New vaccine

[arlowood]

59 minutes ago, Aulanis said:

BIL  has emailed he has just had his 1st jab  (or maybe 3rd)  He ,as did some of you took part in the Novavax trials but was never told if he had the real thing or the placebo.   He doesnt know why he was called up  for a vaccine

as he is in the 60-69 group  but went and they didnt know either but gave it.

Arm was sore for 2 days  so he contacted  whoever at Novavax and they said it was OK but in no circumstances should he take a  second (Fourth) jab  until it was confirmed what he had had on the trial as 3 was more than enough for anyone!!! 

Just wondering if any of you have been told what you had in the trials and what you have to do when called up under the normal channels.

I was a volunteer in the over-70 cohort for the Oxford/AZ vaccine. When the Pfizer vaccine received approval back in December we were sent information about how to respond if we got an invitation to have the NHS vaccine.

Essentially we should contact the study directors for the group we were involved with and ask to be "unblinded". If we had received 2 doses of the Oxford vaccine then we were told that we need not take the Pfizer (or any other) jab. If we only had one dose of the Oxford vaccine or the placebo then we should accept the offer from the NHS to be jabbed. Unfortunately the unblinding means that any data cannot be included in the final assessment but we were asked to continue with the follow up visits as the data generated would still be valuable for safety and immune response purposes.

As it happens I had the placebo and was inoculated yesterday with the Pfizer vaccine

[bobstheboy]

Had mine this morning at GP's this morning. Still smiling. Very well organised and nice to see so many of us OAP's being taken care of.

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, wowzz said:

It all seems a bit disjointed,  although, to be fair,  the numbers vaccinated are excellent.

Mrs W got a phone call from our surgery yesterday, giving her an appointment at the local vaccine centre tomorrow. Today she got a letter inviting her to book an appointment on line.

Better to have two chances of an appointment rather than one of course, but it does show how fragmented the NHS has become.

I think they are persuing the correct course by having offers coming from various areas of the NHS, that way they are able to offer alternative venues, and hopefully maximise take up.

[Selbourne]

1 hour ago, Aulanis said:

 

Have you seen the letters?    Mine for my first jab says   (inter alia)

If you have had your first vaccine dose already , ignore this letter.

the nhs will contact you when it is time for your second.

 

So your plan of waiting for a follow up from the GP seems the way to go.

Thanks for clarifying that. My Mum obviously only read me part of the letter when she called me worried that she might have “done something wrong” as she hadn’t booked an appointment for her second jab when she had the first! I guess it happens to us all when we reach a certain age! As I said, it’s no big deal as if the GP doesn’t contact her for the second jab (which it sounds as though they will) we can call the number in the letter. Better to have two routes than one, or none! Thanks again for clarifying. I will call her to put her mind at ease. 

[Snow Hill]

Information released last night 80% of over 80s in borough have received their first dose, all older care homes residents have had their first dose, as have hundreds of adult and social care staff. February will see priority groups 3 & 4 getting their first dose and possibly group 5.

 

Is moving quickly now hopefully the government doesn’t reduce vaccine allocation here after being behind the curve initially.

 

Great work by NHS staff  and the volunteers organising the various locations I have only seem positive feedback to date.

[P&O SUE]

My brother in law has just moved jobs - as a manager of a care home to another care home. He started Monday and has just had his jab as have his residents.

 

Madly, though, some of the staff have refused to have it!

[Angel57]

55 minutes ago, P&O SUE said:

My brother in law has just moved jobs - as a manager of a care home to another care home. He started Monday and has just had his jab as have his residents.

 

Madly, though, some of the staff have refused to have it!

I wonder if at some point those who opt not to have the vaccine and who work in a hospital or care home will find their jobs at risk? 

[Selbourne]

59 minutes ago, P&O SUE said:

My brother in law has just moved jobs - as a manager of a care home to another care home. He started Monday and has just had his jab as have his residents.

 

Madly, though, some of the staff have refused to have it!

Great to hear that your brother and his residents have received their jabs Sue. A friend of my sister works in a care home and they lost 10 residents in one week just 2 weeks ago! The aim was that all care home residents would be vaccinated by 31st Jan and it’s looking hopeful that this has been achieved. I wonder if the staff who have refused the jab are from the ethnic groups where anti-vax propaganda is rife? I see that some cities have appointed vaccination ambassadors from within these communities to counter some of the nonsense, such as ‘it changes your DNA’!

Edited January 31, 2021 by Selbourne

[Harry Peterson]

3 minutes ago, Angel57 said:

I wonder if at some point those who opt not to have the vaccine and who work in a hospital or care home will find their jobs at risk? 

Almost certainly. One of the large care providers has already said it will only recruit those who are prepared to be vaccinated, I believe.

[wowzz]

5 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

One of the large care providers has already said it will only recruit those who are prepared to be vaccinated, I believe.

The problem is that workers in care homes generally are extremely poorly paid. It's difficult enough to recruit staff in the first place without adding other restrictions.  (Just to add that I'm not disputing that staff should be vaccinated, just pointing out the difficulties should vaccination be made a  condition of employment)

[brian1]

46 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

Great to hear that your brother and his residents have received their jabs Sue. A friend of my sister works in a care home and they lost 10 residents in one week just 2 weeks ago! The aim was that all care home residents would be vaccinated by 31st Jan and it’s looking hopeful that this has been achieved. I wonder if the staff who have refused the jab are from the ethnic groups where anti-vax propaganda is rife? I see that some cities have appointed vaccination ambassadors from within these communities to counter some of the nonsense, such as ‘it changes your DNA’!

I mentioned this 2 weeks ago.That the fake news in the BAME community was one of the reasons why London is not as successful in the rollout.For some reason the post disappeared.

[Adawn47]

50 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

Almost certainly. One of the large care providers has already said it will only recruit those who are prepared to be vaccinated, I believe.

I did hear that they can't make vaccinations a condition for those already emlpoyed in care homes, but will for any new employees. 

Avril

[Harry Peterson]

Just now, Adawn47 said:

I did hear that they can't make vaccinations a condition for those already emlpoyed in care homes, but will for any new employees. 

Avril

That’s my understanding too, Avril.

[Eglesbrech]

31 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

Almost certainly. One of the large care providers has already said it will only recruit those who are prepared to be vaccinated, I believe.

At present employers should be very careful about this. They can certainly encourage vaccination among current staff but very, very few contracts for current staff have clauses which would allow any kind of enforcement. Forcing the point would most likely result in an unfair dismissal claim.

 

In terms of recruitment they can state this but then can also be challenged, there are several grounds where people can object eg pregnant applicants, some religions (on the basis of gelatine), some types of disability etc. Also at present younger groups are many months away from a vaccine so age discrimination could come into play for employers who can’t guarantee new employees a vaccine - care homes would be able to do so I would imagine.
 

There are also questions of immediate or later side effects if an employee or potential employee has effectively been “forced” into vaccination by their employer. While the vaccine seems to have done nothing more that give a slightly sore arm, exceptions always prove the rule and your employee could be one of the minuscule number who have an allergic reaction.
 

Encouragement and explaining the many benefits of vaccination is probably a better strategy. The government are not forcing vaccination so employers should perhaps follow that lead.

 

The level of people attending for vaccine so far is really encouraging so hopefully most people will choose to get vaccinated.

[tring]

10 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

 

 

In terms of recruitment they can state this but then can also be challenged, there are several grounds where people can object eg , some religions (on the basis of gelatine),

 

It appears this is fake news.  I did not think it likely so googled it and found this:-

 

https://fullfact.org/health/there-isnt-pork-in-covid-19-vaccines/

 

If it were true though, it would exclude all vegetarians and vegans, since gelatine is of animal origin of course.

Edited January 31, 2021 by tring

[Eglesbrech]

1 minute ago, tring said:

 

It appears this is fake news.  I did not think it likely so googled it and found this:-

 

https://fullfact.org/health/there-isnt-pork-in-covid-19-vaccines/

 

If it were true though it would exclude all vegetarians and vegans, since gelatine is of animal origin of course.

Some religions are vegetarian which is what I was referring to however your link is very interesting. There is information out there from usually very reliable sources which reference the religious aspect.
 

Vegetarians and vegans would have limited protection as potential employees as this is not (as yet) a protected characteristic. “Ethical” vegans however could have this protection, there has been at least one test case on this.

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, Angel57 said:

I wonder if at some point those who opt not to have the vaccine and who work in a hospital or care home will find their jobs at risk? 

They could find their lives at risk, which is even worse.

[pete14]

As it has been proved that Covid vaccines contain no pork or other meat derivatives, and that faith leaders have encouraged adherents of their faith to have the vaccination (the greater health good can over-ride dietary laws) surely there is no need for any further discussion or conversation about it. 

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, wowzz said:

The problem is that workers in care homes generally are extremely poorly paid. It's difficult enough to recruit staff in the first place without adding other restrictions.  (Just to add that I'm not disputing that staff should be vaccinated, just pointing out the difficulties should vaccination be made a  condition of employment)

My BIL has 4 home car visits a day, plus one overnight to turn him and avoid bed sores, which does seem to be successful.  We have been worried ever since the pandemic started that they might infect him but, whether by good luck or excellent covid secure safety protocols he remains well, and both he and my SIL will have their jabs by a home visit tomorrow.

I agree wowzz that care providers are grossly underpaid, but we just have to hope that this pandemic will provide a reset to the whole care sector whether private or state financed, and start to provide properly financed care to enable truly adequate wages for their employees.

[P&O SUE]

My sister said the company were thinking of suspending the staff who wouldn’t have the vaccine but they doubted it was legal. It’s everyone’s choice obviously but I just think it’s staggering people doing that job would refuse it.

[tring]

36 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

Some religions are vegetarian which is what I was referring to however your link is very interesting. There is information out there from usually very reliable sources which reference the religious aspect.
 

Vegetarians and vegans would have limited protection as potential employees as this is not (as yet) a protected characteristic. “Ethical” vegans however could have this protection, there has been at least one test case on this.

 

This information is a lot more important than being an employment issue, though I appreciate that was the reason for your first post.

 

Your post is still implying that gelatine is present in the vaccines, which it seems is totally untrue.  Propagatiing this fake information would give vegetarians and vegans a very good reason to refuse the vaccine, which is why I was convinced it would not be present in the ones being used and made my previous post, with the link provided in it. 

Edited January 31, 2021 by tring

[tring]

22 minutes ago, pete14 said:

As it has been proved that Covid vaccines contain no pork or other meat derivatives, and that faith leaders have encouraged adherents of their faith to have the vaccination (the greater health good can over-ride dietary laws) surely there is no need for any further discussion or conversation about it. 

 

+1

[Eglesbrech]

4 minutes ago, tring said:

 

This information is a lot more important than being an employment issue, though I appreciate that was the reason for your first post.

The employment aspect was all I intended to discuss further to the previous comments in the thread. I believed my information to come from a very reliable source however I will ask for that part of the sentence and the subsequent comments to be removed, should host Sharon choose to do so.

[Selbourne]

25 minutes ago, pete14 said:

As it has been proved that Covid vaccines contain no pork or other meat derivatives, and that faith leaders have encouraged adherents of their faith to have the vaccination (the greater health good can over-ride dietary laws) surely there is no need for any further discussion or conversation about it. 

I would agree, but for the fact that these nonsenses still prevail in certain communities. It was on our local TV news yet again on Friday. Community Covid ambassadors saying that whilst there is plenty of evidence to debunk all this nonsense, which they are widely sharing, they are still finding high levels of resistance within their communities. 

[Adawn47]

It's a very delicate situation we are finding ourselves in with regards to vaccinations. A large majority are waiting anxiously for their jabs, and others will refuse them for their own personal reasons, which is their right, but where do we draw the line when another persons decision can impact the lives of others? Covid is new, causing a rare pandemic, and is proving to be just as infectious and just as deadly, as for instance Ebola. You only have to see what is happening in the hospitals, as shown on the BBC news last night, to see the devastaing and heartbreaking  impact of this virus. 

Yes, we each have a right to form our own opinions and choose whether or not to be vaccinated, but others in turn, have the right to protect their own livelihoods when caring for others in the community.

My own personal view and not meant to offend.

Avril