This too, Shall Pass

[Paulchili]

2 minutes ago, Paulchili said:

Edit: this update of the study I cited raises the number of companies not paying income taxes in 2018 to 91

..and the rest of the 500 (409), while they do pay taxes, I am willing to bet they do not pay their fair share - unlike you and I do.

[njhorseman]

26 minutes ago, Paulchili said:

To say that this is outrageous is a gross understatement.

I am sure there is a number of prominent individuals that could be added to that list.

That is a major reason why the Scandinavian countries (socialist capitalism) can offer all those benefits to their citizens and we cannot - everyone pays their fair share..

 

21 minutes ago, Paulchili said:

..and the rest of the 500 (409), while they do pay taxes, I am willing to bet they do not pay their fair share - unlike you and I do.

Yes, but the problem lies in our tax code. While you and I pay our fair share, I know I take advantage of every tax deduction and credit the tax code permits and I'm sure you do the same. If we don't pay one dime more than we have to, we can't turn around and point a finger at corporations for doing the same. The problem lies with our lawmakers who are so beholden to corporate interests that they make individual taxpayers pay an unfairly high tax burden relative to corporations.

[pinotlover]

This has turned a bit political, imo.

 

We talk about quality and taste of food and wine as being highly subjective. Not nearly as much so as defining “fair “. Now that’s subjective!

 

If the US paid the same percentage of its GDP on defense as Sweden, Norway, or Finland does we’d have a lot more money to do other things with. If we did/had, those countries would be part of Russia today. Perhaps it’s not “ fair” that they get away with paying so little! 

 

 

[Hawaiidan]

33 minutes ago, pinotlover said:

This has turned a bit political, imo.

 

We talk about quality and taste of food and wine as being highly subjective. Not nearly as much so as defining “fair “. Now that’s subjective!

 

If the US paid the same percentage of its GDP on defense as Sweden, Norway, or Finland does we’d have a lot more money to do other things with. If we did/had, those countries would be part of Russia today. Perhaps it’s not “ fair” that they get away with paying so little! 

 

 

Amen...   Love to pay 50-60% income tax  in Sweden along with suoer high cost of living... sign me up

Edited April 29, 2020 by Hawaiidan

[StanandJim]

1 hour ago, njhorseman said:

The problem lies with our lawmakers who are so beholden to corporate interests that they make individual taxpayers pay an unfairly high tax burden relative to corporations.

Lawmakers become beholden trying to raise enough money to buy access to radio and television advertising, ergo it might be a very good idea to require Broadcasters to air political messages gratis in order to hold a FCC license.

 

[Paulchili]

3 hours ago, njhorseman said:

The problem lies with our lawmakers who are so beholden to corporate interests that they make individual taxpayers pay an unfairly high tax burden relative to corporations.

That goes without saying - otherwise the jails would be full of corporate tax cheaters.

I said it was outrageous - not illegal.

[Paulchili]

3 hours ago, pinotlover said:

If the US paid the same percentage of its GDP on defense as Sweden, Norway, or Finland does.....Perhaps it’s not “ fair” that they get away with paying so little! 

AFAIK neither Finland nor Sweden are part of NATO and Norway spends a very respectable 1.7% of its' required 2% of GDP.

[Paulchili]

3 hours ago, Hawaiidan said:

Amen...   Love to pay 50-60% income tax  in Sweden along with suoer high cost of living... sign me up

You know - it's a little bit like you get what you pay for.

You pay a lot more at Four Seasons but you get a lot more for it. You pay very little at Motel 6 and you know very well what you'll get. If you had a choice, where would you rather stay?

I believe you have made those types of comparisons between cruise lines as well.

I think that's fair.

Somehow I thinks that the Scandinavians don't go hungry or homeless despite their high taxes - have a much higher standard of living than we do and even seem very happy.

PS I believe that if Bezos (and others like him) paid 70% taxes, they would still have enough to scrape by - just barely 😀

 

Edited April 30, 2020 by Paulchili

[Paulchili]

40 minutes ago, Paulchili said:

Love to pay 50-60% income tax  in Sweden along with suoer high cost of living..

PS

I have visited all of the Scandinavian countries many, many times and was impressed each time not only with the natural beauty but also the kindness and friendliness of the people and how neat and clean these places were and how well everything was run.

Yes, everything is very expensive there but surely the local people can afford to buy all these "expensive" things as otherwise everyone would go out of business.

Everything is relative.

[clo]

20 hours ago, PirateShark said:

 

Banks charge interest based on the risk characteristics  of the borrower.  So I guess what is 'unreasonable' at this point considering the risk of repayment with today's facts.  Capital markets have priced the risk and found a sucker to guarantee in Uncle Sam.  The Fed decided to commit our tax dollars to backstop a company that doesn't pay US taxes.  Only you can decide if that is an acceptable practice.

 

Which infuriates me. Maybe give Puerto Rico a helping hand.

[clo]

1 hour ago, Paulchili said:

PS I believe that if Bezos (and others like him) paid 70% taxes, they would still have enough to scrape by - just barely 😀

 

Then work to change the tax code. 'Course without drastic campaign finance reform, which we and our adults kids won't see in our lifetimes, it's never going to happen. My goal of being Czarina of the Universe is likely not going to pan out.

[CintiPam]

36 minutes ago, clo said:

Then work to change the tax code. 'Course without drastic campaign finance reform, which we and our adults kids won't see in our lifetimes, it's never going to happen. My goal of being Czarina of the Universe is likely not going to pan out.

Citizens United v FEC in 2010 took that possibility away. 

[clo]

Just now, CintiPam said:

Citizens United v FEC in 2010 took that possibility away. 

Oh I know. I really do know. The corruption is here and likely here to stay. And I hate it with every bone in my liberal body 🙂

[Mura]

I have several Danish and Norwegian friends who are all happy with their system of government ... and sometimes wonder about ours.

 

I also have Norwegian relatives but we long ago last contact with that part of the family ..

Mura.

 

 

[pinotlover]

Unlike some here, I’m not a Teatotaller. Therefore, I find the alcohol taxes in countries like Norway outrageous. $10-$12 for a beer! Their wine , in restaurants suck, with alcohol  levels at 4%, because of taxes. Beautiful country, their taxes suck!

 

Guess Norway is like the Terrace, a good place for Teatotallers. 

Edited April 30, 2020 by pinotlover

[Paulchili]

32 minutes ago, pinotlover said:

Unlike some here, I’m not a Teatotaller. Therefore, I find the alcohol taxes in countries like Norway outrageous. $10-$12 for a beer! Their wine , in restaurants suck, with alcohol  levels at 4%, because of taxes. Beautiful country, their taxes suck!

 

Guess Norway is like the Terrace, a good place for Teatotallers. 

You know how they say “there is an app for that”.

Well, there are stats for everything - take a look at these.

See where USA ranks and where any Scandinavian country is (didn’t make this “honor roll”).

I’ll rather pay more for alcohol (if I drank it) as an exchange for not being killed by a drunk driver.

It’s not just the price of alcohol in Scandinavia that is responsible for this, it’s how strictly they enforce these laws

It used to be a very different picture years ago with lack of sunlight for many months in the winter when people had little other things to do than drink. They put an end to that.

Edited April 30, 2020 by Paulchili

[LHT28]

11 minutes ago, Paulchili said:

You know how they say “there is an app for that”.

Well, there are stats for everything - take a look at these.

 

OMG   Canada is ahead of the USA   that is not a good thing in this case

[pinotlover]

Lyn;

 

Notice the correlation between population density and DUI deaths on that graph. Here’s a bet. Wyoming has a higher DUI rate per 100,000 than NYC. I likewise bet rates are higher in Alberta than in Toronto.

 

KY has long had a majority of Counties that are “ dry”. No legal alcohol sales, especially not even restaurants. Back in the 80s, a graph showed more total alcohol related deaths, statewide, in the dry counties than in the wet ones. Anytime or place, you force people on to the highways, deaths go up.

 

Paul is correct on one point. If you tax something enough, you either diminish sales, promote illegal sales and distribution, or both.

[clo]

12 hours ago, pinotlover said:

Unlike some here, I’m not a Teatotaller. Therefore, I find the alcohol taxes in countries like Norway outrageous. $10-$12 for a beer! Their wine , in restaurants suck, with alcohol  levels at 4%, because of taxes. Beautiful country, their taxes suck!

 

Guess Norway is like the Terrace, a good place for Teatotallers. 

When we did our Norwegian coastal cruise last year the wine prices on the ship were outrageous. A ho-hum (to me for whatever that means as I'm no connoisseur) bottle on the ship could easily be US$75. There was an older English couple who had wine with lunch and dinner but they were still appalled. I'll confess we did a little bootlegging.

[sunlover12]

One of the most expensive lunches I've ever had was in Copenhagen.  One sandwich and one soda, which we shared, was 25 USD.  We enjoy a bottle of wine with our dinners but didn't when we were in Scandinavia.  Their taxes are sky-high. 

[ORV]

7 minutes ago, clo said:

When we did our Norwegian coastal cruise last year the wine prices on the ship were outrageous. A ho-hum (to me for whatever that means as I'm no connoisseur) bottle on the ship could easily be US$75. There was an older English couple who had wine with lunch and dinner but they were still appalled. I'll confess we did a little bootlegging.

Was this Oceania? That is where the value of the drink package comes in. I don't think they raised the prices just because of where they were at. On the other hand some areas have a VAT added to the drink cost. Wine by the bottle always has a ridiculous markup on it on a cruise ship. I doubt that has anything to do with Norway. 

[clo]

5 minutes ago, ORV said:

Was this Oceania? That is where the value of the drink package comes in. I don't think they raised the prices just because of where they were at. On the other hand some areas have a VAT added to the drink cost. Wine by the bottle always has a ridiculous markup on it on a cruise ship. I doubt that has anything to do with Norway. 

No Hurtigruten and I honestly don't remember if they had packages.

[clo]

11 minutes ago, sunlover12 said:

One of the most expensive lunches I've ever had was in Copenhagen.  One sandwich and one soda, which we shared, was 25 USD.  We enjoy a bottle of wine with our dinners but didn't when we were in Scandinavia.  Their taxes are sky-high. 

Copenhagen has become one of the top food destinations in the world. Check out Noma:

https://noma.dk/food-and-wine/

[clo]

17 minutes ago, ORV said:

Was this Oceania? That is where the value of the drink package comes in. I don't think they raised the prices just because of where they were at. On the other hand some areas have a VAT added to the drink cost. Wine by the bottle always has a ridiculous markup on it on a cruise ship. I doubt that has anything to do with Norway. 

I also remember that on our S. American cruise on Oceania that they warned us that as long as we were in Brazilian water there was a 25% VAT on alcohol on the ship and off.

[StanandJim]

21 hours ago, clo said:

I also remember that on our S. American cruise on Oceania that they warned us that as long as we were in Brazilian water there was a 25% VAT on alcohol on the ship and off.

Yes, but that is the beauty of buying the PACKAGE when sailing in VAT territory.

After a  Package is purchased there are no further monetary transactions. 

Ergo no VAT at the point of consumption.

The trick is in the pre-paying.