No Excuse for NOT Processing Refunds!!!!

[Loracpin2]

Based on the article below, there is NO EXCUSE for Carnival's NOT processing refunds ASAP!!!!

 

https://nypost.com/2020/05/09/carnival-swamped-with-bookings-after-announcing-august-return/

[jimbo5544]

Just now, Loracpin2 said:

Based on the article below, there is NO EXCUSE for Carnival's NOT processing refunds ASAP!!!!

 

https://nypost.com/2020/05/09/carnival-swamped-with-bookings-after-announcing-august-return/

where to begin....let's start with the Post, the bastion of facts.  What does bookings have to do with refunds?  There was never an issue about them having funds to give back, simply the time it takes to process.  Lastly they never offered up any excuses, just told them what to expect in terms of timing.

[SRQbeachgirl]

People do realize that the staff they have taking bookings and the staff processing refunds are not the same people, right? Not even the same department. I work for a large organization and some of the departments, including mine, frequently take payments for services. But my department cannot process refunds - our finance department has to do that. Same situation with Carnival.

 

In addition, Carnival's offices in Miami were shut down, which means they had to get their staff equipped to work remotely. It was pretty easy for my department to start working remotely because most of us already had laptops and were set up with software and VPN to telework. But it took our finance department several weeks to to equip their staff in order to enable all functions to happen remotely. I was waiting on a reimbursement for some expenses and it took over a month to process, when it normally only takes a couple of days.

 

Carnival's delay in issuing refunds was never about holding onto money. It is due to volume, logistics, and staff resources. 

Edited May 10, 2020 by SRQbeachgirl

[Roger88]

If the cruise has been canceled due to their management decision, there shouldn't be an excuse not to refund you. Moreover, it will be illegal to deny you your right for a refund. If it was you who cancelled the cruise due to some of your personal forecasts.. well, you may gt only partial or no refund in this case 

[BlerkOne]

9 minutes ago, Roger88 said:

If the cruise has been canceled due to their management decision, there shouldn't be an excuse not to refund you. Moreover, it will be illegal to deny you your right for a refund. If it was you who cancelled the cruise due to some of your personal forecasts.. well, you may gt only partial or no refund in this case 

 

Nobody has been denied a refund for a cancelled cruise.

[Purvis1231]

One would think in the 21st century there would be an automated process for handling refunds but based on what the Carnival officials are saying every refund has to be processed by a person. I did chose the FCC credit for my cruise and have already rebooked with my PVP so that is settled but I am waiting for refunds on two excursion and two cases of water. Thankfully, it is not a lot of money for me but it seems like when the cruise was cancelled, these should have been automatically refunded.  

[BlerkOne]

5 minutes ago, Purvis1231 said:

One would think in the 21st century there would be an automated process for handling refunds but based on what the Carnival officials are saying every refund has to be processed by a person. I did chose the FCC credit for my cruise and have already rebooked with my PVP so that is settled but I am waiting for refunds on two excursion and two cases of water. Thankfully, it is not a lot of money for me but it seems like when the cruise was cancelled, these should have been automatically refunded.  

 

One would think that in this computer age, everyone due a stimulus check would have received one by now, but that isn't the case. The government can print all the money they want, so it can't be due to lack of funding. But thanks to computers, a number of dead people have received checks while live ones still wait.

 

People move, close credit card accounts, pay with multiple credit cards, have incorrect contact info, etc. I imagine there are many more reason the process can be slowed for everyone. And don't forget the line jumpers that dispute charges further gumming up the works.

[Moviela]

53 minutes ago, Loracpin2 said:

 

She has been patiently waiting for her $6000 refund for 8 weeks and and doesn't see an end in sight.

 

Would you rather a computer send it? It could be sent to a person with the same name. It could be sent to a bank that does not know how to credit it because of a difference in account number or spelling of a name and address. It could be refunded to an account that is closed. A computer might do nothing because of an incomplete record of payment, a pax listed as TBD, or payments from multiple sources, ie credit cards, debit cards, gift cards, casino subsidy, credit from earlier transactions, even port fees and taxes paid that have not been refunded.

 

Your patience may be wearing thin, but refunds need a live person to properly process them. Any company has a huge sales staff when compared to the refund department. All cruise lines have a refund department sized to handle the normal flow of refunds, but this is unprecedented. 

 

The delay in receiving refunds is not caused by some sinister plot to hold on to your money, or that the cash is not available, it is just the necessity to follow the protocols of generally accepted accounting practices. 

 

There is only one cruise line that is better funded than Carnival, so rest assured your daughter will receive her refund. 

 

Ask her to join Cruise Critic, (it's free) and let us know about mid-June that she received her refund.

[Cruising_Addict]

You are comparing apples to oranges. I can go online and book a cruise right now, and not one single Carnival employee is involved in the process. For a refund, however, it takes an actual human being to process it. And they are dealing with having to issue more refunds than they ever imagined they would. On top of the fact that their HQ offices are closed. Give them a break. Refunds are being processed and everyone will get theirs eventually. 

Edited May 10, 2020 by Cruising_Addict

[Purvis1231]

4 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

 

There is opinion and there is reality. People who can afford to cruise in the first place are not the most destitute. I am astonished at those complaining about first world problems. What if the cruise had not been cancelled?

 

During this trying time, how many cruises did you have booked on other cruise lines and how many have been refunded?

For the most part you are correct. I pray that most people who booked cruises still have an income and are not desperate for a Carnival refund. I am afraid there are some who had a good income last year when they booked the cruise and today have no job or no business. These are the worried ones. If they are waiting for a few thousand dollars from Carnival I could see how the are upset. Again thankfully I am only waiting for a few hundred. 

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, Purvis1231 said:

For the most part you are correct. I pray that most people who booked cruises still have an income and are not desperate for a Carnival refund. I am afraid there are some who had a good income last year when they booked the cruise and today have no job or no business. These are the worried ones. If they are waiting for a few thousand dollars from Carnival I could see how the are upset. Again thankfully I am only waiting for a few hundred. 

 

No doubt there are some who are really hurting and it would be good if Carnival could prioritize their refunds (perhaps they are trying), but with many others who think they are more important, the me me me people, it may be impossible.

 

I can't help but think about the over 80,000 Americans who might love to be alive to worry about such things.

 

 

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

7 hours ago, Purvis1231 said:

One would think in the 21st century there would be an automated process for handling refunds but based on what the Carnival officials are saying every refund has to be processed by a person. I did chose the FCC credit for my cruise and have already rebooked with my PVP so that is settled but I am waiting for refunds on two excursion and two cases of water. Thankfully, it is not a lot of money for me but it seems like when the cruise was cancelled, these should have been automatically refunded.  

The CCL defense is a joke. Not enough staff, not enough time, dog ate the homework ... 🤥

 

Yet there is ALWAYS sufficient personnel and bandwidth to process new bookings. Anyone been told "We apologize for the delay, but processing your deposit could take up to 90 days"?

 

In a time when people complain how no one takes personal accountability, isn't it remarkable how some here would try to excuse a multi-billion-dollar foreign corporation for keeping somebody else's money for up to three months? Let's see Carnival, HAL and Princess start taking some responsibility.

 

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

4 hours ago, Purvis1231 said:

For the most part you are correct. I pray that most people who booked cruises still have an income and are not desperate for a Carnival refund. I am afraid there are some who had a good income last year when they booked the cruise and today have no job or no business. These are the worried ones. If they are waiting for a few thousand dollars from Carnival I could see how the are upset. Again thankfully I am only waiting for a few hundred. 

Yes, with the crushing unemployment rate - and furloughs/pay cuts for others - you could see how a lot of customers would need their money back now.

 

Important phrase: "Their money." Emphasis on the word "their."

 

A deposit was never Carnival's money - never. It always belonged to the customer. Now CCL forcibly converts it into an interest-free, three-month loan. (During what's shaping up as the next Depression, when many of this multi-billion-dollar foreign corporation's customers are suddenly put into desperate circumstances).

 

What's astounding is that a few posters here defend this. Pro tip: pay attention to their names, and remember them. What they write during this crisis speaks a lot about their credibility now - and in the future.

 

[sparks1093]

5 hours ago, EscapeFromConnecticut said:

The CCL defense is a joke. Not enough staff, not enough time, dog ate the homework ... 🤥

 

Yet there is ALWAYS sufficient personnel and bandwidth to process new bookings. Anyone been told "We apologize for the delay, but processing your deposit could take up to 90 days"?

 

In a time when people complain how no one takes personal accountability, isn't it remarkable how some here would try to excuse a multi-billion-dollar foreign corporation for keeping somebody else's money for up to three months? Let's see Carnival, HAL and Princess start taking some responsibility.

 

Don't forget NCL and Royal and all of the others.

[sparks1093]

4 hours ago, EscapeFromConnecticut said:

Yes, with the crushing unemployment rate - and furloughs/pay cuts for others - you could see how a lot of customers would need their money back now.

 

Important phrase: "Their money." Emphasis on the word "their."

 

A deposit was never Carnival's money - never. It always belonged to the customer. Now CCL forcibly converts it into an interest-free, three-month loan. (During what's shaping up as the next Depression, when many of this multi-billion-dollar foreign corporation's customers are suddenly put into desperate circumstances).

 

What's astounding is that a few posters here defend this. Pro tip: pay attention to their names, and remember them. What they write during this crisis speaks a lot about their credibility now - and in the future.

 

Refunds are being processed so it's not 90 days for everyone, it is up to 90 days. I am not defending the cruise line(s) per se, I am recognizing the reality that it is going to take time to process over a million refunds. Yes, I'd love to have my money back right this instant, but I realize that I have to wait my turn. It isn't the most pleasant position to be in but it also isn't the end of the world (and yes, I fully recognize that for some the need is more dire, but how do those folks get identified?). I can choose to get upset and chew my beard and fuss and fret until my refund is processed or I can live my life and let the refund happen when it happens because nothing I can do is going chance when that happens. A line from a recently watched movie comes to mind- "someone that worries about something happening suffers twice". 

[CdrescherRBL152]

17 hours ago, Roger88 said:

If the cruise has been canceled due to their management decision, there shouldn't be an excuse not to refund you. Moreover, it will be illegal to deny you your right for a refund. If it was you who cancelled the cruise due to some of your personal forecasts.. well, you may gt only partial or no refund in this case 

Here lies the problem. Carnival is refunding everyone money who request it.  But as has become the norm with the me generation. People think they can call say refund me my money. And everything should get dropped and they should be able to instantly go online and see that the refund has been processed. They can not accept the fact that their PVP can not process a refund. He/she puts in the request. It goes to another department. Where who knows how many thousands of refunds are being processed right now. And given that refunds normally are a lot fewer then bookings. I am willing to bet there is not a whole lot of people who can process them. So it is going to take time. And given the current conditions around the world. A friend of mine who is a lawyer said there could be an argument made. That disputing a purchase that the vendor is in the process of refunding is in itself credit card fraud. 

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

4 minutes ago, CdrescherRBL152 said:

Here lies the problem. Carnival is refunding everyone money who request it.  But as has become the norm with the me generation. People think they can call say refund me my money. And everything should get dropped and they should be able to instantly go online and see that the refund has been processed. They can not accept the fact that their PVP can not process a refund. He/she puts in the request. It goes to another department. Where who knows how many thousands of refunds are being processed right now. And given that refunds normally are a lot fewer then bookings. I am willing to bet there is not a whole lot of people who can process them. So it is going to take time. And given the current conditions around the world. A friend of mine who is a lawyer said there could be an argument made. That disputing a purchase that the vendor is in the process of refunding is in itself credit card fraud. 

 

Your friend raises an interesting point, but not as it appears.  
 

Carnival, Princess and HAL were peddling cruises that were scheduled for days when the CDC No Sail Order was still in effect. They had no realistic hope of sailing in that time, and posters on CC have been saying as much since early March. Now they cancel and look for 90 days of interest-free loan from their customers.
 

So yes, it is worth an AG, Congress or a class-action to start an investigation .... because just maybe your phrase "fraud" is very much in play here.  

 

 

[jimbo5544]

10 minutes ago, EscapeFromConnecticut said:

 

Your friend raises an interesting point, but not as it appears.  
 

Carnival, Princess and HAL were peddling cruises that were scheduled for days when the CDC No Sail Order was still in effect. They had no realistic hope of sailing in that time, and posters on CC have been saying as much since early March. Now they cancel and look for 90 days of interest-free loan from their customers.
 

So yes, it is worth an AG, Congress or a class-action to start an investigation .... because just maybe your phrase "fraud" is very much in play here.  

 

 

Document...  show us

[chasinraynbowz]

Carnival owes me money also.  We rescheduled our May cruise that was cancelled, but had paid for shore excursions, so that's the money we are waiting on.

 

I was also booked on a European NCL cruise with airfare from AA.  I was told and received my refund from NCL within 20 days of requesting it.  American Airlines took about the same time, but I had to ask twice (they tried telling me my flights were non refundable when they in fact cancelled them) but I still got that back in approx. 20 days also. 

 

Not sure why it's taking 90 days for Carnival.

 

 

[jimbo5544]

18 minutes ago, chasinraynbowz said:

Carnival owes me money also.  We rescheduled our May cruise that was cancelled, but had paid for shore excursions, so that's the money we are waiting on.

 

I was also booked on a European NCL cruise with airfare from AA.  I was told and received my refund from NCL within 20 days of requesting it.  American Airlines took about the same time, but I had to ask twice (they tried telling me my flights were non refundable when they in fact cancelled them) but I still got that back in approx. 20 days also. 

 

Not sure why it's taking 90 days for Carnival.

 

 

Do you want the answer?

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

12 hours ago, chasinraynbowz said:

Carnival owes me money also.  We rescheduled our May cruise that was cancelled, but had paid for shore excursions, so that's the money we are waiting on.

 

I was also booked on a European NCL cruise with airfare from AA.  I was told and received my refund from NCL within 20 days of requesting it.  American Airlines took about the same time, but I had to ask twice (they tried telling me my flights were non refundable when they in fact cancelled them) but I still got that back in approx. 20 days also. 

 

Not sure why it's taking 90 days for Carnival.

 

 

chasinraynbowz - yes, and my auto insurer has already sent me a refund ... after the company initiated it. 
  We all know that when a multi-billion-dollar corporation wants to get something done quickly, it can. Alternately, when it prefers to drag its feet ... it does that instead. CCL is no victim here.

[BlerkOne]

12 hours ago, chasinraynbowz said:

Carnival owes me money also.  We rescheduled our May cruise that was cancelled, but had paid for shore excursions, so that's the money we are waiting on.

 

I was also booked on a European NCL cruise with airfare from AA.  I was told and received my refund from NCL within 20 days of requesting it.  American Airlines took about the same time, but I had to ask twice (they tried telling me my flights were non refundable when they in fact cancelled them) but I still got that back in approx. 20 days also. 

 

Not sure why it's taking 90 days for Carnival.

 

 

 

Carnival Corp has over 100 ships NCL has what, 17? Over 1 million refunds to process versus thousands.

 

An airline cancels a flight? Big deal - a few hundred refunds to process.

 

CCL is no criminal, despite what pot stirrers try to sell.

 

 

[epjenk]

90 days is ridiculous and there is no rhyme or reason to who gets refunded when.    We had a March 14 departure with a big school group for Senior trip.  Even when it was clear the situation was deteriorating rapidly Carnival waited and cancelled the sailing the day before when we were all already en route to the port.  With 20 families, I am the ONLY one in my group that has not gotten a refund, and Carnival can't give me any reason for that.  All they do is just keep responding with "thank you for your patience, I can't confirm the time frame, but refunds are being processed."     They have had full payment on this trip since January, cancelled March 14th, and two months later they are still holding my money interest free.   Cruises used to be a favorite way to travel, but I'm done for a really long time, virus or no virus.  

Edited May 12, 2020 by epjenk

[Jasalth]

For all of those who are upset, keep one thing in mind, you are talking about a company who in the past, full refunds were a thing few and far between! 

 

Refunding a deposit as people cancel cruises sporadically isn't a big deal. Refunding 100+ ships of anywhere between 2000-5000 refunds a WEEK is a different story. And it isn't like people pay for a cruise in just 1 way. For my canceled cruise, my deposit was on 1 card because that is the one my TA had on file. The rest of the payments were a combination of a different CC and gift cards. They can't just "hit a button" to refund things because no 2 situations are the same.

 

Yes, you would expect a big company to be able to do something, but here is a good example of how even not large companies can screw up! So my regional grocery store. The location by me is a very low volume store (I used to work there, by low volume I mean we are talking about less than $30k sales in a week for the store itself, the pharmacy even low volume kept the store afloat by tripling the sales a week..) They switched this store to pick up/delivery only last week! YEAH FOR ME! Anyways, I ordered a bag of apples in my order. I got charged for a bag of apples ($5). I go home to put away my groceries and I have 1 apple in a bag. So I have to call. 30 mins on hold, to be told they will try and contact the store. In the store.. only 1 person can do refunds and they left already for the day! 15 mins later I get connected to the main customer care #. 15 mins later, I have a $5 credit on my account for my next order. Now.. this is a place you could have walked into 2 weeks ago, and gotten a refund (or at least my apples darn it!!) The system is all screwed up now because it is not in person. 

 

Just... look on the bright side! We aren't sailing MSC though! Their refund policy is they will start to process it 60 days AFTER THE SAIL DATE. 90 day final payment, and no refund processed until after the sail date even if they cancel! Not 90 days like Carnival is saying... 150+ days! 

[sparks1093]

I can certainly understand the angst, I have just under 2500 beans that need to be refunded, but I fail to see any nefarious plot on the part of CCL. When I look at the total situation- the number of refunds that need to be processed, the potentially limited staffing, the reduced productivity of staff working from home, AND most importantly the fact that all of the other cruise lines are experiencing the same delays in processing refunds I can't see any of this as CCL's effort to screw over their passengers. I've asked the question twice and no one who is blaming CCL has answered- what is a reasonable time frame for processing over a million refunds? Let's do the math- if an employee can process a refund every 10 minutes that's 6 per hour, potentially 48 per day with no breaks for anything and no glitches in the processing systems. In 5 days that's 240 refunds. 100 employees could process 24000 refunds a week. That would mean that to process the million refunds it would take almost 42 weeks to process all of the refunds. My hope is that they have more than 100 employees available for this and that it doesn't take as long to process a refund but the fact remains that it is going to take time to process them all.