NCL lost our trust forever

[njhorseman]

28 minutes ago, KateQ22003 said:

Ah, but actually they do. It's called technology and it's wonderful.

All your posts ignore the fact that everyone getting  a refund had to choose whether they want an FCC or a cash refund. That means every refund request has to be manually entered into the system. The "technology' as you call it doesn't know  that you want a refund until it's told. That takes some time and even more time given the current environment when a lot of people are working from their home, not in the office. even if everyone were working in the office there wouldn't be enough staff to handle this extraordinarily large and unanticipated volume of work.

 

As someone who has manged a major corporate data processing system I find your comments totally lacking any understanding of how this process works. I'm not saying it should take 90 days, but this is not something that can be done quickly.

Edited April 14, 2020 by njhorseman

[Murph269]

7 minutes ago, buckeyefrank said:

The staff they have is most likely very limited.  Yes NCL is a large corporation but their staff who processes refunds is probably less than 5 people total in the department on a 'normal' day.  For each cruise, they will need to match up the refund request from the client against their paid balance.  They will need to mark the account for a refund of the paid amounts.  The system will most likely generate a penalty for a portion or all of the cruise amount paid.  The NCL worker will then need to override that amount and get it into the batch for payment processing.  They then need to make sure that all cruisers on the specific sailing either have been given FCC or a refund.  

 

There is a LOT of human intervention that is needed to make sure refunds or FCC are correct.  FCC is much easier and faster because their system will certainly have the capability baked in to move payments to FCC.  Not so much for cash refunds within the penalty window.

If this is the case, and they’re processing refunds daily, than we should see stories on here of people receiving refunds in the near future. If we don’t, than it’s safe to assume that NCL is just sitting on the money as long as possible.

[sparks1093]

1 minute ago, Murph269 said:

If this is the case, and they’re processing refunds daily, than we should see stories on here of people receiving refunds in the near future. If we don’t, than it’s safe to assume that NCL is just sitting on the money as long as possible.

Given the small number of people that are active on Cruise Critic that may or may not happen. 

[hallux]

12 minutes ago, buckeyefrank said:

The staff they have is most likely very limited.  Yes NCL is a large corporation but their staff who processes refunds is probably less than 5 people total in the department on a 'normal' day.  For each cruise, they will need to match up the refund request from the client against their paid balance.  They will need to mark the account for a refund of the paid amounts.  The system will most likely generate a penalty for a portion or all of the cruise amount paid.  The NCL worker will then need to override that amount and get it into the batch for payment processing.  They then need to make sure that all cruisers on the specific sailing either have been given FCC or a refund.  

 

There is a LOT of human intervention that is needed to make sure refunds or FCC are correct.  FCC is much easier and faster because their system will certainly have the capability baked in to move payments to FCC.  Not so much for cash refunds within the penalty window.

Not to mention that they also need to match the refund requests to credit card charge-backs to make sure they don't double credit someone.

[mynameisvlad]

3 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

All your posts ignore the fact that everyone getting  a refund had to choose whether they want an FCC or a cash refund. That means every refund request has to be manually entered into the system. The "technology' as you call it doesn't know  that you want a refund until it's told.

And in the same vein, all your comments ignore that this is all code written by a person. The system is set up that way because NCL wanted it set up that way. A programmer could have just as easily made refunds the automated action instead of FCCs, or integrated the refund request into the actual refund system to mark the account as requiring a refund, then having automated systems pick up and do the basic accounting needed to generate a refund. 
 

These aren’t complicated unsolved problems, either. E-commerce has been done to death, and the entirety of the issue is that NCL doesn’t want to issue refunds and made the system as opaque and inconvenient as possible on purpose as a way to refund as little as possible. 

[mynameisvlad]

2 minutes ago, hallux said:

Not to mention that they also need to match the refund requests to credit card charge-backs to make sure they don't double credit someone.

That’s not how it works. The banks will be the ones responsible for that. They constantly monitor for similar refunds and reverse the chargeback credit when they see it come in. 

[Trousersandrie]

Would you hire a car off NCL, it would take months to settle balance?

[mnsweeps]

Within a day of cancelling my NCL cruise, I also cancelled the following for next 3 months. AND EVERY SINGLE MERCHANT REFUNDED ME WITHIN 5 DAYS.

 

Fiji Airways – Cancelled our 8 days trip in April to Fiji and got refund on my CC in 5 days. It was a international transaction with merchant based in Nadi, Fiji.

 

Hilton – Cancelled all nights in Fiji in 2 different resorts – Full refund within 2 days.

 

All tours and activities in Fiji – cancelled and refunded in 3 days.

 

KLM / Air France airlines – Cancelled my 1week trip to India in May. Refunded in 4 days back to my CC.

 

Hotel Taj Mahal in Mumbai , India - refunded with 3 days to my CC.

 

Air Brussels – Cancelled our flight after our June cruise to Belgium - Fully refunded in 4 days

 

Airbnb - Cancelled our 5 night stay in Brussels after our June cruise- Fully refunded in 4 days

 

SPB Tours (St Petersburg, Russia)  – All money refunded for our 4 city excursions within 3 days.

 

If these merchants and most of them international can refund within 5 days why cannot NCL? This is deliberate and I personally wish none of the 3 get bail out (which seems the case now) and die. A new restructured cruise company would come out of it.

[Murph269]

12 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

Given the small number of people that are active on Cruise Critic that may or may not happen. 

It would be interesting to know what order they plan to use to issue refunds. Is it first come first serve based on when the form was submitted? Is it based on your sail date? Either way, i was set to sail April 12th which was the 1st cancellation date on the 2nd round of cancellations. I also filled out the form within 30 minutes of it up and working properly. I would think I’d be one of the first to see a refund. However, if you read the letter NCL sent out, and take it literally, than I won’t see a refund until 90 days from when the form was submitted. If that’s the case, and a bunch of us see refunds on day 90, that means they had the refunds processed sooner, but hung on until day 90 because they could. If that happens, they’ll never see another dime from me and I will be canceling my future sailing that I have booked in 2021.

[njhorseman]

2 minutes ago, mynameisvlad said:

And in the same vein, all your comments ignore that this is all code written by a person. The system is set up that way because NCL wanted it set up that way. A programmer could have just as easily made refunds the automated action instead of FCCs, or integrated the refund request into the actual refund system to mark the account as requiring a refund, then having automated systems pick up and do the basic accounting needed to generate a refund. 
 

These aren’t complicated unsolved problems, either. E-commerce has been done to death, and the entirety of the issue is that NCL doesn’t want to issue refunds and made the system as opaque and inconvenient as possible on purpose as a way to refund as little as possible. 

Only a madman or an incompetent would set this up to make to make refunds the default option. If you had any knowledge about the cruise lines' balance sheets you would know that doing it that way would put the cruise lines out of business in the blink of an eye. They don't have the cash on hand to do it. Further, from another side of their business perspective they want people booked and ready to cruise when the go ahead is given to resume. Otherwise they'll be sailing with near empty ships for months...another sure road to bankruptcy.

 

On another Cruise Critic board I saw an article from a major business publication that cited a survey by a major bank showing 76% of passengers who were offered the choice of an FCC or cash refund chose the refund. Making FCC the default option is a valid and smart business decision by the cruise lines.

[PATRLR]

10 hours ago, cruiser4801 said:

NCL's 90 day delay to issue refunds is ridiculous.  The payments are all stored electronically and can be refunded swiftly with 10 days at most.  They are doing this for cash flow purposes and that makes us angry.  I for one will never cruise on NCL again if they survive, which I truly doubt they will.  The way NCL has handled the Covid-19 crises and processing of refunds for cruises they had to cancel and did as a result of the pandemic shows what little regard they have for their customers.  

 

I was Platinum level at NCL and am done with them.  Why would anyone ever subject themselves to having NCL hold your money for 3 months after a cruise they canceled.

Goodbye NCL-- you lost our trust..  

 

 

To the OP - Call your credit card company and challenge the charge.  I did just that, got my refund the next day. 

[Murph269]

Just now, PATRLR said:

To the OP - Call your credit card company and challenge the charge.  I did just that, got my refund the next day. 

Careful with this. What you got was a temporary credit while your credit card company investigates. If upon investigation they side with NCL, they’ll pull that credit back out. Don’t assume that you’re home free and spend that money until you hear back from your credit card company that you’ve won the dispute. 

[sparks1093]

23 minutes ago, Murph269 said:

It would be interesting to know what order they plan to use to issue refunds. Is it first come first serve based on when the form was submitted? Is it based on your sail date? Either way, i was set to sail April 12th which was the 1st cancellation date on the 2nd round of cancellations. I also filled out the form within 30 minutes of it up and working properly. I would think I’d be one of the first to see a refund. However, if you read the letter NCL sent out, and take it literally, than I won’t see a refund until 90 days from when the form was submitted. If that’s the case, and a bunch of us see refunds on day 90, that means they had the refunds processed sooner, but hung on until day 90 because they could. If that happens, they’ll never see another dime from me and I will be canceling my future sailing that I have booked in 2021.

Those are good questions indeed.

[PATRLR]

15 minutes ago, Murph269 said:

Careful with this. What you got was a temporary credit while your credit card company investigates. If upon investigation they side with NCL, they’ll pull that credit back out. Don’t assume that you’re home free and spend that money until you hear back from your credit card company that you’ve won the dispute. 

Good advice.  FWIW, I have won the dispute.

[Waquoit]

12 minutes ago, Murph269 said:

Careful with this. What you got was a temporary credit while your credit card company investigates. If upon investigation they side with NCL, they’ll pull that credit back out. Don’t assume that you’re home free and spend that money until you hear back from your credit card company that you’ve won the dispute. 

If this is an apples-to-apples situation, meaning NCL cancelled the cruise and the customer did not do anything besides fill out the online refund form. On what basis can NCL dispute the charge and win?

[tonit964]

10 hours ago, cruiser4801 said:

NCL's 90 day delay to issue refunds is ridiculous.  The payments are all stored electronically and can be refunded swiftly with 10 days at most.  They are doing this for cash flow purposes and that makes us angry.  I for one will never cruise on NCL again if they survive, which I truly doubt they will.  The way NCL has handled the Covid-19 crises and processing of refunds for cruises they had to cancel and did as a result of the pandemic shows what little regard they have for their customers.  

 

I was Platinum level at NCL and am done with them.  Why would anyone ever subject themselves to having NCL hold your money for 3 months after a cruise they canceled.

Goodbye NCL-- you lost our trust..  

 

 

Princess is doing the same thing. They're now saying 90 days before I see my refund. It's unacceptable, especially when I'm sure some that are waiting for refunds have lost their job and may need that money.

[Waquoit]

Just now, PATRLR said:

Good advice.  FWIW, I have won the dispute.

Are we just talking getting a deposit back? Or are we talking about getting an entire refund for a NCL cancelled cruise? May I ask what credit card?

[zqvol]

10 hours ago, cruiser4801 said:

NCL's 90 day delay to issue refunds is ridiculous.  The payments are all stored electronically and can be refunded swiftly with 10 days at most.  They are doing this for cash flow purposes and that makes us angry.  I for one will never cruise on NCL again if they survive, which I truly doubt they will.  The way NCL has handled the Covid-19 crises and processing of refunds for cruises they had to cancel and did as a result of the pandemic shows what little regard they have for their customers.  

 

I was Platinum level at NCL and am done with them.  Why would anyone ever subject themselves to having NCL hold your money for 3 months after a cruise they canceled.

Goodbye NCL-- you lost our trust..  

 

 

 

Let's be clear, the record of the transactions are stored electronically, however, if NCL doesn't have cash in the bank then they can't give you a refund. I doubt that you will see a refund form any major line until at least 60 days after they begin sailing again. If they are forced to seek bankruptcy protection, then passengers will all have to get in line with all of the other unsecured creditors.

 

Your best bet for relief, if it is not too late is to dispute the charge on your CC.

Edited April 14, 2020 by zqvol

[luv2kroooz]

17 minutes ago, Murph269 said:

Careful with this. What you got was a temporary credit while your credit card company investigates. If upon investigation they side with NCL, they’ll pull that credit back out. Don’t assume that you’re home free and spend that money until you hear back from your credit card company that you’ve won the dispute. 

How could NCL possibly win that? They've delayed cancelling the cruise, they've delayed making the refund request form available, and they've delayed the issuance of the refund. They don't stand a chance here. No credit card company is going to remove the temporary credit from a good paying customer and make the customer go out of pocket for the cruise for the privilege of having the same money refunded to them. The chargeback will stand and NCL will not be required to issue the refund to the customer whenever they get around to the customers reservation.

[PATRLR]

3 minutes ago, Waquoit said:

Are we just talking getting a deposit back? Or are we talking about getting an entire refund for a NCL cancelled cruise? May I ask what credit card?

Entire refund for the paid-in-full cruise.  This is a cruise that NCL cancelled.  I simply stated that the cruise was cancelled and I didn't want to wait 90 days for my refund.  I offered to provide documentation of the cancellation but they never requested it.  The credit card is through Chase. 

[Peachypooh]

I had my May cruise cancelled. It was for a milestone anniversary and NCL has $11,000 of my money.

We don't usually spend that much but it was for a 12 day cruise for a special occasion.

I am requesting a cash refund because my husband is over 70 and until they come

up with a definitive statement on the health certificate thing we are taking a wait and see attitude.I agree somewhat with

PATRLR in that the world has changed. Instead of the cruise we were looking forward to, I will be buying groceries

and household items for the time I was to be away. In addition at the present time I am buying food

for family members who are cash strapped which I normally would not have done and shipping it to them

(as we are not allowed to visit so my post office costs are very very high). So yes the world has changed and

I can see that some  people have need of their refunds NOW. Everyone's situation is different. FWIW I have a 

friend who did save for a rainy day but her emergency fund is depleted due to a family member developing

cancer and also a family member having their hours cut drastically. So yes, people should plan ahead

but sometimes life happens and even if you do plan ahead you are caught short of money.

[Murph269]

Just now, blcruising said:

How could NCL possibly win that? They've delayed cancelling the cruise, they've delayed making the refund request form available, and they've delayed the issuance of the refund. They don't stand a chance here. No credit card company is going to remove the temporary credit from a good paying customer and make the customer go out of pocket for the cruise for the privilege of having the same money refunded to them. The chargeback will stand and NCL will not be required to issue the refund to the customer whenever they get around to the customers reservation.

I didn’t suggest that NCL would win. All I was saying is that typically if you file a dispute and have funds credited back to you the next day, it’s usually a temporary credit that is subject to being taken back upon investigation.  For the record, I agree with you in that NCL doesn’t have much footing to stand on to fight this. 

[PATRLR]

2 minutes ago, blcruising said:

How could NCL possibly win that? They've delayed cancelling the cruise, they've delayed making the refund request form available, and they've delayed the issuance of the refund. They don't stand a chance here. No credit card company is going to remove the temporary credit from a good paying customer and make the customer go out of pocket for the cruise for the privilege of having the same money refunded to them. The chargeback will stand and NCL will not be required to issue the refund to the customer whenever they get around to the customers reservation.

I agree.  And that is what appears to have happened.  

By the way, I didn't think of this all by myself.  There is plenty of other posts on these boards of people doing the exact same thing with success.  In full disclosure, I've heard of some who have failed too, but, I think I've heard way more success than failure.

 

[ColeThornton]

1 minute ago, Murph269 said:

I didn’t suggest that NCL would win. All I was saying is that typically if you file a dispute and have funds credited back to you the next day, it’s usually a temporary credit that is subject to being taken back upon investigation.  For the record, I agree with you in that NCL doesn’t have much footing to stand on to fight this. 

 

I got what you were saying, it was pretty obvious and good advice.

 

[Waquoit]

7 minutes ago, PATRLR said:

Entire refund for the paid-in-full cruise.  This is a cruise that NCL cancelled.  I simply stated that the cruise was cancelled and I didn't want to wait 90 days for my refund.  I offered to provide documentation of the cancellation but they never requested it.  The credit card is through Chase. 

Thank you very much! This is the first real case of this being tried that I recall on this board and I was wondering what the response of the credit company would be.