Repatriate Crew

[chengkp75]

29 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

It is legally very dicey because to my knowledge though I am not american, A U.S Citizen CANNOT be denied entry to the country even if on the no fly list. If they can reach the USA by any means they can enter. They can walk into the country, they can drive up to the border in car, they can row over on a boat.  They might get arrested and charged with Treason if they joined ISIS or whatever but they CANNOT be refused unless the citizenship is revoked by the government. Carnival will get sued big time here. CDC as well maybe.

This is not quite correct.  If the US citizen has reached US territory (i.e. is standing on US soil), they may not be denied entry, but CDC has the right to require quarantine at a location chosen by the CDC.  However, when a US citizen is not on US soil, as is the case on a cruise ship, then the person can be denied entry into the US.  Until the ship has been cleared by USCG, CBP, and CDC, and granted "pratique", then no one, regardless of citizenship, is allowed to leave the vessel and enter US soil.  This is the basis of "quarantine" and has been the law of the US since its inception.  The crew member may have a case against Carnival for not presenting sufficient documentation to obtain "pratique", but that would be a serious gray area, and there would be no case what so ever against the CDC.

[ace2542]

28 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

This is not quite correct.  If the US citizen has reached US territory (i.e. is standing on US soil), they may not be denied entry, but CDC has the right to require quarantine at a location chosen by the CDC.  However, when a US citizen is not on US soil, as is the case on a cruise ship, then the person can be denied entry into the US.  Until the ship has been cleared by USCG, CBP, and CDC, and granted "pratique", then no one, regardless of citizenship, is allowed to leave the vessel and enter US soil.  This is the basis of "quarantine" and has been the law of the US since its inception.  The crew member may have a case against Carnival for not presenting sufficient documentation to obtain "pratique", but that would be a serious gray area, and there would be no case what so ever against the CDC.

So the CDC could leave those Americans on that ship for the rest of their lives?

[chengkp75]

31 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

So the CDC could leave those Americans on that ship for the rest of their lives?

If there is a reason to deny entry into the US, then yes.

[Outerdog]

 

All the folks in a hurry to be the first ones back on the ships should be taking a good, hard look at these kinds of stories. And pay close attention to bits like this:

 

 

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

2 hours ago, ace2542 said:

So the CDC could leave those Americans on that ship for the rest of their lives?

 

If there is a reason to deny entry into the US, then yes.

 

[npcl]

2 hours ago, ace2542 said:

So the CDC could leave those Americans on that ship for the rest of their lives?

As long as the companies that runs the ships they are on are not willing to comply with required guidelines for off loading passengers, then yes.

 

Why is it that I feel either 1. The cruise lines feel that they have more clout than it seems like they do and the CDC will cave with the requirements (maybe a back channel due to CCL being a sponsor for the Apprentice. or 2, There is something that they really do not want to be made public and it would be if they met the CDC requirements.  

 

This seems to be going beyond the normal cost or the executives signing the certification.

 

Is it possible that the Congress has opened an investigation of CCL to keep the WH from pressuring CDC into relaxing its rules?

 

 

 

 

Edited May 3, 2020 by npcl

[npcl]

The really funny thing is that if the cruise lines are sending a large number of crew, enough to fill a long haul jet. With the planes setting idle, the lack of demand for both crew and planes, very low jet fuel prices, a cruise line could probably charter the flight for less per person than a standard airline ticket would cost.  As long as the country on the other end would receive the plane the cost should not be excessive.

 

That is what makes this issue interesting from there must be more to this than just a cost issue.

[bluesea321]

According to the Miami Herald, RCL has agreed to sign the CDC attestation form for disembarking crew members.  Let's hope that this is a precedent and that CCL follows.  The crews need to get home, particularly since many are not being paid.

[caribill]

9 hours ago, bluesea321 said:

According to the Miami Herald, RCL has agreed to sign the CDC attestation form for disembarking crew members.  Let's hope that this is a precedent and that CCL follows.  The crews need to get home, particularly since many are not being paid.

 

What makes you say that?

[Roberto256]

3 hours ago, caribill said:

 

What makes you say that?

 

That is my understanding as well.  If your contract ends, your pay ends, even if you can't disembark and go home.

 

I know one person who is still in this situation.

 

Their pay ended.   Then, a while later, Princess extended their contract.

 

I don't know if ILA intervened, or why Princess would change.

 

 

[Loreni]

Does CCL have a private jet for their executives?  If yes, why not use this to get the crew home.

[Roberto256]

26 minutes ago, Loreni said:

Does CCL have a private jet for their executives?  If yes, why not use this to get the crew home.

 

Regal and Sky were both used to take crew from Bahamas to europe, as one ship wasn't big enough.

 

I think that's way too many people for a biz jet.

 

BTW, Regal is alongside in Southhampton now.

 

This is probably the only time a ship has arrived in Southhampton without a

big line at the pursers desk on the last night...

 

 

[AF-1]

Private Jets used by cruise lines seat 14 Passengers;  way too small for crew member transfer.  Here is a video telling what ships are going where and which ones are being used to transfer crew.

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by AF-1

[chengkp75]

4 hours ago, Roberto256 said:

 

That is my understanding as well.  If your contract ends, your pay ends, even if you can't disembark and go home.

 

I know one person who is still in this situation.

 

Their pay ended.   Then, a while later, Princess extended their contract.

 

I don't know if ILA intervened, or why Princess would change.

 

 

There are clauses in the MLC 2006 convention that cover delayed repatriation, and while the crew may not be receiving their full normal pay, since they are not working 12-14 hours/day, they will at least receive the minimum base wage for all seafarers.

[npcl]

2 hours ago, AF-1 said:

Private Jets used by cruise lines seat 14 Passengers;  way too small for crew member transfer.  Here is a video telling what ships are going where and which ones are being used to transfer crew.

 

It would handle the cases like the 8 crew that are US citizens that was on a ship near San Diego.

[npcl]

5 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

There are clauses in the MLC 2006 convention that cover delayed repatriation, and while the crew may not be receiving their full normal pay, since they are not working 12-14 hours/day, they will at least receive the minimum base wage for all seafarers.

What about hotel staff would they also be covered?

[beg3yrs]

47 minutes ago, npcl said:

What about hotel staff would they also be covered?

IIRC, in a previous post chengkp75 noted that any member of the ship's company who has emergency duties is legally a crew member and is covered under maritime law. In my experience I've seen many of the hotel staff participate in the muster drill which is an emergency duty. Thus, I believe they would be covered.

 

Waiting for a grade from chengkp75 to see if I've been a good student! 👨‍🎓

[chengkp75]

16 minutes ago, beg3yrs said:

IIRC, in a previous post chengkp75 noted that any member of the ship's company who has emergency duties is legally a crew member and is covered under maritime law. In my experience I've seen many of the hotel staff participate in the muster drill which is an emergency duty. Thus, I believe they would be covered.

 

Waiting for a grade from chengkp75 to see if I've been a good student! 👨‍🎓

B-.  While that is the USCG definition for US crew, the international definition of crew is anyone who is on the company's payroll, and who is intrinsic to the ship's basic function, so that includes almost all the crew.  Guest entertainers, service technicians, and corporate home office types are considered to be passengers.  Anyone who has signed "ship's articles", which is the employment agreement between the Captain and the crew member, and which is the cruise ship crew's "contract", is considered to be a seafarer, and covered under the MLC.

[pris993]

Fake or not, as a customer this is non of my business... cruise lines are as much a victim of the China virus as anyone... they have to work this out as best they can.   I for one will not make judgment about things I know nothing about.    

[Roberto256]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

There are clauses in the MLC 2006 convention that cover delayed repatriation, and while the crew may not be receiving their full normal pay, since they are not working 12-14 hours/day, they will at least receive the minimum base wage for all seafarers.

 

That's good news!

 

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by Roberto256

[Roberto256]

24 minutes ago, pris993 said:

  I for one will not make judgment about things I know nothing about.    

 

You are certainly in the minority here!

[bluesea321]

20 hours ago, bluesea321 said:

According to the Miami Herald, RCL has agreed to sign the CDC attestation form for disembarking crew members.  Let's hope that this is a precedent and that CCL follows.  The crews need to get home, particularly since many are not being paid.

 

10 hours ago, caribill said:

What makes you say that?

 

There are many sources.  Here are a couple of them:

 

"And some whose contracts have expired as they wait to go home aren’t being paid."

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article241500941.html

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/msc-cruises-crew-members-stuck-onboard-ships-salary-repatriation-2020-4

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/cruise-ships-crews-stuck-at-sea-paydays-dwindling-and-searching-for-a-way-home/2020/04/14/c7d9c498-78fb-11ea-a130-df573469f094_story.html

 

 

[chengkp75]

10 minutes ago, bluesea321 said:

 

 

There are many sources.  Here are a couple of them:

 

"And some whose contracts have expired as they wait to go home aren’t being paid."

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article241500941.html

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/msc-cruises-crew-members-stuck-onboard-ships-salary-repatriation-2020-4

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/cruise-ships-crews-stuck-at-sea-paydays-dwindling-and-searching-for-a-way-home/2020/04/14/c7d9c498-78fb-11ea-a130-df573469f094_story.html

 

 

And, you'll note that MSC even admitted in their letters to crew, that they wanted the crew to "waive their legal right to wages", which is a tacit acknowledgement that all the cruise lines will be responsible for at least the statutory minimum wage for seafarers, even those not working but on the ship, from the time their contract ended until the time they are repatriated.  This is one time where that maritime ambulance chaser Walker can do right, and get a class action against the cruise lines for the wages of the crew.

[pris993]

35 minutes ago, Roberto256 said:

 

You are certainly in the minority here!

Very true... I find it amazing that so many have so much to say.   

[bluesea321]

18 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

And, you'll note that MSC even admitted in their letters to crew, that they wanted the crew to "waive their legal right to wages"...

 

Yes, I read that on the link prior to posting it.

[bookmama22]

There was a segment about the crews that are still on cruise ships on the Today show including a Skype interview with the singer profiled in the Miami Herald article. Hopefully that will spur some action.