Ombud Posted September 19, 2020 #251 Share Posted September 19, 2020 (edited) Could Coral be next? If going by size not just age then: Pacific - 670 (Niche market? Chinese rivers? That JV market will be huge) Coral - last of the 2000 passenger ships, built 2002 Edited September 19, 2020 by Ombud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Coral Posted September 19, 2020 #252 Share Posted September 19, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, Ombud said: Could Coral be next? If going by size not just age then: Coral - last of the 2000 passenger ships, built 2002 No - they are going to keep her around due to her size. Edited September 19, 2020 by Coral Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ombud Posted September 19, 2020 #253 Share Posted September 19, 2020 Why? Would she be less profitable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Coral Posted September 19, 2020 #254 Share Posted September 19, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Ombud said: Why? Would she be less profitable? That and the Island are great ships for World Cruises, etc... They can't fill the larger ships for World Cruise and some other locations outside of the norm. Edited September 19, 2020 by Coral Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtnesterz Posted September 19, 2020 #255 Share Posted September 19, 2020 (edited) 16 hours ago, woodscruise said: So from the above you can see the majority of Princess fleet is destination P&OA. Inclined to agree. View at the Carnival fleets as a whole. The Star and Golden are moving over to P&O Aus. Possibly follow this path with the Grand. Despite only being a year newer than the P&O Pacific Explorer, a Sun-class ship. The Golden holds 500 additional passengers and more balcony cabins. The Coral and Island Princess are needed for smaller ports worldwide. Carnival should hold onto the Elation and Paradise for their port requirements. Edited September 19, 2020 by mtnesterz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ombud Posted September 19, 2020 #256 Share Posted September 19, 2020 @Coralso there are ports downunder that cannot accommodate tenders? Is that why Coral is shifted there as Sea / Sun leave? Sky / Enchanted / Discovery (and perhaps Majestic) come up here & future TAs to increase passenger load while decreasing number / age of ships? I need to read their quarterly Still wonder about Grand (age) + other older ones in HAL grouping. Time to speed up lightening the fleet due to Covid-19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubbapuck Posted September 19, 2020 #257 Share Posted September 19, 2020 17 minutes ago, Ombud said: @Coralso there are ports downunder that cannot accommodate tenders? Is that why Coral is shifted there as Sea / Sun leave? Sky / Enchanted / Discovery (and perhaps Majestic) come up here & future TAs to increase passenger load while decreasing number / age of ships? I need to read their quarterly Still wonder about Grand (age) + other older ones in HAL grouping. Time to speed up lightening the fleet due to Covid-19 I am looking at the Grand as a backup cruise out of Vancouver for my cruise that might be cancelled on the Sun. Crazy that it is this hard to get a cruise situated. I dont think the grand will go as it is Medallion Class already and is a good size for World and Alaska cruises. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ombud Posted September 20, 2020 #258 Share Posted September 20, 2020 Update: a few corrections made by @mtnesterz: Sold not transferred within corporation: Costa Atlantica -> CSSC Carnival Cruise Shipping (JV had 14b. 60% Chinese stockholders / 40% CCL so $$ in) Costa Mediterranea -> CSSC Carnival Cruise Shipping Costa neoRomantica -> Celestyal Cruises Experience HAL Amsterdam -> Fred Olsen Bolette HAL Rotterdam -> Fred Olsen Borealis HAL Maasdam -> Seajets HAL Veendam -> Seajets P&O Oceana -> Seajets Queen of the Oceans Sun Princess > Pacific World Peace Ships Scrapped: Costa Victoria Carnival Fantasy Carnival Inspiration Carnival Fascination Carnival Imagination Announced but buyer unknown: POAU Pacific Aria -> POAU Pacific Dawn -> Sea Princess > WHO'S #18?? CSSC is looking for another? Which ship is smallest / least profitable? Or would they buy a new one (Majestic is not a medallion vessel) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ombud Posted September 20, 2020 #259 Share Posted September 20, 2020 (edited) thank you @Seacruise & @mtnesterz for the HAL updates!! Some dust settled FAST imho this will calm down for a while now. Sold (not transferred within CCL): Costa Atlantica -> CSSC Carnival Cruise Shipping (JV 60% Chinese stockholders / 40% CCL) Costa Mediterranea -> CSSC Carnival Cruise Shipping Costa neoRomantica -> Celestyal Cruises Experience HAL Amsterdam -> Fred Olsen Bolette HAL Rotterdam -> Fred Olsen Borealis HAL Maasdam -> Seajets Aegan Myths HAL Veendam -> Seajets Aegean Majesty P&O Oceana -> Seajets Queen of the Oceans Sun Princess > Pacific World Peace Ships Scrapped: Costa Victoria Carnival Fantasy Carnival Inspiration Carnival Fascination Carnival Imagination Announced but buyer unknown: POAU Pacific Aria -> POAU Pacific Dawn -> Sea Princess > WHO'S #18?? Edited September 20, 2020 by Ombud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ombud Posted September 21, 2020 #260 Share Posted September 21, 2020 With eliminating 18 ships comes with "7,000 termination letters to Carnival officers and crew members ... laying off eight captains (masters), five staff captains, five guest service managers, six executive chefs and six hotel directors .... one hundred and twenty crew members and officers working in the bridge across the Carnival fleet of ship. "[https://www.cruiselawnews.com/2020/09/articles/disease/carnival-cruise-line-terminates-thousands-of-crew-members-and-senior-shipboard-officers/ ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare ontheweb Posted September 21, 2020 #261 Share Posted September 21, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, Ombud said: With eliminating 18 ships comes with "7,000 termination letters to Carnival officers and crew members ... laying off eight captains (masters), five staff captains, five guest service managers, six executive chefs and six hotel directors .... one hundred and twenty crew members and officers working in the bridge across the Carnival fleet of ship. "[https://www.cruiselawnews.com/2020/09/articles/disease/carnival-cruise-line-terminates-thousands-of-crew-members-and-senior-shipboard-officers/ ] That is truly a shame. You have to feel sorry for all of those people. Edited September 21, 2020 by ontheweb corrected typo sham to shame 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ombud Posted September 21, 2020 #262 Share Posted September 21, 2020 Sad. But with 18 ships leaving and only 2 coming is there's bound to be layoffs unless there's a lot of retirements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ombud Posted September 21, 2020 #263 Share Posted September 21, 2020 Just compiled this list. Ships delivered before 2000: Carnival Ecstasy 1991 - least efficient in fleet Carnival Sensation 1993 - least efficient in fleet AIDAcara 1996 POAU Explorer 1997 Carnival Elation 1998 Carnival Paradise 1998 Grand Princess 1998 Carnival Paradise 1998 Pacific Princess 1999 HAL MS Volendam 1999 HAL MS Zaandam 2000 PO Aurora 2000 New builds due to be delivered; Princess Enchanted 2020 PO Iona 2020 Costa Firenze 2020 Discovery Princess 2021 AIDAcosma May 2021 HAL MSRotterdam July 2021 Seabourn Venture December 2021 I wonder if some of those 2021s will be pushed back and even more of the pre-2000s out. 🍿 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ombud Posted September 21, 2020 #264 Share Posted September 21, 2020 Older CCL ships delivered before 2001. Guesses as to who's #18: (mine in red, yes 3)Carnival Ecstasy 1991 Carnival Sensation 1993 AIDAcara 1996POAU Explorer 1997 Carnival Elation 1998 Carnival Paradise 1998 Grand Princess 1998 Carnival Paradise 1998 Pacific Princess 1999 HAL MS Volendam 1999 HAL MS Zaandam 2000 PO Aurora 2000 New CCL builds due to be delivered; Princess Enchanted 2020 PO Iona 2020 Costa Firenze 2020 Carnival Mardi Gras February 2021 Discovery Princess 2021 AIDAcosma May 2021 HAL MSRotterdam July 2021 Seabourn Venture December 2021 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtnesterz Posted September 21, 2020 #265 Share Posted September 21, 2020 While this thread concerns itself with Carnival's fleets, it is worth noting that all those secondary lines which have picked up surplus first line stock will also be disposing, probably scrapping, their older ships. Regarding job losses, bigger ships, more crew, more support, more upkeep. Some fleets expanding into new markets, like Seajets, going from no "cruise" ships to three. Hope there will be some offset internationally to job losses. If the Elation and Paradise take over Mobile and Tampa, then Ecstasy and Sensation. But if too many ships go, there will be less revenue when things restart. Plus or minus, I don't think we have heard the final tally. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crystabel Posted September 21, 2020 #266 Share Posted September 21, 2020 Interesting that Princess shows that all cruises on the Sea Princess are sold out until October 2021. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubbapuck Posted September 21, 2020 #267 Share Posted September 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, Crystabel said: Interesting that Princess shows that all cruises on the Sea Princess are sold out until October 2021. must be a popular ship! 😉 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtnesterz Posted September 21, 2020 #268 Share Posted September 21, 2020 (edited) Same for the Sun. Dec, 2020 to Aug 2021. Edited September 21, 2020 by mtnesterz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crystabel Posted September 21, 2020 #269 Share Posted September 21, 2020 I guess Princess is telling us something without telling us. 🙃 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ombud Posted September 21, 2020 #270 Share Posted September 21, 2020 It would not be cost effective to bring back up to sell it off. BUT it takes time to play musical ships. They will want to reassign pax hoping the reassignments at same embarkation ports / almost same date are acceptable and they don't have to refund (just sweeten with a little OBC). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare azbirdmom Posted September 21, 2020 #271 Share Posted September 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Crystabel said: I guess Princess is telling us something without telling us. 🙃 That's the usual step that happens before they tell you they have pulled the plug on one or many cruises. That's what happened with our Baltic cruise on the Sky that was recently cancelled and also our October Tahiti cruise. 😞 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V_icki_e Posted September 21, 2020 #272 Share Posted September 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Ombud said: It would not be cost effective to bring back up to sell it off. BUT it takes time to play musical ships. They will want to reassign pax hoping the reassignments at same embarkation ports / almost same date are acceptable and they don't have to refund (just sweeten with a little OBC). That's a really interesting thought! Considering that Australia is still very 'closed' due to Covid, I just presumed that they would sell the Sea and Sun and cancel the corresponding cruises. For my particular cruise in early February, the Sea was to be sailing from Freemantle in the state of Western Australia (WA). WA has all land and sea borders completely shut with firm indication that they will not be open by Christmas. I wonder if Princess would even consider mucking around with trying to get a new ship/itinerary in there?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare azbirdmom Posted September 21, 2020 #273 Share Posted September 21, 2020 Well the Sun and Sea have now been pulled from the list of ships when searching for a cruise. This is what our cruise on the Sun looks like when I pull up my saved cruises: And in my list of upcoming cruises, this is how our booked Sun cruise appears: Yet there is still no official word that our cruise has been cancelled. As usual Princess communication is really lacking. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V_icki_e Posted September 22, 2020 #274 Share Posted September 22, 2020 31 minutes ago, azbirdmom said: Well the Sun and Sea have now been pulled from the list of ships when searching for a cruise. This is what our cruise on the Sun looks like when I pull up my saved cruises: And in my list of upcoming cruises, this is how our booked Sun cruise appears: Yet there is still no official word that our cruise has been cancelled. As usual Princess communication is really lacking. Yes, exactly the same on my personaliser yet when I called Princess, the rep said there was no information about the Sea or Sun leaving the fleet??? Surely one of these days a booked cruise of mine will actually sail 😞 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare azbirdmom Posted September 22, 2020 #275 Share Posted September 22, 2020 Just now, V_icki_e said: Yes, exactly the same on my personaliser yet when I called Princess, the rep said there was no information about the Sea or Sun leaving the fleet??? Surely one of these days a booked cruise of mine will actually sail 😞 They really should have learned by now to get their ducks in a row before doing stuff like this. And I feel your pain - this is the 4th cruise that Princess has cancelled on us since March. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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