How we can help Celebrity

[mnocket]

3 minutes ago, ECCruise said:

Wrong. I have a major emotional attachment to Celebrity. And lots of money sitting in their till. 30+ sailed/4booked. 

But not another dime from me. If they fail, so be it. The mistakes they made are in their wheelhouse, not mine. 

Everyone is different I guess.  If I was in your shoes, what once was a positive emotional attachment would quickly flip to the other side - but that's just me.  I truly hope all who have money held by Celebrity get it back.  The fact that there are delays does worry me.  

[HxFx]

14 minutes ago, mnocket said:

Seems to me what we have here is an argument between those people who have an emotional attachment to Celebrity and those who don't.  Neither side is going to prevail and the argument could go on forever.

For me it's not about an emotional attachment. I am new to leisure cruising and don't yet have a strong preference for a cruise line (but loved my southern Caribbean cruise on the Summit!) I just want to help prevent crippling the cruise industry by taking the FCC+  instead of a refund for my cancelled cruise. They are a business, yes, but if everyone demanded a refund I do think that would accelerate their demise. Otherwise they wouldn't be offering $600 OBC.

 

I don't plan on putting additional money in at this time (mostly because it is too hard for hubby and me to synch schedules too far out anyway). But, I figure since I am not yet hurting financially from this crisis, I can leave my money with them for now. I don't consider this a donation since I plan to get a cruise for my money. This in no way prevents me from helping out my local restaurants/businesses.

Edited April 13, 2020 by HxFx

[ECCruise]

2 minutes ago, HxFx said:

For me it's not about an emotional attachment. I am new to leisure cruising and don't yet have a strong preference for a cruise line (but loved my southern Caribbean cruise on the Summit!) I just want to help prevent crippling the cruise industry by taking the FCC+  instead of a refund for my cancelled cruise. They are a business, yes, but if everyone demanded a refund I do think that would accelerate their demise. Otherwise they wouldn't be offering $600 OBC.

 

I don't plan on putting additional money in at this time (mostly because it is too hard for hubby and me to synch schedules too far out anyway). But, I figure since I am not yet hurting financially from this crisis, I can leave my money with them for now. I don't consider this a donation since I plan to get a cruise for my money. This in no way prevents me from helping out my local restaurants/businesses.

You are very new.  The memory of your cruise is very fresh, and it appears very positive. That truly is great!

And yes, feel free to not ask for a refund and opt for an OBC.

 

But by saying "if everyone demanded a refund..." you are putting the onus of an "accelerat(ion) of their demise" on us who want exactly that.

We have well over $14,000 invested in fully paid and deposited cruises spread over 11 future sailings.  Money they have and we don't.  So, yeah, as they are cancelled I want every dime of my dough back, even if it means the eventual demise of the cruise line(s).

[markeb]

10 minutes ago, ECCruise said:

Wrong. I have a major emotional attachment to Celebrity. And lots of money sitting in their till. 30+ sailed/4booked. 

But not another dime from me. If they fail, so be it. The mistakes they made are in their wheelhouse, not mine. 

 

I'm with you on this one. I don't have that level of experience with Celebrity, but we've cruised RCI a lot and made the transition to Celebrity. Emotional attachment does not equate to any need to help out a multi-billion dollar international corporation.

 

I've owned Oldsmobiles and SAABs. Had a huge emotional attachment to SAAB. Both of them are gone, along with Pontiac, Saturn, and Mercury (and probably others I've forgotten), during the last recession.

 

I'm having a hard time foreseeing this not going at least to the end of the year. Not the current shutdown/stay at home, but cruising is not going to be the first industry to return to a new normal. The 2018 flu came back, more than once as I recall. To believe there won't be some significant pruning of the industry if it goes idle for 9-12 months strikes me as hope over logic.

[billfish]

7 hours ago, DWhit said:

History shows that life went on and returned back to normal after the last big pandemic of the 1919 Spanish Flu. I doubt this one will be much different.

 

Not to take a shot are you but that was over 100 years ago and the world has changed quite a bit since then .    That being said I HOPE YOU ARE RIGHT

[HxFx]

10 minutes ago, ECCruise said:

You are very new.  The memory of your cruise is very fresh, and it appears very positive. That truly is great!

And yes, feel free to not ask for a refund and opt for an OBC.

 

But by saying "if everyone demanded a refund..." you are putting the onus of an "accelerat(ion) of their demise" on us who want exactly that.

We have well over $14,000 invested in fully paid and deposited cruises spread over 11 future sailings.  Money they have and we don't.  So, yeah, as they are cancelled I want every dime of my dough back, even if it means the eventual demise of the cruise line(s).

I would never try to tell others what to do with their money, merely offering a different perspective (particularly as it relates to an emotional attachment). As always, it depends on your circumstances. Yes, I have much less money involved as well. 

 

I may be relatively new to cruising but I am very experienced traveling internationally and think I have a pretty good perspective. Also, I wouldn’t put too much stock into folks Cruise Critic start dates. I’ve been traveling internationally regularly since the 80s but only made my first TripAdvisor comments last year! From reading some of these posts, I gather there are lots of seasoned cruisers who have only recently joined, with fewer than 100 posts. 

[ECCruise]

43 minutes ago, HxFx said:

I would never try to tell others what to do with their money, merely offering a different perspective (particularly as it relates to an emotional attachment). As always, it depends on your circumstances. Yes, I have much less money involved as well. 

 

I may be relatively new to cruising but I am very experienced traveling internationally and think I have a pretty good perspective. Also, I wouldn’t put too much stock into folks Cruise Critic start dates. I’ve been traveling internationally regularly since the 80s but only made my first TripAdvisor comments last year! From reading some of these posts, I gather there are lots of seasoned cruisers who have only recently joined, with fewer than 100 posts. 

I understand completely from where you are coming.  I only reacted because you literally said that if everyone requested a refund it would "accelerate their demise."  Which sounds all the world like if you want your money back and the cruise lines fold, it is on you. That is why I posted my response.

I have no idea when your Cruise Critic start date was nor would I care, if you are somehow referring to me with that.  You said you were new to cruising.  I only cited that.

[HxFx]

Just now, ECCruise said:

I understand completely from where you are coming.  I only reacted because you literally said that if everyone requested a refund it would "accelerate their demise."  Which sounds all the world like if you want your money back and the cruise lines fold, it is on you. That is why I posted my response.

I have no idea when your Cruise Critic start date was nor would I care, if you are somehow referring to me with that.  You said you were new to cruising.  I only cited that.

Thanks, same, hard to understand intent in these texts! When I saw "very" new, it seemed that was a reference to my number of posts (I admittedly come to these sites mostly for advice and don't comment, but it's a different time!) I only meant in my original post that I understand the sentiment to "help" and for me that meant taking the FCC. I would not expect everyone to go for the FCC. I figure the cruise lines are scared of everyone taking a refund which is why they are offering the bonus. I would feel different if I had $14K tied up. If it were for multiple cruises I would then maybe split my decision. BTW, I think the start (or join) date is the date under your pic. In fact, when I thought I was "joining" a few months ago, I was surprised I had already joined in 2018 (when I took my Summit cruise)!

[GeorgesGal]

10 hours ago, islandgirlejfan said:

  Until then, committing dollars to companies that can't even refund their customer's cash in a timely manner is an issue that a lot of us can't afford to take.   

With all the cancelled cruises - March through June/July - they are looking at one/third of their annual income.  I can understand why it is taking a while, to say nothing about the number of passenger refunds involved.

[molemaui]

11 hours ago, yorky said:

You don’t get any more upbeat. The cruise industry will most definitely end if we all take that attitude my friend.

 

It's not an attitude or a wish but a potential fact. The "good news" is the three majors can likely survive  until early-mid 2021 with almost ZERO revenue if reports from financial analysts are to be believed. 

[BP99]

4 minutes ago, molemaui said:

 

It's not an attitude or a wish but a potential fact. The "good news" is the three majors can likely survive  until early-mid 2021 with almost ZERO revenue if reports from financial analysts are to be believed. 

Hi,

You should read:

Cancelled Cruises Refund Tracker

mnocket replied to Argo.'s topic in Celebrity Cruises

[islandgirlejfan]

23 minutes ago, GeorgesGal said:

With all the cancelled cruises - March through June/July - they are looking at one/third of their annual income.  I can understand why it is taking a while, to say nothing about the number of passenger refunds involved.

GeorgesGal, after reading the ongoing refund thread just now, I would say that really might not be the issue.  A poster just added some proof backed up with a balance sheet from RCCL.  I'm really thinking there is some cash flow issues.  

[Pushka]

I do plan on Cruising again. However at this stage I will be doing that on the Cruise line that has bent over backwards to assist their passengers in this awful Covid crisis. And that is Viking. 
 

 

 

 

[treehugr]

Hi Mojo…Congratulations on your booking. My wife willing, I’m hopeful we can book something in the future as well.   First off let me start by apologizing, I read the first couple of pages and some of what I write has probably already been written. I don’t believe there is a right or wrong position to have on this topic and I certainly don’t begrudge anyone that doesn’t align with my own. Regardless of what side of the fence one might fall, I think we all have a love for cruising and want the cruise lines  to resume sailing and to do well.

 

My thoughts are eventually everyone has a break point in which their affinity for a cruise line, or for that matter any product / service, reaches a tipping point. For some folks that tipping point is maybe 1 cancelled cruise. For others that tipping point maybe 1, 2, 3, or more cruises. The bottom line though is everyone has a tipping point in which they find their support waning for that cruise line and clamoring for their money back, just like the cruiser demanding his / her money back after 1 cancelled cruise.

 

“Show these shareholders that we're here and ready to sail after this lockdown.” I struggle with that and will only state I wished I shared your enthusiasm on this one. I question whether the shareholders themselves are as enthusiastic, or possibly bailing out why they can. After Carnival’s newest line of cancellations, cruise line stock prices once again plummeted today. While my reasoning for a refund are purely personal / financial, I don’t fault anyone for being concerned about the long term viability of cruise lines and being hesitant in handing over additional cash to them when there is so much uncertainty.

 

Just my 2 cents, sure hope they’re not perceived as a negative against X. My wife and I have many cruises under our belts and are looking forward to the day when we can resume.

Edited April 13, 2020 by treehugr

[molemaui]

4 hours ago, BP99 said:

Hi,

You should read:

Cancelled Cruises Refund Tracker

mnocket replied to Argo.'s topic in Celebrity Cruises

 

Thanks-really good information. My people strongly advised against buying either RCL or CCL despite low prices citing it was gambling not investing but did venture the opinion that they felt they would "get through it" but not define how except to say they had enough access to cash. 

 

 

[Shadow9612]

14 hours ago, cynbar said:

I rather doubt that Celebrity would be too sympathetic if I were having financial issues --- I'm pretty sure they would proceed as "business as usual."

They aren't being sympathetic - the length of  time they are taking to process refunds is unreasonable.  Many people are in a financial crisis and need their funds back immediately. 

[Mojogurued]

I see where everyone is coming from I really do, but...

 

I can't imagine seeing M class under some other cruise line, and S class with some different logo and flag. The shareholders have to do what they have to do I guess, but right now it is our time to decide what is the best for us. I don't want to sit in a lounger years from now, on what was once a Celebrity ship, but owned by some 2nd rate vulture cruise line. I am just wandering what we can do now to stop it.

[BP99]

My MAJOR problem with Celebrity (and RCL that owns them) is the lack of

honesty with refunds. The excuses for not giving a cash refund is amazing.

Everything from: too many to process, computers can't handle the amount,

need more time (60-90 days now), only processing refunds once a week,

credit companies cannot process them in time. I've read all of them.

Occasionally I get excited to see someone who gets a refund.

Then I find out that they were getting FCC (IOU's). My favourite is a person who

said they got a cash refund!! Later I find out it was for a upgrade bid (they took

the FCC). Or getting a refund for their drink package!! I have yet to see a single

person get a cash refund for their cruise (the BIG bucks). A few that got full

cash refunds were through their credit card companies. Unfortunately,

there is a time limit on when you pay for cruise and when you file a dispute. 

We book (usually 3-4 a year) well in advance. We were suppose to go

on 5 this year! Like many on these boards, I have BIG bucks tied up.

I'm losing faith that I will ever see it. 

[ABoatNerd]

BP99- precisely said.

 

A forthright, honest business entity who has the intent to undertake a business activity, will say so and state clearly their method. This would include clarity on impediments and ssues etc - so that the customer, yes the customer, can understand and have reasonable expectations. An example would be - triage the refunds/FCC - cruises cancelled Y date - get refunds on Z date and so on. 

 

Celebrity is exhibiting nothing but half truths, excuses.

 

Doing business with Celebrity in the future should be weighed in the light of how they conducted themselves on this file.

[ECCruise]

8 hours ago, Mojogurued said:

I see where everyone is coming from I really do, but...

 

I can't imagine seeing M class under some other cruise line, and S class with some different logo and flag. The shareholders have to do what they have to do I guess, but right now it is our time to decide what is the best for us. I don't want to sit in a lounger years from now, on what was once a Celebrity ship, but owned by some 2nd rate vulture cruise line. I am just wandering what we can do now to stop it.

That would be the very last of my list of worries.

When Renaissance went belly-up, what replaced them (largely Oceania and Azamara) and absorbed their ships was vastly superior.

[Oceangoer2]

23 hours ago, DWhit said:

History shows that life went on and returned back to normal after the last big pandemic of the 1919 Spanish Flu. I doubt this one will be much different.

Interesting point....I wonder how long it took to 'recover' fully from 1919 flu.  Normal was different following that pandemic than it is today.  Life will go on for us as well but in what fashion?  Reference to Cruising...it SHOULD be different if it's to succeed as before.  Most of us would like some assurances of change - the ships are so over crowded that we can't navigate the OV without a traffic jam everywhere you turn and tables/chairs are definitely not cleaned/sanitized between diners;   the sun cots are literally  jammed together not allowing anyone access - space them out better;  over crowded elevators - limit the number allowed.   Maybe serving/cabin staff should always wear a mask and gloves;  so many sanitation and food serving issues to re-evaluate.

Edited April 14, 2020 by oceangoer2

[TeeRick]

21 hours ago, phoenix_dream said:

We talk about recovering from bankruptcy by quoting US companies and how they did.  These are not US companies.  I don't know what happens when foreign companies go through the same thing.  Is it that same?  Maybe some of you know, but I am not knowledgeable in that regard.  If you know, I would be interested in hearing how it works - perhaps it is the same, I don't know.

phoenix - there have been other threads on this topic.  In essence, a non-US company can file for US chapter 11 bankruptcy protection if they have a subsidiary in the US or have substantial assets, creditors, employees or in general substantial operations in the US.  All of this applies to most cruise lines that we know.

[Ride-The-Waves]

On 4/13/2020 at 8:53 AM, DWhit said:

History shows that life went on and returned back to normal after the last big pandemic of the 1919 Spanish Flu. I doubt this one will be much different.

"Cruising" wasn't an industry in 1919 and I seriously doubt it would have survived the Great Depression.  Better analogy would be those vacation industries that didn't come out of the Depression and the pre-war 1930 then into WWII.  The world changed.  COVID-19 is changing the world today.  "Cruising" will not be the same as is was three months ago.

[markeb]

41 minutes ago, oceangoer2 said:

Interesting point....I wonder how long it took to 'recover' fully from 1919 flu.  Normal was different following that pandemic than it is today.  Life will go on for us as well but in what fashion?  Reference to Cruising...it SHOULD be different if it's to succeed as before.  Most of us would like some assurances of change - the ships are so over crowded that we can't navigate the OV without a traffic jam everywhere you turn and tables/chairs are definitely not cleaned/sanitized between diners;   the sun cots are literally  jammed together not allowing anyone access - space them out better;  over crowded elevators - limit the number allowed.   Maybe serving/cabin staff should always wear a mask and gloves;  so many sanitation and food serving issues to re-evaluate.

 

Recovery from the 1918-1920 (it was multiple years) flu is hard to say as it was also recovery from World War I. A decent argument can be made that "recovery" came in the late 1940's with the Marshall Plan...  That's an exaggeration, but that flu pandemic hit a disproportionate number of the working class and complicated any recovery from the impacts of the war, especially in central Europe and especially in Germany. And probably contributed to the economic depression that led a charismatic, xenophobic Austrian to power in the early 1930's...

[TeeRick]

I will say up front that I have thoroughly enjoyed Celebrity and RCCL for many years.  Great memories for sure.

 

I'd like to get back to the OP Mojogurued's original question in this thread and offer my answer.

How can we help Celebrity?  Or why would I even want to help the future Celebrity?

1) Many of us already have helped them by choice or not- they have a lot of our money tied up in deposits and FCC's

2) A few continue to book future cruises with cash deposits - that helps them but is at significant risk to the person booking

3) Many have booked with FCC's without much of a choice- better than nothing- but it shows  Celebrity will sail with some passenger base- this helps them with their creditors getting loans to remain viable and show future business.

 

I feel no personal need to help Celebrity further because of the substantial amount I have tied up in answer number 1 above.  I have absolutely not booked any additional cruises and will not until cruising starts again and I can actually know the product I am buying. I don't even know what Celebrity will look like once cruising emerges again.  Why would I help them now not knowing what entity I am actually helping? 

Help to my family and neighbors - YES.  Help to an unknown entity out of a sense of nostalgia - NO.