbug123]

1 hour ago, MarLieb said:

 

I was thinking the same thing.  I know a lot of US citizens do not travel with passports on closed-loop cruises and that would certainly have to change and then there is the cost to fly internationally, etc.  It would definitely change the cruising landscape.

 

Exactly.  And for a LOT of people, "cruising" is synonymous with "a week in the Caribbean."  Those folks don't cruise to see new places so much as they cruise to have a week of sun and fun.   Beyond the limited number of cruises that can home port in San Juan, that leaves a lot of people giving up cruises in lieu of Florida (or other coastal states) beach vacations.  I mean, when you consider how many ships sail our of Miami, Florida and Port Canaveral alone, never mind Tampa, Galveston, Charleston, LA etc. that's a lot of cruises and a lot of people.

[Denny01]

I’m more than a bit surprised this turned into a ‘they don’t pay taxes’ and so on. the point of the CLIA article is......whaaaaah! I’m an avid cruiser but this is Not the time to go aboard a ship with a few thousand and close up the doors and go to various ports where we can bring it back on board if somehow no one brought it on....which is getting close to impossible since the US rate of infection is 2 in a thousand...think about that one, and think about what the actual infection rate is for those over 50, which is 75% of the passengers......Boy do I Love to throw numbers around!

 

with that said I’d Not go to DisneyWorld (or ...Land), or to any large gathering even after the Stay-at-Home is lifted. CLIA is right in one spot and that is their reporting criteria; but so what. The difference is, we are on a ship long enough for symptoms to show up, but going to some fun park, I get it there, 2 days later go home and come down with it and never sure I didn’t get it from our idiot uncle who thinks its all a conspiracy. 

 

Enough. I’ll wait for what happens with my Oct 2020 cruise and see what options I’ll have....but cruising is becoming one of the ‘Not an Option’ but will wait it out. 

 

Den

[hcat]

48 minutes ago, C-Dragons said:

“While it’s easy to focus on cruising because of its high profile, the fact is cruising is neither the source or cause of the virus or its spread. What is different about the cruise industry is the very stringent reporting requirements applicable to vessels that do not apply to comparable venues on land where the spread of communicable disease is just as prevalent. It would be a false assumption to connect higher frequency and visibility in reporting to a higher frequency of infection.”

I agree, the last paragraph is significant. They are stating a fact that they are being singled out as being a predominant factor for the spread of the contagion, while the government doesn’t appear to be laying any blame on the Airlines. How did the virus get into our country? Mainly by passengers arriving on planes from different parts of the world. How did the virus get aboard the cruise ships? By passengers arriving via the same Airlines. What precautions have the airlines been required to put in place to help contain the spread of the virus aside from taking passenger's

temperatures and asking them where they've recently traveled? Are any passengers required to have a note from their Doctors saying they’re healthy to travel for hours in an enclosed space? It's hard to practice social distancing on an aircraft.

 

Recent articles say that the strain that caused the NY spread came from European travel...not cruisers!  TSA workers and airline employees have been stricken as well as pax.   They should  focus on air travel  too.....maybe the aircrafts should be fully sanitized before they hop up and down all day with very short turnaround times,  On SW Air,  pax deplane and the next group is loaded as quickly as possible. Maybe they should give out masks...too many coughers on board!

[C-Dragons]

You don’t need to travel outside your Zip code to become infected. Anyone could visit their local store to pick up toilet paper and bring it home.  No place is safe at this time, Denny. 😉

Edited April 12, 2020 by C-Dragons

[C-Dragons]

1 hour ago, bEwAbG said:

If these were ocean liners being used solely as transportation, that might be relevant.  These are floating hotels taking people on vacation.  Airplanes serve many more functions.  Most flights are short in duration versus days or weeks long.  They therefore never get to the point of becoming sick wards that require so many government resources (federal, state, & local).  It's this last issue that has put cruise lines on the ropes because most governments, particularly the U.S. government, have insisted the industry come up with a way to plan for & pay for these situations going forward.  Basically, the industry shot itself in the foot by not voluntarily stopping cruises sooner, particularly when it was painfully obvious what was likely to (and did) happen.

Perhaps you are not aware, that over 40,000 passengers on Transatlantic flights were allowed into the US after the epidemic broke out.

They didn’t come over on Ocean Liners, their flights were around 5 hours long, not days or weeks.

The end result is we now have thousands of “sick wards” across our country, requiring significant resources from all levels of government.

But it seems there are many who still want to make the cruise lines a scapegoat.

Edited April 12, 2020 by C-Dragons

[Georgia_Peaches]

@C-Dragons we seem to be on the same page so let me pose this to you...and anyone else who cares to chime in.

 

DH and I just returned from our walk where we thoroughly discussed the world's problems.  Unfortunately, we haven't solved any yet but on the topic of cruising, I mentioned the 100 suspension and DH said, "Well I wonder how long it will take Cozumel or Nassau to build a cruise terminal that Americans (and others) could fly to in lieu of US ports?"  Obviously, they need capital to support such infrastructure needs and it will take time (which was my response to him), but it did make me go hmmm.  Will popular Caribbean ports of call entertain the notion of someday becoming their own cruise embarkation port?  Maybe this should be a new thread...but curious all the same...

[Denny01]

11 minutes ago, C-Dragons said:

Perhaps you are not aware, that over 40,000 passengers on Transatlantic flights were allowed into the US after the epidemic broke out.

They didn’t come over on Ocean Liners, their flights were around 5 hours long, not days or weeks.

The end result is we now have thousands of “sick wards” across our country, requiring significant resources from all levels of government.

But it seems there are many who still want to make the cruise lines a scapegoat.

And over 40,000 people flew in from China After the ban who had ‘waivers’ for business, and this wasn’t people with US passports, this was for business. So much for ‘bans’.

 

Den

[Fouremco]

2 hours ago, MarLieb said:

 

I know a lot of US citizens do not travel with passports on closed-loop cruises and that would certainly have to change and then there is the cost to fly internationally, etc.  It would definitely change the cruising landscape.

That's already changing, as some Caribbean nations now require all visitors, including cruise passengers, to hold passports.

[Iamcruzin]

18 hours ago, LMaxwell said:

It says cruises put a lot of money into the economy so would news agencies please just leave them alone.  Zero new requirements addressed. It reads like a high school sophomore wrote it for an assignment due after homeroom 

🤣🤣....I thought to myself as I read it, think how much more money would go to locals if cruising went away. They would spend full week in a hotel or resort instead of one night and they would be touring the area eating at restaurants and supporting venues by spending more money overall. Now it's one night at Motel 6 with free breakfast and free shuttle to the cruise terminal.

[downsmead]

1 hour ago, Georgia_Peaches said:

@C-Dragons we seem to be on the same page so let me pose this to you...and anyone else who cares to chime in.

 

DH and I just returned from our walk where we thoroughly discussed the world's problems.  Unfortunately, we haven't solved any yet but on the topic of cruising, I mentioned the 100 suspension and DH said, "Well I wonder how long it will take Cozumel or Nassau to build a cruise terminal that Americans (and others) could fly to in lieu of US ports?"  Obviously, they need capital to support such infrastructure needs and it will take time (which was my response to him), but it did make me go hmmm.  Will popular Caribbean ports of call entertain the notion of someday becoming their own cruise embarkation port?  Maybe this should be a new thread...but curious all the same...

Some Caribbean ports already act as embarkation/ disembarkation ports = Barbados, St. Lucia are used by P&O. Tui use ports in the Caribbean, and I’m sure other cruise lines also do. There is a lot to be said for flying in directly to the Caribbean and not having two sea days either side of the cruise to get from, and back to, Miami / Port Everglades.

[Prost Seattle]

Port of Seattle states the cruise industry is a $900M + for our economy, that’s not tax receipts, but total economic impact.  But there are costs to having those tourists as well, as any tourist town could attest.  Right now I’m not certain how happy people will be seeing 3 cruise worth of passengers in the Pike Place Market.  

 

The cruise industry knew exactly what they were doing by being off shore companies.  The payoff is they couldn’t offer pure domestic itineraries for sale.  They never imagined a pandemic wrecking havoc with their futures and seeing other businesses receiving government help and they are closed out.

 

But their choice to be foreign firms to reduce their expenses had hidden costs.  This is one.  I don’t think we should change the rules now.  

[downsmead]

13 minutes ago, Iamcruzin said:

🤣🤣....I thought to myself as I read it, think how much more money would go to locals if cruising went away. They would spend full week in a hotel or resort instead of one night and they would be touring the area eating at restaurants and supporting venues by spending more money overall. Now it's one night at Motel 6 with free breakfast and free shuttle to the cruise terminal.

On the other hand, the main embarkation ports are not that interesting and people would holiday away from the port. Or maybe that is just me. It may also depend on ‘local’. We were due to go down to South Beach for 6 nights after our cruise but would not spend the money to fly there for a holiday.

[WrittenOnYourHeart]

16 minutes ago, Iamcruzin said:

🤣🤣....I thought to myself as I read it, think how much more money would go to locals if cruising went away. They would spend full week in a hotel or resort instead of one night and they would be touring the area eating at restaurants and supporting venues by spending more money overall. Now it's one night at Motel 6 with free breakfast and free shuttle to the cruise terminal.

 

No, to be honest there are very few cruise embarkation points where I would WANT to spend more than one night. Miami and Seattle are the only two I can think of for me had I not already spent enough time in those that I've seen all I want to see.

 

Port Canaveral? Nope - I'll stay in Orlando so the PC area would get none of my money.

Ft Lauderdale? Nope - I love Miami, but BTDT already

New Orleans? Cannot stand that place and won't even look at cruises from there.

Tampa? Not interested in anything around there.

San Diego? Maybe a couple of days, but nowhere near the week I spend on cruises.

NY/NJ? I live here.

Boston? See San Diego's answer.

Baltimore? Nope - I lived in the DC area for several years.

 

So no. If I don't cruise, those embarkation points are NOT on the list of where I'd choose to vacation so rather than getting a day or so's worth of money from me, they'll get nothing.

[WrittenOnYourHeart]

2 minutes ago, downsmead said:

On the other hand, the main embarkation ports are not that interesting and people would holiday away from the port. Or maybe that is just me. It may also depend on ‘local’. We were due to go down to South Beach for 6 nights after our cruise but would not spend the money to fly there for a holiday.

 

Agreed. I was typing my above post as you were posting. 

[MarkWiltonM]

6 hours ago, HS2BS said:

The people employed by the cruise lines, like any other business employees do pay “their taxes”, but  corporate taxes on the billions of dollars earned from the cruising community are not paid here. Cruise lines register in the country that they get the best deal on their foreign earnings.

Ever time anyone cruises they pay the fees and taxes of that port - look at your billing from any cruise line. Line one has the cruise fare and then taxes and fees are added to your cruise on subsequent lines before the total. These fees are the local docking, taxes and other fees that get passed along to us, the cruiser.

 

Hal

 

How is this any different from large, "U.S." corporations like Google and Apple opening large hubs in cities such as Dublin that court them with favorable tax treatment?  The cruise industry is being picked on unfairly.  Cruise ships are large floating hotels with restaurants and entertainment venues.  Why not pick on Las Vegas? Disney World? Airlines?  Ever heard of Legionnaire's disease?  It can contaminate hot water tanks, hot tubs, and cooling towers of large air conditioners. It's often deadly and when it strikes it's usually a hotel.   

[Iamcruzin]

5 hours ago, Georgia_Peaches said:

Not that I disagree with much of what you said, respectfully, tell that to all the businesses and workers currently out of a job as a result of the cruise industry halt.  It's a micro-economy that supports many American jobs.  

Compared to the overall unemployment at this time, the cruise industry accounts for so few.