New vaccine

[Castle25]

1 hour ago, terrierjohn said:

Zap surely you realise the UK govt have got everything wrong about covid so far,  so presumably their vaccination policy MUST  be wrong as well.

Actually, the decision for who gets the vaccine is NOTHING to do with the govt

[jeanlyon]

I wonder if more people getting the flu vaccine this year means there were less deaths from that?

[Dinglebert]

7 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

I wonder if more people getting the flu vaccine this year means there were less deaths from that?

You can add to that the fact that many people who would be the group who could die from the flu are also the group isolating and therefore the flu hasn't had the change to have its normal impact on society.  Same happened in Austrailia during their winter.

[lincslady]

Back to Indonesia - I don't know about their particular vaccine, but one can see how a second or third world country might have different priorities - first, problems with their economies , but also maybe that often the grannies will be living with t he younger families, and therefore not going out and about like we do in the west.

 

My daughter's bins are not being emptied regularly at present - due to absence from work.  It is not the most important thing in the world, but makes you realise how much we rely on the essential workers like them and lots of others to be able to work - i.e. they need to be vaccinated asap.

 

Being cycnical, my first thought on the decision to vaccinate the oldest first was  to keep the hospitals from being swamped  by very old  people, and to placate those who  feel care homes have been neglected.  ( Sorry, I know that is being a bit  crude, but I am one of the old ones.)

[Adawn47]

22 minutes ago, yorkshirephil said:

As Winnie said Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics. People will believe whatever suits their point of view or whether they are optimists or pessimists. I usually follow the national statistics office excess deaths, but that can't tell the full story as we won't know how many would have died without covid. The one thing is that it is too many and it is not going to start going down for a few weeks at least. The media will print whatever they want and some people will believe that.

I think another problem with the statistics is that there is no distinction between deaths of people with covid as opposed to deaths caused  by covid.

Avril

[Castle25]

2 minutes ago, Adawn47 said:

I think another problem with the statistics is that there is no distinction between deaths of people with covid as opposed to deaths caused  by covid.

Avril

Very true - they stopped reporting on this as it over 90% of people dying had underlying conditions

[Adawn47]

17 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

I wonder if more people getting the flu vaccine this year means there were less deaths from that?

My daughter 51, has this morning recieved a letter from the hospital asking her to contact our doctor to arrange for a flu vaccination, and explaining the importance of one. 

Avril

[yorkshirephil]

24 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

I wonder if more people getting the flu vaccine this year means there were less deaths from that?

I would be amazed if there weren't fewer deaths from flu this year, more people vaccinated plus more of the vulnerable are shielding so shouldn't get it as easily. The difficult bit will be separating covid and flu deaths if that even happens.

[yorkshirephil]

6 minutes ago, Castle25 said:

Very true - they stopped reporting on this as it over 90% of people dying had underlying conditions

This is why I think excess deaths should be considered. It smooths out the figures and probably paints a more accurate picture overall.

[zap99]

39 minutes ago, Adawn47 said:

I think another problem with the statistics is that there is no distinction between deaths of people with covid as opposed to deaths caused  by covid.

Avril

We said Avril. I was just thinking that. It is a point that we seem to have forgotten. As somebody who has studied statistics I can tell you with absolute certainty that statistics don't lie. They are purely mathematics. It's how the charlatans use them. If 25% of traffic deaths are caused by drunks, 75% were sober. Conclusion, have a few drinks before you go out for a drive.🤣

[yorkshirephil]

2 minutes ago, zap99 said:

We said Avril. I was just thinking that. It is a point that we seem to have forgotten. As somebody who has studied statistics I can tell you with absolute certainty that statistics don't lie. They are purely mathematics. It's how the charlatans use them. If 25% of traffic deaths are caused by drunks, 75% were sober. Conclusion, have a few drinks before you go out for a drive.🤣

And that is exactly why I now sleep on the floor as 80% of men die in bed.

[wowzz]

3 minutes ago, yorkshirephil said:

And that is exactly why I now sleep on the floor as 80% of men die in bed.

And Baldrick carried around a bullet with his name on it.

[brian1]

1 hour ago, zap99 said:

Absolutely agree, it's a fine line. What I object too is constant criticism of everything officialism does. Often by people who repeat the same old. On another forum folk were discussing the Brazilian variant. I thought beauty salons were closed🤣

Don't think we've got the Brazilian yet,that's a close shave.

[Dermotsgirl]

1 hour ago, Adawn47 said:

I think another problem with the statistics is that there is no distinction between deaths of people with covid as opposed to deaths caused  by covid.

Avril

What I don't get is why Covid is the only illness that people what to know if people died 'of; or 'with'

 

I see lengthy debates about this on social media, and I am none the wiser why people find this such an issue.  If a person is unlucky enough to die within 28 days of a positive Covid test, then it's going to be highly likely that Covid had something to do with it, and if they didn't have Covid, then they probably wouldn't died on that particular day anyway.

 

Plus, I've never seen anybody, when talking about deaths from flu, say 'ah, but did they die of or with flu' 

[grapau27]

1 hour ago, Adawn47 said:

My daughter 51, has this morning recieved a letter from the hospital asking her to contact our doctor to arrange for a flu vaccination, and explaining the importance of one. 

Avril

Pauline 58 got a letter yesterday inviting her to make an appointment.

[wowzz]

So, if someone has terminal lung cancer, with only a few weeks to live, and contracts Covid, and unfortunately then dies, that person is classified as dying from CV19, whereas in reality lung cancer was the cause of death.

[purplesea]

1 minute ago, grapau27 said:

Pauline 58 got a letter yesterday inviting her to make an appointment.

Mine arrived at the weekend - I'm 63.

[Splice the mainbrace]

4 minutes ago, grapau27 said:

Pauline 58 got a letter yesterday inviting her to make an appointment.

 

My wife and I also had the flu letters this week.

We had the flu jab in September at Boots, they can't have fed back to our Doctors to update their records. I wonder how many times this has happened overall in the country and how much it has cost the NHS to chase up people who have already had it at Pharmacies. I hope that they have better systems in place for Covid jab record feedback!

[Son of Anarchy]

19 minutes ago, Splice the mainbrace said:

 

My wife and I also had the flu letters this week.

We had the flu jab in September at Boots, they can't have fed back to our Doctors to update their records. I wonder how many times this has happened overall in the country and how much it has cost the NHS to chase up people who have already had it at Pharmacies. I hope that they have better systems in place for Covid jab record feedback!

I got my letter a week or so ago and had the flu jab in early December also at Boots.  I even filled out a form giving my NHS number and GP's details.  Don't know whether Boots haven't informed my GP or the surgery haven't caught up with the admin.

Edited January 14, 2021 by Son of Anarchy

[Dinglebert]

2 minutes ago, Son of Anarchy said:

I got my letter a week or so ago and had the flu in early December also at Boots.  I even filled out a form giving my NHS number and GP's details.  Don't know whether Boots having informed my GP or the surgery haven't caught up with the admin.

I get mine every year at the hospital I work in.  They used to give me a slip of paper to hand over to the GP.  This stopped a few years ago.  I did ask when I got my covid vac if I need to let my GP know.  They said no.  There is no connection between my GP record and my hospital one.  I speak only about Scotland now.  GP are independant practioneers and have their own database.  Most but no all moved over to a new system a couple of years ago but that system is still very much practice based.  I too got the same letter informing me a could have the flu vac two months after I had had it.

[Dermotsgirl]

I had my flu jab in December at Boots

 

Either they fed back to my doctors or my doctors simply haven't bothered to write to me.

 

I can't help suspecting its the latter as my doctor isn't very proactive.

 

It is a bit of a concern, as I can't help thinking that they won't bother to contact me when it's my turn for the Covid jab 

[Dermotsgirl]

31 minutes ago, wowzz said:

So, if someone has terminal lung cancer, with only a few weeks to live, and contracts Covid, and unfortunately then dies, that person is classified as dying from CV19, whereas in reality lung cancer was the cause of death.

Surely, if the lung cancer was the primary cause of death, that would be on the death certificate ?  With Covid as a secondary cause, as it probably helped in the demise of this unfortunate person. 

 

 

[Dermotsgirl]

Incidentally, people who tested positive for Covid, but died more than 28 days after their test and had Covid on their death certificate aren't included in the Covid death statistics. 

[AnnieC]

1 minute ago, Dermotsgirl said:

Surely, if the lung cancer was the primary cause of death, that would be on the death certificate ?  With Covid as a secondary cause, as it probably helped in the demise of this unfortunate person. 

 

 

That's my experience pre-covid - the primary cause, then a secondary one if appropriate.

 

Have I imagined it, or are there two separate death rate figures, one where covid was the primary cause and one where it was mentioned on the death certificate as the secondary cause? Anyway, the horrendous number of excess deaths in 2020 is surely sufficient proof that covid is causing an enormous number of premature deaths, more than shown in the official numbers.

[Dermotsgirl]

Just now, AnnieC said:

That's my experience pre-covid - the primary cause, then a secondary one if appropriate.

 

Have I imagined it, or are there two separate death rate figures, one where covid was the primary cause and one where it was mentioned on the death certificate as the secondary cause? Anyway, the horrendous number of excess deaths in 2020 is surely sufficient proof that covid is causing an enormous number of premature deaths, more than shown in the official numbers.

Exactly, the excess deaths alone for 2020 show that there have been many more deaths than normal, and it would be astonishing if the vast majority of these excess deaths were not caused by by people catching Covid, what with a pandemic going on!