Royal Viking Line/Viking Oceans

[Jim Avery]

     The common thread between Royal Viking Line and Viking Oceans is, of course, Torstein Hagen.  I have heard folks speaking highly of Royal Viking Line for years but have never sailed them.  At that time I was using my limited funds and vacation time to sail QE2 to England to see family.  Now we love Viking Oceans and look forward to being able to return to normalcy at some point.  Until then, is there any among us Viking Oceans Cruise Criticers (new word) that have sailed RVL and can tell us how it was as well as maybe some of the similarities/differences with Viking Oceans?  

[Peregrina651]

 

Jim, for those of us who are late to the party, what more can you tell us about RVL? Where did they sail? Which ships did it own and where did those ships go when the line ceased operating?

[Heidi13]

RVL was conceived in the early 70's, starting with 3 ships, which were virtually identical. The first one RV Star had a couple of minor differences from the next 2 ships - RV Sky and RV Sea. The ships were spectacular, proper looking ships. Passenger counts were only about 500 to 550, whereas similar sized Princess ships were 750.

 

Memory is hazy, but I recall the founding partners, which were all Scandinavian (possibly all Norwegian) , each owned one of the original vessels. They marketed heavily in the US, aiming at the wealthy retiree market. Cruises were longer and to more exotic locations.

 

In the mid 70's, I recall reading they were the first sister ships to transit the Panama Canal simultaneously.

 

Torstein, as CEO of Bergen Line, replaced Warren Titus as CEO of RVL about 79/80. One of his first initiatives was lengthening the 3 ships by almost 100'. A German S/Y built the new sections, the ships were cut in half and the new section moved into place, with the ship welded together. I still remember reading and watching the films showing the operation.

 

In the mid-80's, Torstein tried to purchase RVL and had financing in place, but the owners sold to Norwegian Cruises, which was owned by a Norwegian businessman. He left the company, which then built a 4th ship in the late 80's - RV Sun, which was bigger than the first 3 ships. They built a 5th ship, a small excursion v/l in the 90's that was similar to the Seabourn Ships.

 

RVL was folded in the 90's, with the ships moved to NCL & Royal Cruises. Lost track of the ships, but 2 of them ended up with Fred Olsen Lines and they had a very loyal following, one of whom was my dad.

 

Never sailed with them, but passed them weekly in Alaska and saw them often in port. Really spectacular ships. 

 

Notice any similarities to the development of VO.

[CurlerRob]

RV Sun morphed into HAL Prinsendam. Here’s a bit from a HAL blog:

 

Prinsendam was built in 1988 as Royal Viking Sun for Royal Viking Line. The ship was operated by Cunard Line from 1994 through 1998 and then transferred to Seabourn Cruise Line, where it became Seabourn Sun in 1999. In 2002 the ship joined the Holland America Line fleet and was renamed Prinsendam. Much to the anger of her many loyal pax, she was sold in 2019 to  Phoenix Reisen , a Germany-based travel agency that also operates a fleet of cruise ships.

 
We had a number of great trips on her - at just over 800 pax, a similar vibe to VO, albeit much older and creakier 😬

 

Pic below from 2015 in Ísafjörður.  🍺🥌

 

 

[Peregrina651]

1 hour ago, Heidi13 said:

Notice any similarities to the development of VO.

 

Star, Sea, Sky, Sun?

[oakridger]

My very first cruise was on Royal Viking Line from San Francisco to Puerta Vallarta Mexico in 1981.  Oh my gosh, as a 28 year old, a lot of the people on board  thought I was staff! I wasn't.  It got me hooked on cruising!  It was so different than today but I like now in a good way as far as I am concerned.  I really like the more relaxed atmosphere today but sure did have fun on the first cruise! Those Norwegian officers were soooooo handsome and charming!!!

 

 

~Nancy

Edited October 27, 2020 by oakridger
wrong

[Heidi13]

13 hours ago, Peregrina651 said:

 

Star, Sea, Sky, Sun?

Peregrina wins the prize. Affirmative, same order for the first ships.

[Jim Avery]

That and the styling cue of very long overhanging bows.  

[OnTheJourney]

Most interesting. I had never heard of them before. 

[Jim Avery]

1 hour ago, OnTheJourney said:

Most interesting. I had never heard of them before. 

Wikipedia has a pretty good overview of Royal Viking Line.

[Rotterdam]

RVL was a modern luxury line in it's time.  The ships were more club like w low passenger count & high staff ratio.  The food & service were top notch in a modern subdued decor.

Very good shore excursions in varied ports.  Lots of black tie evenings w women in ball gowns & the jewelry was real.

I wish they would build more ships like them..even RV SUN/ HAL PRINSENDAM was a wonderful ship...I only got to sail on her for 16 days & loved every moment.

[Host Jazzbeau]

Anyone know what you have to do to use the word 'Royal' in your name?  Or is it just puffery...

[Jim Avery]

14 minutes ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

Anyone know what you have to do to use the word 'Royal' in your name?  Or is it just puffery...

Haha, great question.  I vote for puffery.  Just look at Cunard.  Only they could see a Queen in a basic Fincantieri cruise ship.😎

[Host Jazzbeau]

9 minutes ago, Jim Avery said:

Haha, great question.  I vote for puffery.  Just look at Cunard.  Only they could see a Queen in a basic Fincantieri cruise ship.😎

 

But Cunard actually has had permission.  "Legend has it that [in 1936] Cunard wanted to name [its new] ship Victoria, but after asking [King George V] for permission to name the ship “after Britain’s greatest queen,” he replied that his wife [i.e. Queen Mary] would be delighted."  And that's how the Queen Mary got its name.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/cruises/articles/fascinating-facts-about-queen-mary-cruise-ship/

[Jim Avery]

Just now, Host Jazzbeau said:

 

But Cunard actually has had permission.  "Legend has it that [in 1936] Cunard wanted to name [its new] ship Victoria, but after asking [King George V] for permission to name the ship “after Britain’s greatest queen,” he replied that his wife [i.e. Queen Mary] would be delighted."  And that's how the Queen Mary got its name.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/cruises/articles/fascinating-facts-about-queen-mary-cruise-ship/

A land far, far away in a time long, long ago.  Remember, we are talking Carnival here.  Don't remember seeing Mickey Arison asking Queen Elizabeth for any permission.  I have sailed Cunard since birth but see very little Cunard in the current product.  

[Rotterdam]

16 hours ago, Jim Avery said:

A land far, far away in a time long, long ago.  Remember, we are talking Carnival here.  Don't remember seeing Mickey Arison asking Queen Elizabeth for any permission.  I have sailed Cunard since birth but see very little Cunard in the current product.  

How true.

My parents sailed Cunard since the 1960's w all British officers & crew.  I sailed Cunard since the 1980's/ pre CARNIVORE CORP( & after).   Its like comparing a Ritz Carlton Hotel to a Holiday Inn.

We liked the Italian &  French lines along w Cunard. My favorite memory was doing the first leg of a World Cruise on QE2....

ABSOLUTELY FABULOUS....START TO FINISH🚢

[Heidi13]

18 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

Anyone know what you have to do to use the word 'Royal' in your name?  Or is it just puffery...

 

Depends on which country you are registering the business.

 

In UK, you must complete an application to even use the word "Royal" in a business name. Some companies also receive warrants of appointment, as approved purveyors of goods and/or services to the Queen, or other members of the Royal Household.

 

When I researched naming a Canadian business, the word "Royal" wasn't a prohibited term, but we were not permitted to use a name that implied a government or institution connection, with royalty one of the examples. Written permission is required. 

 

Cunard received permission to use "Queen" in the ship names, but when P&O was created, they received a royal charter from Queen Victoria in the mid 1840's.

[Heidi13]

18 hours ago, Jim Avery said:

A land far, far away in a time long, long ago.  Remember, we are talking Carnival here.  Don't remember seeing Mickey Arison asking Queen Elizabeth for any permission.  I have sailed Cunard since birth but see very little Cunard in the current product.  

 

So true Jim.

 

Although I never sailed with Cunard, I experienced the same Carnivalisation (decimation) of the once great cruise line P&O. Once they purchased P&O/Princess the standards went into the tank, for all - pax, Masters, Officers and Ratings.

 

When I worked for P&O, we were well treated, didn't make much money on cruise ships, but we had exceptional benefits and working conditions. Everyone in the same rank received the same remuneration & benefits. When our son joined Princess, they had multiple contracts based on nationality, so with three 3rd Officers on a ship, they all earned different amounts and had different, if any, benefits. The Princess North American contracts were the worst, with cash paid on board each month, but zero benefits. Once they paid-off, they received no pay, no medical, no pension, no education, etc. The exact opposite to what we received.

 

As pax, we saw the standards gradually decline, until we finally gave up and moved to Viking.

 

Even the Masters were treated shoddily. I recall an example of a British Master joining a ship in Vancouver. We were cadets together, so Judi & I met him for dinner in Vancouver the night before he assumed command. Vancouver had 2 British Airways direct flights a day from LHR + an Air Canada flight, but Princess sent him to Seattle and then up to Vancouver, adding a couple of hours to the flights. Why - although longer, the Seattle flight was most likely cheaper.

 

Also recall our son joining a ship in South Korea, with his initial flights going from Vancouver to Chicago, then Japan and Korea. We have multiple daily flights from YVR across the Pacific to Asia. He refused and eventually got a more direct flight. Why - again the original flights were cheaper. The bean counters didn't care that the S/2/O, as senior officer on 12-4 (when the Master is asleep) would arrive fatigued and navigating the ship in congested waters.